ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

1. Finn needed a scene that tells us what the character chooses to do moving forward. I think seeing him choose to join the Resistance instead of run (even after the damsel has been saved) would have made his journey complete. Finn also should have showed more fear when he was considering returning to Starkiller. He's scared, this is the last place he wants to be, but he pushes through it. Showing his fears would have made him overcoming them more powerful.

2. Poe needed to be in the movie either more or less. As is, it's awkward. The bromance with Finn goes too much emphasis for a relationship that means nothing to the story. So I would have done one of several things with the character:
-He could have been killed off when the tie fighter crashed, initially solidifying Finn's fears of the First Order but by the end motivating him to join the resistance. He keeps the jacket as a way to honor Poe and brave men like him.
-Or he could have been there with Finn the whole time. They could have flipped the Han/Leia dynamic. Rey could have been all swept up by the dashing Poe, but he shows no interest back. Meanwhile, it's the brave Finn who wins her over.
-He could have been the one to fly them into Starkiller, the only pilot talented enough to make the jump.

3. Rey acting all surprised when she bypasses the compressor. Reminds me of those smart kids in school who knew exactly what they were doing but acted all surprised when they got a good test result.

4. The treatment of light-speed, specifically the ending, where they have Rey enter and exit in the same scene without cutting to other characters. It makes the universe feel small. Ditto for the scene where Han explains how they're getting into Starkiller while they're already travelling at light-speed. This totally adds onto the other reasons why Star-killer felt like a cheap waste of space.

5. I don't think they should have started the movie where they did. The end of ROTJ and the original trilogy in general are totally cheapened in a couple ways.

First, the post ROTJ movie should not have Han, Luke, and Leia in the darkest part of their lives, all because of some dude who did some stuff off screen.

Second, the post ROTJ movie shouldn't have the Empire become more powerful than ever without getting into why. In an effort to recapture the flavor of A New Hope, the power dynamic between the Empire and Rebels feels repeated, whereas we should be in a different place. The opening crawl, or the movie itself should have drew attention to how the fall of the Empire would actually lead its remnants to put all their funds into arms. The First Order didn't feel different enough to the empire with regards to their place in the galaxy. The opening shot is again, emphasizing the scope of the First Order, whereas that should have been the moment to show how they're different. The desperation and fanaticism needed to be emphasized from the first frame. Hux's speech was not enough. They're nutty loyalists, turning to desperate measures, stealing babies, etc. It would have been a different brand of evil.

Ultimately however I would have started the movie earlier with Snoke joining the order, saving them, and by the third movie, after making ground, they have Starkiller. Meanwhile, the republic should be dealing with new kinds of problems in the wake of the Empire's fall, lawlessness, unchecked capitalism, etc. Maybe have it revealed that the Empero would kill all other dark force users (or locked them up or something), but now, with no one to keep them in check, they've been allowed to run wild in the galaxy, Snoke being top dog (the new challenge for the new Jedi Order).

Without showing these things unfold (the Empire recovering, another Sith lord), the movie treats them as foregone conclusions, and that just cheapens all of it.

 

I thought it was weird how Rey had no body hair. I mean, really, no leg hair? Or armpit hair?

 

Your post ROTJ analysis is spot on. TFA just felt so unnatural in terms of progression.

 

nailed it.

 

The Force is smooth with that one.

 

I'm glad after a year someone finally said this. So I wouldn't have to.

She must be scavenging razor blades and toiletry items too.

 

Confirmed. She's the daughter of Shave Palpatine.

 

Since it doesn't appear to have been said yet...12 X-wings attack SKB at the end and 7 survive to return to D'Qar. But during the battle in the atmosphere, they say that they've lost half their fleet (so 6) before losing at least two more later (R1 in space, Ello Asty in the trench), therefore losing 8 in total. This film fails at maths. Unwatchable!

 

A New Hope remake is watchable IMHO.

 

I think a lot more than 12 attacked the base.

 

I wish this move was more unique.

While I enjoyed it, I disliked the to many connections to ANH.

Here are some of the things I would have preferred.

No Resistance. I know the makers were trying to emulate the OT era Rebellion, but seeing a New Republic Military would have been preferred. They could still have OT similarities such as new X wings, etc.

The First Order is not as powerful with No death star wannabe. It shows they are not on the same level as the original Empire. Fine with a new type of stormtrooper, but I also wish we saw some Imperial droids designed as soldiers (very different then CIS ones). Would go to show that the First Order has less manpower then the Empire, forcing them to use more droids, though not on the CIS level.

Some kind of other powerful weapon that isn't a planet killer. Maybe a bio weapon that can spread fast and wipe out populations on planets.

Wish we saw more of the workings of the New Republic. Sure it may give some people flashbacks to the prequels, but if done well, it could have benefited the film.

Not have the entire NJO wiped out. Have Kylo Ren and Co devastate Luke's Order, but don't call Luke the last Jedi. He is still the most powerful since the few surviving students would not be at his level.

 

- Biggest problem is Rey being a Mary Sue. She has all good qualities of Luke, Han and Leia with no flaws. Supposed to have lived her whole life in the desert as a scavenger yet has perfect skin, hair and makeup. She's just another Disney princess. Girrll powerr!

- Finn the trained soldier runs from scavenger girl. Can't fly a ship, panicks in battle while Rey is calm. Cheers the death of Troopers while knowing they're victims like him. Way too much cheesy humor which doesn't fit the backstory. Red-herring for Rey.

- Han is now a deadbeat dad and 70 year old smuggler. Luke has left everyone in the lurch and gone into exile. Really? This is the guy who faced Palpatine and Vader alone.

- No explanation of the general state of the galaxy. How did FO become so powerful and how did the rebellion collapse?

- Why are they still using 30 year old ships? Why do Troopers still have the same weak armour? Where is the tech progress?

- Skb. LOL.

Can't belive this was praised so much by critics.

 

Amen brother! They made her perfect just because she's a girl.

 

Oh don't start that pal. Her gender has nothing to do with her OPness. Plenty of male characters are like that too..Bond for example. Mary Sue, Gary Stu.

 

The issue with so much of that stuff Alexander for me really comes back to the kind of film I think TFA is, to me its so very much the Abrams formula from Trek which means that outside of the very early stages it really doesn't have the ambition to be cinema on the level of the OT anymore than his Trek films have the ambition to be on the level of Wrath of Khan.

That style for me is above everything else focused on keeping the audience entertained from moment to moment and I think that does tend to mean that characters end up as much more archetypical, hence Rey becomes a kickass babe and Finn becomes a comedy sidekick.

I think that makes a lot of the praise easier to understand as well as I think a lot of similar films from the likes of Marvel have also tended to be overpraised.

 

Rey is like when you get the cheat code in a video game and it gives you all the power-ups instantly and you just sail through , but you quickly realise it's defeated the fun of the game : learning how to get good at it .

.

 

I love this movie much more now than I did at first. When looking at it as the type of movie it really is, a chase movie, it really is so much better, and the fast pace doesn't bother me. I still think the movie becomes way too unfocused in the third act. The movie was about finding Luke, not blowing up the superweapon. I would have moved the the third act to Luke's planet, where everyone who was after the map meet up and fight. Would feel like a more fitting ending.

 

What a ridiculous policy. It's a valid criticism.

 

Except it really isn't valid criticism, as they're in-film examples that contradict the supposed model... same too for this 'Rey is god mode cheat' nonsense and the TFA has nothing new argument. All demonstrably false.

 

non-valid. there are policies here that i disagree with but the mods decide on it to keep the board running better.

 

But it really is a valid criticism in many respects and it's a criticism that's applied to multiple films across multiple genres that feature similar characters. This just reeks of PC nonsense. If it were a male character being criticized for being overpowered I doubt the mods would crackdown on terminology used to express that.

 

If it were a male character, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. Gary Stu is only ever used to justify that description of a female character (ie, "I'm not sexist, I think that male guy is a Gary Stu too!"). And we're also only really using this term for Rey because her competence goes into the sacred ground of the Force (see Jyn in RO, who's far more competent and also has no weaknesses). You'll never hear kids or casual fans talk about Rey this way.

 

The policy means that you are forced (shock! Horror!) to articulate your issues with Rey instead of using poorly defined catch-alol terms which add nothing to the discussion.

Here's some things that you can do to make sure you get understood and get to communicate freely:

* think "I think Rey is a Mary-Sue"
* think "what parts of Rey's character make me think that she fits my definition of the term?"
* post about those bits of Rey's character that you don't think work, without using a term that is used differently by different people, and allows *some* people to hide gendered criticism behind a cliche