ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

Stylistically, there are massive differences between Rogue One and the OT. There are also big differences in all the OT films.

 

We might not see much of Luke visually but its obvious that the trailer is mostly focused on him featuring his voice across much of it hinting at his characters development, we get much less hitting at Rey and Finns roles.

My point was that even though you were attempting to argue against "member berries" you point ultimately seemed to be in favour the criticism.

Whilst Rogue One does obviously tell a very different story to the OT the way it treats the SW universe feels the same to me, carrying on and adding to a rich environment rather than mining nostalgia for certain parts of that environment. Of course there were some parts of the film that did this but really they were quite limited where as during TFA I constantly felt like it was being thrown at me "remember the Falcon? remember Han? remember X-wings? remember lightsabers?", to watch that film without having seen the OT just wouldn't make much sense for me, not just in terms of story but style understanding why certain elements where being pushed so prominently.

 

That's because X Wings, Falcon, Han, etc hadn't been in a Star Wars movie for over thirty years. There's nothing remarkably different about their appearance in TFA compared with RO (where applicable) except that TFA came out a year before RO. So the feeling you're getting seems to be just about placing significance on having the capacity of noticing them. I say that because you haven't identified any tangible difference that could describe how you get that feeling.

What exactly wouldn't make sense to you? What is being pushed prominently for which no justification is self contained within TFA?

The Falcon is introduced in IV as if its notoriety should be known galaxy wide before the audience or the main character sets eyes on it. It's handled in TFA the same way, only this time a section of the audience is in on the joke. So it can't be that.

 

I agree with this sentiment to some degree (and I am a fan of TFA, I just liked Rogue One more). I actually think the same issues exist in the PT. "Remember C3PO, hey Anakin built him!" "Remember Boba Fett, here he is as a kid" "Remember Chewbacca? Oh, he actually knew Yoda"

 

Wasn't crazy with another huge planet-exterminating base in a Star Wars movie, but it doesn't come close to ever ruining the movie for me. That's it, my only nitpick. I love everything else about this movie. This movie gave me what is now my favorite SW character so I can easily forgive another damn Death Star.

 

I could have written this comment myself, I agree with it so much.

 

Yeah I'd agree we do get some of this in the PT as well although I think its more common in TFA and I'd say more overt, its not just featuring Han and the like but the way the camera dwells on certain elements only seems to make sense if you already know them. Indeed the more minimalistic style of Abrams seems specifically geared on focusing on such elements, if were seeing the Falcon or an X-wing in a battle for example it remains locked in "3rd person" position a lot rather than moving though a wider scene.

I can certainly understand people enjoying TFA and it is better made than the PT for me but to me its style is self limiting, it could only ever be a retro thrill ride reintroduction to SW. To see this held up as the promised land for SW and blockbusters in general is disappointing for me which is why Rogue One felt like such a positive, SW aiming higher again even if that comes with some risk.

 

When it first came out my biggest problem with TFA was that it didn't give us enough of a political set up. I got that they wanted to get away from the politics heavy prequels but I felt they needed to give us a little bit more to explain the relationships between the Resistance, the Republic and the First Order. Especially when they blow up Hosnian Prime, we needed to feel more invested in that.

However the more I view the film the more Rey becomes an issue for me. I like the character and loved everything on first watch but on subsequent watches I really get the criticisms of how over powered she is. She's the best pilot, she has the Force, she's untrained but turns the tables on Kylo Ren who's been trained by both Luke and Snoke, masters the mind trick with no training, at the end looks like she might have inherited the Falcon with Chewie as her co-pilot and she looks set to receive Jedi training from Luke. It just feels a bit excessive when you add it all up.

That said, TLJ can address all of that. We're bound to learn more of the political situation in the fallout of Hosnian Prime's destruction and I'm really hopeful that Rey's seeming overpowered Force abilities will become a factor as well. Not necessarily being tempted by/falling to the dark side but maybe an over confidence because of how easy everything seems to come to her, something that can set her up for a failure she will have to overcome.

I guess my only other issue would be how Finn goes from turning against the FO because of his friend's death to teaming up with Poe (who killed said friend) and blasting Stormtroopers away in the space of a few minutes. I get needs must and all that but it just feels a little off after a few re-watches.

I would have loved an on screen reunion between the classic characters but I get how that wouldn't have worked with the story they were telling. That said, I still can't believe that post release we still haven't got a behind the scenes or publicity images of all the classic characters together again in costume. I mean surely that has to exist somewhere!

 

I'm not sure whether it's just the way you wrote the sentence but Finn doesn't turn against the FO because his friend is killed, he turns because he refused to kill innocents for them (and specifically says so later) and implicitly knew that he would be killed or brainwashed if he did not get away. The answer to why he's shooting up the docks is the simplest motivation of them all, self-preservation. They're shooting at him.

 

I pretty much agree with the bolded. TFA is a good entertaining movie, but I would be pretty disappointed if JJ had been kept on to make the next 2 films. Rogue One did aim higher and was indeed better.

 

"The promised land for SW and blockbusters in general"?

Is that canon?

 

Yeah I didn't phrase that the best. The innocents was definitely the big turning point but just before that his fellow trooper was killed (by Poe) and gave him the bloody mark on his helmet. This was the first thing to shake him before the order to wipe out the village. He went from being shaken by his comrade's death to blasting them away in minutes. Like you say, the realisations of how evil the FO is and self preservation go some way to covering it but it was still a big leap (more in attitude than actions because, yeah, self preservation)

 

The bloodied comrade is just the first shock in Finn's first combat experience. The defining part of his breakdown is his realisation of what being a trooper actually entails. He chooses in that moment not to be trooper.

His journey from that point on will fail unless he's prepared to take on his former comrades who choose to remain subservient to a clearly unjust regime.

 

The problem I had with TFA is I didn't feel a connection to any of the new characters. I also felt that it was too goofy and didn't take itself seriously enough. In general, I also felt the writing was mediocre to below average.

I still enjoyed it and would rate it 7/10, but I'm hopeful The Last Jedi will drastically improve the new saga trilogy overall.

 

I had similar problems with Finn as I did with Anakin in the PT. The turn was too sudden and hard to swallow in both cases. I also don't think Finn acted much like I'd imagine someone indoctrinated since brith to be a Stormtrooper would act. I did mostly enjoy the character despite that, probably due to the good acting.

 

agree , Finn just switches , there's no character development to it . It could've been interesting - had Finn and Poe been stuck with each other and had to survive their trek with Finn coming to realise that what he's been indoctrinated in was wrong etc.
but as with so much in this picture people just do things because 'its in the script' .

 

Why invent a scenario, with Finn and Poe stuck with each other on a trek through the desert (which needs to be set up), in order to have Finn be talked into realising he's on the wrong side, when the film already has a powerful visual way of getting to the same result far more effectively and efficiently?

I love Enemy Mine, but you're talking about a story that requires lot of investment. And what exciting intellectual arguments they'll have!

 

This is more of a question than a complaint:

If one of Snoke's primary goals in finding BB8 was to keep the completed map out if the Resistance's hands,why did Kylo feel that capturing Rey was sufficient? Perhaps Kylo believed that if he had the map he could get to Luke first, but this was never articulated, and it seemed like a stupidly risky move.

 

I think it is that Snoke and Kylo have different goals. Hux says that Snoke's orders are find BB-8 if they can but destroy it if they must. Snoke seems content as long as Luke can't return. Kylo wants to find Luke and destroy him. Keeping him stranded isn't good enough. If he can get the missing map piece from Rey he can find Luke before the Resistance does. Also, Kylo has no reason to believe the Resistance has the first part of the map like he does, since the current explanation is that R2-D2 downloaded it on the Death Star (or so I read).

Just my 2 cents anyway.

 

Bhodi was Finn handled better. still not perfect, but Bhodi at least had an arc.

 

trek 09 is still Abrams best film. and its not even a great film by any means.

 

well it doesn't , thats my point .

 

But it does.

 

Then think of both Rey and BB-8 being shot at by ships on Jakku...illogical if you want the map.