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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by BretHart, Dec 17, 2015.

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  1. WookieeShampoo

    WookieeShampoo Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 28, 2015
    Han´s freighter, the tractor at the outpost, the first order landing craft and the resistance transporter are new too.

    I´m 50/50 on this, keeping the main combat ships as updated versions is good for continuity and signals that there was a period of peace (=few investments in military) in between EP6 and EP7 which reaffirms the end of the OT, but of course some new models would be nice too. In my opinion the way they handled it is ok for TFA because most of the plot played on planets and the film was not really focused on space battles, this could be something they kept for EP8.
     
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  2. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    There are lots of new ship designs/ flying vehicles in TFA, aside from the remodeled TIEs, SDs and X-Wings.

    1. First Order troop transport/ lander
    2. Kylo's shuttle
    3. Rey's tractor/ speeder
    4. The "quad jumper" that gets blown up on Jakku
    5. Han's freighter
    6. Resistance trooper transport/ lander

    And why are you comparing trilogies (that had three films worth of ships) to ONE film? That's absurd. We still have two films left in the ST...
     
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  3. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 4, 2016
    There are a few new designs there but I think the bigger issue is that for me outside of SKB and Kylo's shuttle they don't make much impact. A lot of the objection I had to the opening "AT-ST! AT-ST! AT-ST!" tirade of the RLM review was that I felt it was actually criticism that would have been much better directed at TFA the year before. The majority of the designs that are featured most heavily in TFA tend to be those revived from the OT plus it feels less like an attempt to bring back a setting than it does to highlight a handful of the best known elements from it like the Falcon, X-wings, Tie's and Storm Troopers that are I think constantly played for nostalgia.

    In RO I think theres much of attempt to play up the more original aspects, you look for example at the mocked AT-ST appearance for example and its only featured for about 5 seconds whist the much longer scene just beforehand features the new Imperial tank. The same with the U-wing, Krennics shuttle, a couple of new Rebel battleships plus most obviously a lot of new location specific designs.

    Whilst I did expect some of the flaws TFA IMHO has I was hoping for a bit more new visually, Abrams original Trek for example does heavily redesign the Enterprise plus the Romulan mining ship is very original for the setting(if a little Bay Transformers inspired) as indeed is future Spocks ship and all feature heavily.
     
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  4. WookieeShampoo

    WookieeShampoo Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 28, 2015
    I think they had to bring back most designs because they are important in terms of connecting the universe, the PT does feature all known OT vehicles in different variations too, mostly as means of the Clone army.

    RO does focus a lot more on military vehicles and they have greater significance to the plot, there was just a year in between the films so this split might be intentional (Jedi focus for TFA, military forces for RO), some additional vehicles for TFA would not hurt though.

    Regarding locations TFA was innovative, Star Killer Base with its beautiful winter forrest is really different to Hoth for example and Maz´s castle is something completely new too. Desert planets aren´t exactly new of course but even with Jakku they managed to make it more interesting with them living in the remains of the battle.
     
  5. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 7, 2014
    The PT does not feature all OT vehicles, there are a handful that resemble some OT designs, but with major changes.

    There's no analogue to the Y-wing, A-Wing, B-Wing, TIE Fighter, just the ARC-fighters that resemble the X-wing, and the Star Destroyer esque ships.
     
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  6. WookieeShampoo

    WookieeShampoo Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 28, 2015

    A-Wing = Delta 7
    TIE fighter = Eta - 2
    Both are used by Obi Wan for example.

    There is also the republican cruiser in ep 1 with clear similarity to the blockade runners (tantive iv) for example.
     
  7. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 7, 2014
    Those are really tentative links though. The Delta barely resembles the A-wing at all, not in shape or role in the story. The wings of the Etas are designed to suggest an antecedent to to the TIE advanced, but the rest of the ship bares no other direct resemblance.

    Contrast to TFA, where there are TIEs and X-wings, with barely a colour change.
     
  8. WookieeShampoo

    WookieeShampoo Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 28, 2015
    How much they resemble each other is a different question from the designs being used to connect the universe.

    To me its visible that the ships were designed to expand the line of each of this types intentionally, of course they had to respect the movie language connected with the fractions. The Republic is in transformation and all is somehow merged together by Palpatine´s manipulations, so the designs hint strongly at the Empire but also at the Rebels/Jedi-friendly forces. To have a Jedi pilot a pure TIE lookalike as personal ship would feel wrong, while the foreshadowing of a 'half TIE' even enhances how blind they are to the viewer familiar with the OT.

    In TFA the Resistance and the FO are direct offsprings off the Empire and the Rebellion so a more direct transition makes sense in terms of movie language.
     
  9. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 20, 2007
    I can't stand the majority of FO trooper designs... I hope these get rectified moving forward. Also the Resistance soldiers designs are unmemorable.
     
  10. Darth Pig

    Darth Pig Jedi Knight star 2

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    Feb 21, 2016
    I agree with the evolution line. It was clear and obvious that Lucas did this. And I liked it because he wanted to enrich the world by showing the transitional effects of time.

    And this is why the "no new ships" line is trotted out. Not because there aren't, but because there are clear ships that have not evolved that should have. The argument about peace time is illogical. If peace halted technological advancement, then the implicit capitalist economy that is portrayed in Star Wars would only be complete with unambitious individuals (which is not shown at all). Fact is, if there is money to be made, people will make it. Improving tech is one thing that will occur because there is a buck to be made. Both sides should have evolved ships. To say otherwise is to imply both fighters are optimised (and we know they even altered in ROTJ with the tie-interceptor).

    Abrams completely stuffed this up. The designs could easily be similar, yet distinctively different enough to show that 30 years have elapsed. It is pretty obvious his fanboy admiration for ANH impeded the creativity that made it on screen.
     
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  11. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 4, 2016
    To me the problem isn't that he comes across as "fanboyish" but rather that he comes across as too cynical in picking out a small amount of the most iconic elements of ANH casual viewers would recognise and recycles them onscreen as much as possible. Rogue One I think becomes across as more of a film made by a lover of SW it the way he looks to recreate the full setting rather than just lifting elements of it.

    I do like the idea of "reintroducing" SW but honestly I think Abrams outside of about 5 mins with Rey at the start didn't really do this, rather he looked to throw as much nostalgia at the audience as possible in 2 hours. I think starting the story with Rey on Jakku with the events of the OT as this distant legend could have been very effective if thinsg had been handled more slowly. Say spend the first 15 mins or so focusing on Rey as a junker among the Imp wreckage, make the environment harsher and more fully realised and have small hints at her history and force abilities. Perhaps have her meet Han and have him more disillusioned and washed up then have Kylo turn up and threaten her(as she somehow has the key to finding Luke) with Finn rebelling then the two of them escaping with Han, have that take up most of the first hour rather than about 25 mins.
     
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  12. Cmndr_Thire

    Cmndr_Thire Jedi Master

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    Jun 20, 2005
    Totally agree, was so massively disappointed that the FO troopers looked like they were wearing fresh off the shelf cheap plastic cosplay armor whilst waving those utterly unconvincing kiddie looking white plastic "blasters" around like an elongated toys 'r' us advert.

    Compared to the gritty in-universe realism and intensity of the PT & OT trooper variants i was tempted to think that it was all down to the lack of GLs influence, then we see the awesome Shore/Tank/Deathtrooper armors & equipment in RO and it seems blatantly evident, to me at any rate, that Gareth Edwards has a genuine level of respect and appreciation for in-universe trooper aesthetics that dwarfs anything that JJ & Pegg etc could even dream of, really wish Edwards had been given the TFA directors job now.

    The FO troopers toy-ish appearance was such a sad and missed opportunity, and yet another element that I feel compounds TFAs bizzare lack of genuine/semi-believable inventiveness in so many key areas.
     
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  13. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 20, 2007
    Brutal - but true :cool: Also the stormtroopers all looked (sorry to be this guy) ...fat in that armour.

    I quite liked TFA when it came out...but you can't lie to yourself - I have watched it once since owning it on blu-ray. RO made me realise how far off the mark TFA was - especially in the design department! Imagine if the Deathtrooper design was the regular FO stormtrooper! Wow.
     
  14. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    RLM mocked the brief appearance of the AT-ST? What the hell for?

    And I agree with you that RO went a more interesting route, visually, than TFA did.
     
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  15. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Mocked it...? They made a song about it. They mocked it in horribly pitched melody. As to why? They are miserable neckbeards who hate anything Star Wars that was made after 1983.
     
  16. WookieeShampoo

    WookieeShampoo Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 28, 2015

    I was thinking about the real world with the peace time argument, there is definitely a stark contrast between wartime and peacetime in military evolvement. Of course it depends on how much a country values its military etc. ...
     
  17. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 26, 2009
    Here's a nitpick: Why does Poe take a regular X-Wing to meet with Lor San Tekka on Jakku instead of his customized black and orange X-Wing, which apparently has specialized capabilities like sensor scattering paint? Is it because his personal X-Wing is more optimized for combat situations as opposed to reconnaissance?
     
  18. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    It's some reason like that I believe. Check out Poe Dameron: Flight Log for the answer.
     
  19. Avnar

    Avnar Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 20, 2007
    The good thing about only watching the films and having no knowledge of extra material is that the little things just make sense - Poe got a new ship because his was destroyed on Jakku! :cool:
     
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  20. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 26, 2009
    This is a good point, but even without knowing material from other Star Wars media, it seems he's had that black and orange X-Wing for a while.
     
  21. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 24, 2013
    Yeah...I finally watched some of their reviews after watching RO, and I was blown away about how terrible they are at reviewing movies. They don't go into movies to enjoy them, they go into movies to analyze them. That is no way to watch a movie on your first showing. They really just come off as *******s.
     
  22. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    There's nothing wrong with analyzing a film. It's just that RLM's analysis of RO is shallow and puerile. To me, it's clear that this was an attempt at getting back to their prequel-era cynicism, and it backfired. Forced. No pun intended.
     
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  23. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 24, 2013
    There is something very wrong with analyzing a film on first viewing. That isn't how films are meant to be watched. If that is the only way you watch the film then you cannot give a proper recommendation for a film. There are times when watching a film to analyze it is perfectly ok, that time is not on the first viewing. If you are, you are doing it all wrong.
     
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  24. Gigoran Monk

    Gigoran Monk Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 2, 2016
    I also prefer to let a film wash over me, and then judge whether or not it succeeded in doing that. From an artistic and intuitive perspective, rather than a coldly logical and analytical perspective. So on a personal level, I agree. That said, it's OK to then go back and assess the elements that make up a good (or a poor) film. And RLM's assessment is about as shallow as that of the biggest meathead in town. Just masked by humor.

    But frankly, I don't see RLM as legitimate critics. And I don't think they do either. They are comedians. And in that context, they often succeed. But the RO reviews fail because the humor seems forced, and not quite grounded in reality. Feels like they are reviewing a different film.
     
  25. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014

    Red Letter Media don't know what to do with new Star Wars. Whatever one's opinion of Plinkett, they tapped into a lot of people's feelings with the TPM review in particular, and that's what made their name.
    Now, with new Star Wars, they have already been beaten to the valid criticism by fans on message boards, and it's palpable that they don't like that they actually quite like the new films, because they want to bottle lightning twice.

    They'd have been better off resting the Plinkett character until the new canon gives us a real stinker
     
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