ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

I think one completely open evidence of the ANH fixation. Is that instead of showing the last death star which was Death Star II to compare it to Starkiller you get the ANH Death Star. Can't get any more obvious than that.

 

That struck me as odd, too. It would've made more sense to me - and been a lot cooler - if Poe had said "These were the Death Stars" and shown both of them side by side before dwarfing them with Starkiller Base.

 

Death Star II was a lot bigger, though, so if their goal was to impress the people there with the comparative size of SKB, Death Star I makes a stronger case. But yeah, having them say "the Death Star" was kind of awkward, like they all forgot about the second one.

 

- Starkiller base was pointless.
- The way Phasma gave up information was stupid.
- Finn's defection. The reason? Unclear.
- Poe felt useless.
- Rey could have had one or two flaws.
- Rarthars scene...waste of time.
- Too many unnecessary nods to the OT.

Overall I would give the Force Awakens 6/10.

 

You could see Nien Numb, an RotJ character, was a bit put off with the diss(ney) they gave the death star that he blew up.

 

If we answer the 'Why' then it leaves no intrigue.

We didn't ask why Vader was seduced by the darkside. We didn't ask why Vader killed Lukes father (ESB changed things of course).

Why should we criticise TFA for leaving things open for discussion yet praise ANH for doing exactly the same?

 

Well they do actually give a reason in TFA for Han and Leia's estrangement. It is alluded to that their relationship was always difficult and tumultuous. The solution to Ben's problems which arose somewhat from that situation, did not work but instead lead their son to betray his uncle, after which Han and Leia separated. Seemingly because neither felt they could offer the other the kind of support they needed at that time. Leia is mired in the same struggle that has been burdened with virtually her whole life, Han is hesitant about being drawn into the conflict (always his first instinct) that could mean the destruction of his son, or himself or both. Meeting Finn and Rey gives him the encouragement to live up to the persona that he created during the civil war, for the sake of his family, which includes Luke.

My complaint then is that there might have been more examples of the force working its will than the one obvious, brilliant, tantalizing moment provided in TFA

 

One small thing that has bugged me is Finn's "I understood that reference" smile when Han suggests throwing Phasma in the trash compactor. There is no in-universe reason for Finn to understand Han's quip. I doubt that the trash compactor sequence from ANH is as legendary in GFFA as it is in our world.

 

He doesn't understand the reference, he just gets that Han is going to throw her in the trash compactor and likes the idea. When Han asks if there's a trash compactor, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what he's going to do with her.

 

Finn worked in sanitation on the SKB, and so the idea of throwing her into a trash compactor delights him because he has knowledge of trash compactors, and what one will do to Phasma.

It's a tad brutal, when you think about it.

 

Brutal Finn is one of my complaints. I think it would've been more interesting if he adopted an inherently pacifistic mindset after being freed from the First Order.

 

I never took it that they actually intended to throw her into a trash compactor, though. It's more like they were toying with the idea just to make her sweat.

I do like the idea of Finn the Pacifist. Who knows what happens when he wakes up, though?

 

Just because he realises the ideology he's been trained to fight for is cruel and unjust doesn't mean Finn would decide that nothing is worth fighting for.

Initially, the dread of losing himself in that system caused him to simply want to flee and protect himself. But his first experiences out from under the FO yoke bonds him intensely with people who are worth standing beside and fighting alongside, and fighting for.

 

Here's something to think about.

Let's say the trash compactor is a lot like the one on the first Death Star.

Let's say they throw her down the chute.

Remember what kept the heroes in the trash compactor in ANH? A magnetically shielded door.

What if Phasma has the ability to simply open the door and walk right out? Perhaps by using some sort of transmitted code to open the door, disabling the shield (perhaps using the "reverse the polarity" trick) and blowing it open if necessary, or simply calling for someone to open the door? Or any number of possibilities.

That would be a funny image, Phasma sliding down the chute, hitting the garbage, popping up to her feet and walking out merrily.

 

I came to the realization recently that The Force Awakens is a remake of Dark Empire on a budget. Now, don't get me wrong. I love The Force Awakens, and I love Dark Empire even more, but seeing the huge amount of similarities TFA has to the Dark Empire really makes me wish they had gone more all out with expanding the Galaxy instead of showing up snapshots of more interesting ideas.

In The Force Awakens, the Imperials have reorganized into the First Order and bring their forces out of hiding from the Unknown Regions led by a mysterious Dark force user, much like how the Imperials of Dark Empire reorganize and explode out from the Deep Core led by a mysterious Dark force user as well (who turns out to be Palpatine). Then you have a massive reset where the Imperials manage to do enough damage to render the New Republic obsolete (they recapture the New Republic capitol of Coruscant) and cause the former Republic forces to once again become the Rebel Alliance--whereas in TFA things get reset when the First Order destroys the New Republic capitol and most of their forces, causing the Resistance to take on the Rebel Alliance role. THEN you have the First Order in possession of a Hyperspace weapon that can destroy whole systems from a distance which is akin to the Galaxy Gun of Dark Empire II (slightly cheating, since I'm mainly comparing the first comic to TFA but oh well). Maz Kanata shares some similarities with Vima-Da-Boda in that they are ancient Force sensative beings who bless the main character with a lightsaber which is being held in a protective case.

My other, lesser gripe was despite the action scenes being fun, they weren't exactly gripping. There was a lack of urgency to every shot despite things moving quickly, if that makes sense.

 

I didn't think the action scenes were very fun or memorable, which surprised me given that I thought Abrams' Trek movies worked great on that level. I don't think there was anything as good as even the first ten minutes of Into Darkness, with that chase scene on the red planet and shot of the Enterprise rising from the water. And by the way that red planet and its natives were fantastic examples of using practical effects to create a SF environment. For all TFA's marketing there's not much there on a design level that stuck out to me in an interesting, creative way.

 

The only way to incapacitate her was to either kill her (like the dead stormtroopers on the ground in that scene) or throw her down the garbage chute.

Despite being an enemy, she was unarmed at the time, so they chose the more humane method. (Since Han, Finn, Chewie are heroes and not cruel)

 

Fair point.

 

Chewbacca was totally ignored by Leia in the wake of Han's death...

 

lol.

 

Utterly minor nitpick: How does Kylo not feel Han's presence on Takodana?

 

I had problems with the third act of TFA since my first viewing for almost all reasons aforementioned, though I really enjoyed the movie overall and I still do. The first half of TFA is a Star Wars perfect hour for me.
Having said that I think Starkiller subplot was redundant and not developed enough to deserve being the apex of the film, no real urgency or tension there and it was distracting from the real strength of the movie for me, the characters, and the primary plot about the map to Luke Skywalker it was completly forgotten since Starkiller became the focus until the awkard and convenient R2 awakening in the end.
But if I could make a minor change, preserving the same structure and story, albeit fixing my biggest gripe with the execution the way it is, it should be deleting the resistance countdown of the Starkiller shooting. It was the most glaring thing that annoyed me since day 1, for the following reasons:

- It doesn't work for me as a narrative tool. I had zero worries for them, no tension, it came across as a flat callback to the most suspenseful scene of the trilogy for me that it's the battle of Yavin IV in the original. Having explicitly remiding me of that, it just makes the difference even more noticeable.

- It's distracting because the countdown (15 minutes, 10 minutes, etc) doesn't add up with the chronological time spent in universe, especially after the cuts of the scenes that would imply "travel time" from point A to B, making the time almost instantaneous. Or the opposite, moments that are prolonged much more when drama is requested (Han Solo and Kylo's scene, lightsaber battle) than the time they are counting.

- In the internal logic of the universe it leaves me questioning how could the Resistance could have a detailed real time countdown from a weapon that is far away at another system, on a base they don't have any access to, aside the Falcon and the X-Wings.

- And finally, to me it begs the question once the resistance knows for sure they had 15 minutes until be "decimated" by Starkiller base, why they just wouldn't abandon the planet in the first place? Sure, it's a short time, but it'd be a lot less suicidal to evacuate the base than doing nothing, expecting for a "miracle to save" them as C-3PO stated. Once I had noticed this, I'm really bugged by it.

I think the third act would be a bit better without this countdown, just leaving the First Order countdown would be enough, or even without that one too, just showing the sun beeing sucked off. To me it appears to be an afterthought in the editing process, trying to create more suspense, but it didn't work for me at all. I'd like to see a fan edit without that someday.

 

Any other complaint or gripes I had to make I think somebody already did, I just wanted to comment on this one, because is something I've never seen anyone noticing or complaining before. Sure is a minor thing apparently, that bugs me much more than it should, but for me could let the movie be simply better without it.

 

I completely agree. one of the puzzling things I considered (admittedly only after I saw RO) was that if JJ and the rest of mystery inc. was clearly so desperate to make a SW movie extremely reminiscent of ANH/the OT in general, why didn't they just make a stand alone film that was set during that time? I am, like many, quite upset that things in TFA look nearly identical to things in ANH (same stormtrooper outfits, same imperial starships, etc.). We see this also in RO, but that's obviously not an issue as RO takes place during the time of OT. TFA is thirty years(!) after the OT. If they really want to replicate ANH, don't make a movie that is set decades after it. this seems pretty intuitive to me...