ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

Agreed. To me, the measure of fan service is simple: does a person who's not a fan notice something wonky with the story, and can that wonkiness be attributed to fan service? In that context, only the trash compactor line, the dejarik best, and the wonky introduction of the SKB, fit the bill. The rest of the "callbacks" are well-woven into the story so that even people who never saw the OT could grasp exactly what was happening, and why.

 

I get you are looking at fan service as the little nods or winks, but the real fan service that many find difficult, is ....... "The Story Itself".

The story is one giant fan service, which many casual fans noted and is a major criticism of the movie.

Regarding the little winks and nods, I could care less for them, but I appreciate the effort and fans of SW loving them. Makes complete sense for them to love them and for some to find them cringe-worthy.

I personally let them slide, even I didn't like some, simply because there are far bigger issues with the film. Oh how I wish minor fan service was the biggest talking point.

 

A fresh and compelling story adding to the saga and creating a new trilogy would be better than an over use of fan service.
An occasional wink is fine but the whole film is a fan film.
That's pretty lazy film making in my mind.

Death Star 3.0 was part of the plot - rehash
Maz katana cantina - rehash
X-wing trench run - rehash
Jakku dessert planet - rehash

I have issues when fan service is the film.

The PT had fan service but in a more subtle way and it wasn't part of the story plot!

All my friend agreed on one point, TFA is episode 4 with a touch of episode 5...plain and simple.

 

Actually it has ep 6 as well - Han going to the planet surface whilst the space battle occurs.

 

But since the story itself is perfectly understandable and compelling to people who never saw the OT (such as one of my nephews, and a niece) I don't consider the broad story similarities to the OT to be "fan service."

 

There you go....JJ is a Fan Editor too...he edited Episode 4, 5 and 6 into one film. Was he at Topher Graces' private screening of PT in 85 minutes by chance....
Was that his main inspiration to make a condensed fan film

 

Death Star 3.0 was part of the plot - rehash
Maz katana cantina - rehash
X-wing trench run - rehash
Jakku dessert planet - rehash

I don't think the above are broad....I think its more specific and pretty much a copy. Starkiller base was part of the whole plot. Yes a broad copy of Episode 4 IMO. A Globe with a canon that blows up planets....been there, seen that....

The first 5 minutes sums it up nicely

 

Why do you keep responding to posts about "fan service" with "rehash" complaints? My point is that I don't consider similar story beats and visuals (or what you call "rehashed" elements) to be the same thing as "fan service." In my view, "fan service" is something that is included in a story solely or primarily for its appeal to fans of a franchise, as measured by how poorly/ clunkily it fits within the story being told. Since, IMO, TFA's overall story generally proceeded smoothly (apart form a few moments marred by fan service), and in such a way that non-fans could fully comprehend (without having seen the OT), I think TFA as a whole largely avoided fan service.

 

Maybe the lines are getting blurred between fan service and rehash....as Darth Pig stated:

...but to say it avoided fan service may not be a correct statement. That is the issue or main complaint. The whole story is a rip off. There is nothing fresh or new in TFA. Its all familiar "giving fans what they want", that familiar feeling. This "familiar" feeling IMO did not need to pretty much retell Episode 4 and 5.

As others have stated:

 

Quoting JJ

I dunno what to cool that, um......errrr......fan service?

 

If you call it fan service, you're again falling into the trap of applying a term to something that isn't the common usage of it. Which then often leads to you getting quite annoyed when people pull you up on specifics about something later on, with you calling people pedantic or nitpicky.

I don't get why a lot of the people who don't like the film have this need to use specific terms to describe their dislike, rather than being happy to just say "I don't like it because of X, the reasons are Y"

This constant deluge of "it's FAN SERVICE" and "It's a REHASH" don't aid discussion, because the only response/debate possible then becomes "no it isn't"

 

I don't like TFA is because it doesn't try to be original. JJ deliberately wanted it to feel as familiar as possible, at the expense of originality. He's openly confessed this. So ultimately, combined with the shallow modern characters, over-reliance on fast-paced action, numerous plot holes ala TV show-style and complete lack of scientific respect, it simply doesn't feel like a Star Wars film.

 

Hey JJ,

I didn't need to be reminded of Star Wars. We have 6 films that already gave us that.

I like TFA as a stand alone film , but I dislike it because it's not really a Star Wars film.
It's exactly like George Lucas said, it's nothing more but a "Retro" film.

 

The endless discussions about rehash that have been posted on these forums all spiral back to the same essential element: it was good for you or it was not. No one is changing anyone's opinion, no one is convincing anyone else of anything -other than how they individually feel about the film - when discussions about specifics become long litanies or broad brush statements about the entire film (like this will also be, in response).

Fan service has a variety of definitions, and is more specific when one discusses anime, but in general it is something added to the story that only a fan would understand. Here's the heart of that: Star Wars is the most popular franchise ever. The fan base is huge. A very large portion of the viewing audience has seen the OT several times in its different iterations. For me, it was fun that there were several references to specific items out of the OT. For me, the recalls to other OT story elements bridged the gap of so many years since I saw something new that had the ambiance of the OT. I feel we have that gap bridged and now will move forward, carrying some of that ambiance, introducing new perspectives, and developing the new characters.

TFA did its job and did it very well, in my opinion. This fan has been served.

 

Star Wars The Reminder , maybe thats the new term for reboot / rehash

I think this is very much JJ trying to justify what a re-hash it was . He says they wanted to 'remind' us what SW is , but by the half-way point I'd already been 'reminded' innumerable times , what with TIE fighters , sand planets , imperials , x-wings etc. etc.
But then the 2nd half is even more of a re-hash . So I don't buy his reasoning , there's too much reminding . I don't know maybe they had to get going before they had a decent script or a full story
A lot of my complaints about the movie would be related to this matter .


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That's kind of a misunderstanding of what JJ said, an an unfairly reductive interpretation.

What he meant, I'd suggest, was a diplomatic attempt at saying "we want to tell a simple exciting story that isn't structured in the way the prequels are believed to be"

So, kind of I think they used the scaffold of ANH's plot as a framework for introducing new characters and conflicts. People have varying degrees of accepting that that was valid - my personal take is its fine until SKB comes into it, but others have different takes on that which is fine.

But where it gets a bit less valid is when people pretend that there aren't a lot of significantly new ideas and characters. Finn's story is not a rehash. The awakening of Rey is not a rehash. Kylo Ren's determination to join the darkness despite having a support network and an opportunity to turn away from the darkness isn't a rehash. The idea that the last Jedi is in exile is an idea that is being explored far more than with previous exiled Jedi who were essentially training providers; Luke looks set to be an actual saviour.

 

Yeah, if only some technology existed for us to be able to see Star Wars again in our own homes, we wouldn't need to be reminded constantly what it was like.

I think you nailed one aspect though. It does feel incredibly rushed. Even the length of the movie seems oddly short. And very choppily and poorly edited, at least from a plot/story perspective.

 

JJ said they were literally talking about scenes and how they played out during filming. At times I do think it showed. I also think the editing was chopping and sometimes not in the right order. For example, the scene where Kylo talks to Vader's helmet should have happened before Snoke revealed he was Han's son. Therefore the audience could been wondering who child was he ...Luke or Leia especially with Luke missing, it make sense that he went into hiding after his own son betrayed him. The think the suspense of that even if it only been for about 20-25 minutes would have been awesome!!

 

Personally, I found the nostalgia / 'fan service' aspect of VII a great comfort. As someone who was VERY skeptical after Disney became involved, I went into the new movie having read nothing about it beforehand, with very low expectations. So to find a movie that felt so familiar and so much like Star Wars was just incredibly comforting. The fact that it bore more similarity to the Originals than the Prequels was even better.

I don't know really - I suppose your opinion on the originality depends on whether you wanted something groundbreaking and new out of Episode VII or just a return to form after the Prequels. For me, it was the latter, and I loved it for that.

 

The film is good, I don't disagree with that. But, I find that there are too many obvious nods and winks. It didn't really need all that because:

1. We get to see the Falcon
2. We get to see Han and Chewie
3. We get to see Luke and Lea....well Lea more than Luke

These three points are enough to bring back the nostalgia. I just feel that there was too much that's all. I mean seeing the Falcon fly for all that time was enough for me and awesome!

I feel that Episode 7 should be starting a new chapter rather than heavily borrowing/copying/ripping off storylines from its predecessors (IV, V, VI).
We can argue that the PT didn't do that, I feel they had creativity and depth.

TFA familiar storylines, for me, were a distraction from what should have been a fresh new entry in the Saga.

 

So why then are you in List your complaints thread complaining about people complaining?

In the end people have elaborated what part of fan service they liked and disliked. It's pretty simple.

If some says I don't like fan service, then I agree it adds nothing, but I think it's quite clear from most posts what part of the fan service they have an issue with.

And arguing semantics over the term perhaps should be a thread in its own right.

 

What happened to Leia. I understand, heroes lose sometimes but Leia has lost her husband (killed for their son), her son (Kylo probably will die or try to kill his family), her brother just disappeared...Jesus Christ, that's depressing!

 

It's all ok, cause, ..... Rey, Finn, Poe....

 

What about the Han shot first moment...when he tosses some nondescript guy into the jaws af the Rathtar...and don't tell me the odds...

 

How is that a Han shot first moment?