ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

I don't think he's upset about his friend dying as much as he just realizes this could very well happen to him if he continues being a Stormtrooper. He may also be horrified at the thought of that happening to him as a result of having to obey commands from leaders who are inflicting this reign on the galaxy.

 

Unfortunately that is a problem with several of the Star Wars films. TFA is far from the biggest offender.

 

well he is a soldier , I rather think he knew what that involves . But sure - yeah the reality of the 'horrors of war ' struck him , but again this doesn't fit his attitude of whooping and cheering about killing his 'brothers-in-arms' .

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Yeah I mentioned that in the TFA complaints thread about how weird it was he went from the death of his FO bud being the catalyst of his fleeing that organization to him blowing him to smithereens in order to escape….even when he didn't need to in order to escape.

In fact, it would have been cool to see Finn hesitate gunning them down when Poe orders him to do so.

Finn is conflicted! Character growth!

 

It seems some of you haven't seen this film in so long your memory of it is fading and you're complaining about an alternative strawman version of the movie. The death of his FO bud isn't the reason Finn leaves the FO. It's an example of his compassion that marks him out to us. If he doesn't return fire in the hangar then their TIE get's blown up (we've literally just seen that happen to the X-wing) so is absolutely necessary, and then Poe specifically points out that they won't escape without destroying some of the guns. Not sure where you're coming from there. Further, there's no evidence that he's killing anyone in those gun emplacements, which is the only point he's 'ordered' to fire by Poe and the only point he expresses any joy. And besides, the whole 'isn't this silly' argument rests on the basis that the FO military operates with the kind of close knit community that our own real-life militaries have, which is entirely assumed and not supported by any evidence we have. No other stormtrooper stops to help another. Clearly there's a different relationship between Finn and whoever it is who goes down, a relationship that he didn't share with others that were falling on the same battlefield. He's not 'friends' with anyone else. It's really that simple. It's like saying that someone who sees their prison cellmate killed wouldn't kill other prisoners.

But I don't think anyone's actually listening to these rebuttals, as we've been hearing this for the last 18 months.

 

We are given an impression that he's compassionate when his pal dies and then not long after he's gunning down his fellow soldiers , where's the compassion then ? I didn't see him showing any remorse over it , and he's grown up with these guys , so he'd know what they've been thru , but no , 'Mr. Compassion' just blasts 'em to bits and then it's all "Whoop! Whoop!"

 

Star Wars movies don't have a lot of depth.

We aren't even told why Finn is a Stormtrooper, his character like most others is entirely reactive to events.

 

That scene felt weird to me watching the first time, and still feels little weird to me now. I have to make myself a headcanon explanation where Finn hated his fellow troopers and sometimes wanted to kill them. But since we weren’t given any information on his relationship with the FO soldiers in the movie, and instead, we were only given a scene of his comrade dying in his arms and Phasma being… a normal captain, I guess?, harsh on the rules but still willing to defend him, it’s really weird to see him having fun killing his comrades after such a quick switch.

There was also very little impact in the scene where Finn has his revenge against Phasma. I know we were supposed to be rooting for the heroes there, but I only felt pity for Phasma. She was not portrayed as a character I would wish to end in the garbage chute.

 

Exactly. Finn was a poorly written character. They didn't bother giving him enough scenes where we take him seriously. Too much humour at his own expense, which didn't match his background. Humour should've been mostly from Rey, not the guy trained from birth as a soldier. His scene with Phasma at the end should've been serious but they again played it for laughs.

 

I never cared about Finn killing stormtroopers.

What was really jarring was the ridiculous level of instant massive trauma we see from Finn/Boyega, so very early in the film, upon his very introduction.

It's just so very jarring...but, okay, fine. He's melodramatically traumatized the first moment we see him. Surely, you'll follow up by making this more understandable? Nope, everything you establish about his background and surroundings makes it less understandable, more of a clash. Oh, okay then. Thanks for the disconnect.

 

I don't know that I am putting a finger on something specific, but what you have said makes strange the just deserts that she is given. As far a I am aware, the crime she commited, as an officer subordinate to a superior, was to order to fire on disarmed practitioners of what I guess at that time is regarded as a cult. Who had physically resisted in self-defense. In a context of the Empire which would seek wherever possible to take prisoners and gain knowledge. And so the in-universe problem of the First Order having a policy of destroying information by killing disarmed combatants is then unsympathetically loaded onto this female characters' shoulders, and the movie suggests, simperingly twee, that a garbage chute resolution is not too bad, too unjust, fair enough, sufficiently fitting, possibly poetic, and we'll get a side of elbow rib jabbing nuclear powered wink. It is funny because it is unexpected. It is unexpected because standard assumptions about just desserts with auxiliary/lieutenant male villains who have been demonstrated to be even partly responsible for executions generally do not in an action movie get awarded a free pass Heisenberg demise (plot armor that villains do for James Bond).

As far as I am aware, there are no Heisenberg repreives for a lieutenant/non-apex villain in previous star wars. (I reserve "Star Wars" as a franchise property and "star wars" as the cultural phenomenon.) They are resolved unambiguously (just desserts) or they get a chance to give a parting shot health report to assure us they will return next episode. SW77 Vader is subordinate to Tarkin and gets a marquee to tune in next episode. Tarkin is subordinate to the Emperor and is introduced and resolved in one episode. ESB Piett and Fett each get an intro (and Fett a parting shot) in one episode and a resolution in the next. Jango is introduced and resolved in one episode. Maul is, in the halcyon days of yore of 1999, introduced and unambiguously resolved in one episode. Duuko gets a parting shot. (ROTS crispy Anakin gets the faintest whiff of a Heisenberg reprieve from Kenobi's POV but he is for the viewer unambiguously given a positive health report and a marquee.) (SW77 scoundrel (sub-classification of villain) Han Solo is given a parting shot but atones inside 15 minutes screen time.)

Disney is playing with their peas and carrots trying to find a tone that is not alienating to their new demographics in the undiscovered country of how to serve a female lieutenant villain her just desserts for complicity in a regime that violates the unconcious rules of war codified in the Hague and Geneva conventions. By rules of thumb laid down in previous star wars, a male version of Phasma would receive a parting shot, or marquee, or an unambiguous just desserts resolution. The ignominy of the just dessert is irrelevant. Fett's just desserts is the ignominy of the Sarlac pitt with a burp, very similar to a trash compactor in its biochemical odium, but validated or sweetened by a finality that viewers of SW77 know is not assured merely by the sound byte, "trash compactor".

Will I give Disney a free pass? No. They hobbled the character of Phasma by giving it/her a Heisenberg repreive, and not allowing her to have a solid resolution to her complicity. Right now, having recently watched the second season premier of a show called Dark Matter, where a complicit female lieutenant villain is decisively and unapologetically executed (resolved) by a female lieutenant hero, I am quite certain that it does not require the societal advancement of 2017 or 2016 to have given the Phasma of 2015 a result, a character payment, that was consistent with her male peers. She suffered a pay gap in how her character was respected.

 

After Finn's intro with the bloody helmet scene I thought we were in for one of the most serious character arcs in series history. Five minutes later he's drinking out of an animal's trough in a scene that's played for laughs. It was very jarring. Jar Jarring.

 

I partially agree. Would have liked to see more of Phasma, and a less cartoony end for her. The dynamic between her and Finn is undercooked, and she's essentially a glorified extra.

But she ordered the rounding up and murder of a bunch of unarmed people on Jakku. I'd say she deserves a garbage chute for that.

 

Kylo ordered. She was just following orders. She had no will of her own. A character like that is suitable for an unceremonious death like pretty much every stormtrooper character in Star Wars, but it does not carry enough emotion or hatred from the audience to warrant a “pay-back” scene with the prospect of a horrible death joke.

 

True (though she is a human, and does have a will of her own). The "pay back" was definitely a damp squib, though, as she was essentially a non-entity for most of the film.

 

Finn never chose to be a soldier....and there's nothing wrong with him having made friends during his formative years. He's been doing what he can do to get by, but he knows what the First Order is capable of, and takes the first opportunity he can to get away.

And as for gunning down his fellow soldiers, he's found a new reason to live - protecting his new friends. He had to choose one side over the other...why would he choose the First Order at this point?

 

Hasn't it pretty much been admitted that Finn being an ex Storm Trooper is an idea that came very late in the scripting? wasn't he intended to be a non military character like a freighter worker or something similar?

I think that would explain a lot of the mismatch between the setup he gets early in the end and the way the character he played from the moment he meets Poe onwards. I don't really get traumatised child solider from him at all, I do however get the sense of someone in over his head not really used to combat and having to wing it getting a bit carried away when he does have success.

 

Do you assume he thinks all the troopers are just monstrous ? Is it likely that he has no regard for them at all ? Soldiers don't have a lot of choice in what they do I'm assuming that he would understand well what those troops had been thru : drafted , trained , he's grown up with them , its natural to assume that there would be some bonds formed , some camarederie .

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Disclaimer: I like TFA okay, but I am in a bad mood and feel like saying something negative, lol.

The fight scene between Rey and Kylo is dumb. Yes, Kylo is "injured by the super-ultra-mega-powerful bowcaster blast," but it doesn't seem to be affecting him that much other than the occasional self-inflicted gut-punch. Even if it gave Rey just enough of the upper hand in a lightsaber duel, it shouldn't have prevented him from using his force powers. What force powers? Oh, nothing major, just his ability to freeze people and/or render them unconscious. And even if his injuries were somehow so great that he couldn't pull that off, the fight scene is still lame. It kind of takes the scariness out of the main villain of the trilogy (assuming Snoke doesn't do much legwork) if he gets beaten by an untrained force-sensitive who is using a lightsaber for the first time. Now, if Rey beats him later, it's nothing special.

 

Well, maybe Rey doesn't beat him later. Maybe Kylo owns the next duel, much like Dooku in AOTC and Vader in TESB. Maybe, in EpIX, they even become allies and so, TFA is the only movie where she beats him.

 

I second the thought of Ren winning the second fight. If he loses again after that horrible TFA duel, then that makes him one of the weakest villains in the franchise. Also, I think there shouldn't be any redemption for Kylo, with him killing Han and all. Having him be a villain till the last instead of another case of Vader would take away a sense of uniqueness from him.

It's just my opinion, anyway.