ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

I don’t have a problem with the monsters per se – I don’t like the design but I don’t hate it either – it’s more that the scene itself that could’ve served some purpose other than mindless action sequence. It wasn’t there to build on Rey and Finn’s bond (that was the escape from Jakku scene), or their bond with Han, and wasn't produced in a way that had me at the edge of my edge like a good action sequence that is only there for the thrill.

It also felt disconnected from the main plotline, a bit too much like "side adventure" but one without a purpose or a destination. The only part that felt connected was the gang leader recognizing BB-8 and informing the FO, but even that feels unnecessary since we have that random lady from the bar also informing the FO. In fact, the fact that BB-8 was recognized there makes Han’s decision to bring the droid to a bar full of criminals later even odder, and it ultimately adds no weight to the supposed urgency of their situations.

Even the action itself is not interesting to watch. Not sure if it's the camera work or the uninspiring CGI, but they don’t *feel* like exciting threats to me. I think that the movie would have been better served had they just cut the Rathtar part altogether and used that time instead to build on Han and Rey’s supposed father/daughter-like relationship (which they barely had).

So long story short, the Rathtars scene feels pointless to me, the action is boring, it brought nothing new to the table (GotGII's version of "fighting space monsters with tentacles" on the other hand, was presented in a way that was totally new to me, and more fun to watch) and it’s one of the scenes I always feel compelled to skip when watching the movie.

 

I can see where you're coming from. It's interesting though because I really enjoy that scene and I feel very similar to how I feel when watching other SW action scenes involving monsters or aliens. It's just fun, with a feeling of danger, but not terrifying, and has the right dose of humor and perfect reactions from every character to the on coming threat. haha it's great. I even thought the burp was a nice touch - gave homage to the Sarlaac in ROTJ. The angle shots, the sounds, everything. Just feels Star Wars to me. And I felt that experience did have an impact on Rey and Finn's relationship. It seemed to create more of a bond between them. It reveals for the first time that Rey really cares about Finn. You can see and feel her urgency in wanting to help and save him from harm. Although, I do agree that the Rathtars could have looked a little less CGI.

 

I enjoyed TFA. I think it really depends on your taste.

 

I agree with the rathtar scene being.. rather.. pointless. Not only did it take screentime from potential bonding, I feel there wasn't enough bonding between characters period. Did Finn even know ANYTHING about Rey? They never just sat down and a talk. Finn doesn't know a single thing about her by the end of the movie, not even her being left on Jakku or waiting for her family.

I think Han and Finn could have had a moment together on Takodana after the First Order takes them into custody. As it stands now they get captured and then saved in the next shot. What if the Stormtroopers had them in custody for a while, and they sat down and talked. Han asks what his deal with and how he recognized his Stormtrooper boots and whatnot. Finn tells him how he's running away from the FO and Han has a moment of realization that he's doing the exact same himself, which in turns inspires him to stop running and to get back into the fight, disarms the Trooper and kicks some ass as the Resistance arrives.

 

The rathtar scene is a brief visit to the world of pulp horror that's designed to make their escape from the pirates a bit more interesting. It's purpose is pretty much the same as that of the droid factory scene in AOTC.
Personally, I feel that the droid factory scene is more interesting to (re)watch, but I don't mind the rathtar scene. Especially if it's been a while since I saw it.

 

The rathtar scene seemed pointless like the entire movie

 

There's tentacle monster in TFA and Rogue One (+ in a new Disney movie but I'll not say which is), seems like it will be common

 

I get what you’re saying, but Rey and Finn had already bonded earlier, during the Jakku escape. She had also shown to care about him when she got all excited about him being a “Resistance” member. She was already willing to help him since Jakku. You take the rathars scene out and it doesn’t change one bit the development of their relationship on screen - in my opinion.

I don’t know, it could be that the rathtars scene originally served a purpose before they changed the script and had Rey/Finn getting along earlier than it was meant. From what I understood, the initial idea was for them to bicker like the OT3 and slowly bond through the threats they faced together like ANH. But when they changed the dynamics of Rey/Finn relationship, the trash compactor/monster scene equivalent became the escape from Jakku scene, which rendered the rathtars scenes kinda superfluous.

And removing the rathtars scene could have given more room for the other important relationship to develop (Rey and Han), while also making Han’s decision to bring BB-8 to Maz’s look less stupid if he was not aware that the FO and bounty hunters were searching for the droid.

That, also.

You got to see Luke and Han learning about each other before they slowly bonded through the perils they faced together. If Luke wanted Han to do something for him, he knew exactly how to convince him, and vice versa. They knew what drove the other, what the other believed or not, what the other was cocksure about or not. Which then made Han coming back to save him feel truly special because you believed in their friendship.

In TFA Rey and Finn instantly bonded upon the first danger they faced, and that was the basis of their relationship. I never got a sense that they knew each other. Which may have contributed to Finn coming back for her feeling instead more motivated by ulterior reasons.

Instead of having a stupid “you got a boyfriend?” line, we could’ve had a moment where they talked about parents for instance and learned what drove them (akin to Han and Luke’s discussion about the Force). Friendship is more convincing when we know characters know about each other almost as much as we know about them. Finn doesn’t even know why Rey wanted to go back to Jakku. Han on the other hand, always seemed to know why Luke did the things he did, because Luke was always upfront about his motivations – learning about the Force, saving the Princess, joining the Rebel Alliance. And vice-versa (Luke knew that saying the Princess had money would convince Han to help him).

Though to be frank, this is just a minor complaint/observation. I still like in general Finn/Rey in the movie. But I wished there was a bit more to it.

 

The movie was very good. However some scenes should have been more detailed. They would have done the movie a favour in using another 15 minutes to slow down some scenes and storylines.

 

I would have liked to have seen Coruscant, and would have liked a more vocal clarification that it wasn't toasted by Starkiller Base, that was a big "WTF" moment for me. Until, (like the no-life geek that I am) immediately jumped on wookiepedia and checked that it wasn't Coruscant. I breathed a breath of fresh air when I found out Courscant was still available for future films.

Just the barren feeling in general, say what you want about the PT, the society world building was epic. I did however appreciate the Pirate's with the Rantar scene, Jaku's scavenger setting, and Maz's seedy place. One of my only complaints about the OT (that is somewhat of a problem in TFA as well) is that aside from Mos Eisley, Jabba's Palace, and Cloud city, we never see the galaxy opened up and alive in a day-to-day manor.

 

I have an unfounded suspicion that it originally was Coruscant, and the "Hosnian system" line was added in reshoots either because Johnson or Trevorrow wanted to use Coruscant or because the Story Group didn't want Coruscant wiped out.

 

Pablo Hidalgo‏ @pablohidalgo 6 May 2016
@maribfcosta the capital hasn't always been on Hosnian Prime. The senate moves to different worlds like the Olympics, kinda.

(the person deleted her tweet but I believe they were talking about HanLeia apartament mentioned in Bloodline)


Pablo Hidalgo‏ @pablohidalgo 31 Dec 2015
Replying to @BanannaBich2014
@BanannaBich2014 the site of the capital isn't permanent. It started off on Chandrila, moved to different member worlds, and was on Hosnian

 

The Rathtars were the most interesting antagonists in the movie for me. So I guess my complaint is that they didn't get more screen time.

 

Did they also have Rey find out Finn was a Stormtrooper pretty much right away?

Instead they put that off until later as well as changing the chemistry from the building a bond to basically instant bond mentioned.

The thing about doing that is that then there is nowhere to go from there. For TFA to ANH it would be like Luke and Han being buddy buddy by the time they get leave Tatooine. Think how that would totally throw off the dynamic of the movie. In TFA it's just odd that Rey is upset by Finn leaving when she wants to leave as well and go back to Jakku.

 

Haha it's nice to see someone who likes them even more than I do! And a few others say they don't mind them. I realized though this may have been the wrong thread for me to make my original comment of how I feel about them.

 

MODified: You have already posted this video on here. And it has literally nothing whatsoever to do with this thread.

 

Lol this doesn't surprise me at all. I love it.

 

Yea I did. It being removed so quickly gave me a good chuckle.

 

What does stand out increasingly for me is that I think theres a fundamental mismatch between the Abrams/Marvel style of TFA and its casting choices that hark back to the previous SW. The modern blockbuster style for me is heavily dependant on having a cast who don't just play the drama well but bring a very high level of charisma/gravitas to the roles, selling the larger than life elements of the script and keeping the whole thing more grounded. Now Boyega is definitely a good character actor and there are moments Ridley I think shows she likely is as well but I just don't think either of them has the presence of sell the way Abrams wants to play the characters the way the likes of Downey Jnr, Chris Evans/Pine or Scarlet Johansson do. There are certainly a few effective moments but rather too many scenes where things just come across as rather bland and cheesey for me.

 

TFA looks nothing like any Marvel film I've seen.

The casting in TFA is as good as the fine Star Trek cast. And Abrams gets fine performances again.

The fact that they don't resemble Johanson, Downey, and Pratt kinda contradicts the Marvel style thing.

 

Visually I think its a bit inbetween the two, a lot of the look is obviously drawing heavily on the OT but the way its shot does I think tend more towards the simpler focus and more hyperactive. What I as talking about though was more the script/characterisation that I think clearly does look to play up metahumour and larger than life characters in a fashion similar to Abrams Trek films and Marvel. I suspect if TLJ has a strong dramatic plot the leads will be fine but for me they simply didn't have the charisma to pull off the style of TFA very effectively, that does I'd say tend to be something that comes with age/experience, Johansson in say the mid 00's was a good actress for example but I don't think she'd have been able to play the Black WIdow role as effectively as she does now.

 

I think people will be more forgiving of some of TFAs faults in the years to come.

Consider the size of the job at hand as well as the expectations of the fanbase and you've got a pretty daunting task.

I used to write scripts and I was always told that characters are everything. With Star Wars however, we have the unique situation of having to continue the arc of three of the most beloved characters in the history of cinema whilst simultaneously introducing brand new ones and ensure that we care about them. When you stop and ponder about that alone, then things like Rathtars and the functionality of SKB seem minuscule.

But make no mistake about it, Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo and BB8 are now very much a fabric of the Star Wars Universe. They're instantly recognisable and age huge followings - that's a testament to those behind TFA because most people wanted to see what happened to Luke and the rest of the Rebellion.

We were also given new worlds: Jakku, Takodana, Hosnian Prime, D'Qar, Ahch-to.

The Mythology? Interestingly, TFA is criticised for its story. Some say it's paper thin. A New Hope was a tight narrative. It's secret weapon however was its ability to build a story without having to visually exhibit it. The Force Awakens should be equally praised for the same reason. In one film, we find out the following:
- Han and Leia carried on their relationship,
- Han and Leia had a son but he was plagued by darkness.
- Luke tried to restart the Jedi order and began training younglings
- one of his students slaughtered the young Jedi.
- Luke exiled himself and supposedly went looking for the first Jedi Temple
- the First Order rose from the ashes of the Darkside
- Anakins light sabre was somehow recovered

All this happens off screen. The film has provided us with a solid foundation which I expect will provide an explosion of new mythology.

Of course there are problems with TFA but Like I said earlier on in my post, it's a film which I think we'll appreciate more in the years ahead and certainly when the trilogy is complete. Let's face it, A New Hope is a better film because of ESB and I expect the same to be true when TLJ is released in December.

 

That's a pretty ironic statement. It is very easy to argue that none of those planets were "new" in the slightest. Jakku is literally a renamed Tatooine, complete with "sinking fields" and "Goazon badlands" not unlike the dune sea and Jundland wastes on Tatooine, as well as "Niima Outpost" as a thinly veiled substitute for Mos Eisley. There's even a minor foil named Teedo, for God's sake. "Hosnian Prime" is similarly a copy paste of Coruscant with a silly new name. I'm sure the respectable Mr. J. J. Abrahams badly wanted to blow up the actual Coruscant, what with his blood grudge against George Lucas' later works, just like he quite sadistically joked about considering to show the dead corpse of Jar Jar, but some of the much smarter men over at Lucasfilm, probably the guys at the "story group" (Pablo Hidalgo, Leland Chee, etc.) advised against it. Takodana is just like Naboo and Yavin IV, D'Qar is again a literal clone of Yavin IV as there is zero visible differences, and Ahch-To (Where do they pull out these names?) as well is just like the island scenery of Naboo, seen in Attack of the Clones. You even forgot to mention Starkiller Base, a.k.a. Death Star III. At least with that one they bothered to combine two different concepts they ripped off from the originals (Hoth, Death Star), so I'll give them some extra points for that one.

 

Of course they were new. Pointing out similarities is futile when the galaxy has a finite amount of terrain choices.

People will always compare a snow planet with Hoth or a desert planet with Tatooine. Niima Outpost and Mos Eisley don't compare at all.

 

But that's precisely the problem. We don't need or want a new sand planet or snow planet. If they absolutely need to show those same climates again, they should simply use the existing, iconic original planets, and not make up some lame copies. Creating a bunch of identical, lame sand planets is entirely pointless. Tatooine is still just fine. I don't get this sudden need to restrict the SW universe into having only a handful of different types of planets (sand, snow, forest). The prequels had no problem with creative new environments.