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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by BretHart, Dec 17, 2015.

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  1. 3LCD

    3LCD Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2015
    A lot of my issues have already been mentioned.. I'll just add--

    1. Destruction of the relationship between the Big 3
    2. Lost opportunity to see the Big 3 together in a scene on screen together (outside of some god awful flashbacks that could be done in the future films)
    3. The Force usually provided visions of the future... when did objects suddenly start providing the past?
     
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  2. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    You didn't really provide anything to reply to specifically. I thought your reply was a bit nonsensical and meandering if I'm totally honest. Sorry.
     
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  3. bigerik

    bigerik Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Dec 23, 2015
    Exactly.

    I'm plodding my way through the novelization, and it makes the plot seem even more threadbare. Actually, both overly convoluted and threadbare. Nice job making both of those conflicting issues possible. ;)

    It really becomes obvious that they didn't really have a story or vision in mind when they started down the road to make this movie. They knew they were making a Star Wars movie, so they added every familiar Star Wars plot element into a hat, and started pulling them out, one by one.

    At least the novelization does fill in enough backstory to make some plot holes, or stupid plot points, less troublesome. But it still out and out sucks as a plot.
     
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  4. Dagobah Dragonsnake

    Dagobah Dragonsnake Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 7, 2016
    I preface this by saying I enjoyed the film a lot, multiple times, and look forward to the continuance of the saga. My complaint (other that a few nitpicks) is that they may have put themselves in a hole with an over abundance of unanswered questions. There are only two movies left, perhaps another four and a half hours of storytelling, to not only generate a new story and firmly establish the remainder of the arch, but to blend in the answers to the mysteries we are left with in a satisfying manner without stepping all over the momentum of the story.
     
  5. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    The thing is, we're all half expecting that we'll get a lot more explanation as to the First Order, Knights of Ren, Snoke, what led to Kylo's fall, what led to Luke's exile, Luke's lightsabre after Bespin, force ghosts post ROTJ, the prophecy and the 'force' post ROTJ etc. But in reality, we'll probably never get any more explanation. That will be left to ancillary material... and us here.
     
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  6. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 20, 2015
    So what ? I don't go to the theatre to watch a documentary ! I want a good story, filled with enough action to be entertaining.. Many of the elements you listed are superflous, if not boring, don't really improve the story and will often needlessly slow down the flow of the movie : i don't want to see them explored. ex :
    • the First Order : it's clearly formed by the reorganization and re-emergence of former Imperial elements : that's all i need to know.
    • Kylo's fall : we had more than enough prequels about the bad guy's fall already ! (and i preferred my headcanon version of Vader downfall anyway)
    • Bespin lightsaber: irrelevant for the main story : they can make a book or a comic about it if they want, but that's about it.
    • the Prophecy : that stupid storyline is over, the prophecy can already be considered fulfilled on 2 different occasions, depending on your interpretation : no need to ever mention it ever again.

    Forgoing those elements will leave more time for future character development, more surprises, longer emotionnal moments, and will ensure a better pace for these movies.

    Still, we will get more of Snoke & Knights of Ren (since their presence in TFA is just a teasing, so they won't seem to appear out of nowhere in the next episode) and we will probably get more details about Luke's journey as well.
     
  7. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    Well perhaps I have higher standards than you? Things like DETAIL are important to me... Things like in story logic, plotting, coherent storytelling etc (perhaps they can just put that in the comic too?). What can I say? I'm more interested in substance than fluff.
     
  8. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 20, 2015
    Movies have a very limited amount of time, and can't afford to spend too much on minor details, especially when they don't directly impact the main story : too much details harm the experience !

    And let's not pretend TFA's story has an incoherent storytelling : there are more than enough elements to support the main plot, and your logic an the power of your imagination can easily fill the blanks.
    (if you can accept the fact that FTL drives exist, then i'm sure you can figure out a way to accept that object A end up in possessionof person X)

    So, let the filmakers focus on what's really important for the theatre experience, since you'll eventually have plenty of additionnal content to satisfy your thirst for detail anyway.
     
  9. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    With all respect, I really don't need you to explain to me how films work and function. The Force Awakens is, in my humble opinion, Star Wars reduced to its thinnest possible veneer. I find it bereft of imagination, creative intelligence, and cinematic spirit. All those things that you feel are unimportant are the things that reduce it to being another largely inconsequential (outside of $$$) action blockbuster. All those elements you so readily dismiss are, for me, the difference between bad, average, good and great cinema (TFA firmly sitting in the 'average' section for me).
     
  10. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Is this where I post something I didn't think about until several viewings and just felt like finding something "wrong", or after reading someone else's observation?
     
  11. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    ^I think it's where you post your complaints about TFA...
     
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  12. ObidioJuan

    ObidioJuan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2002
    The biggest complaint I have is that Rebels is loads better than TFA.

    The characters are interesting. The stories are fun, the settings are varied and interesting.

    Their portrayal of the Force, while having some twists on the movie themes, is still consistent to a degree with the story. (The bad guys are more interesting than the Knights of Rey, ermm Ren)

    The characters motivations and struggles are fleshed out and relateable .

    They use the original characters (Vader, Leia, Lando), and while adding to their story and bending some of the known plots they are still familiar and you can suspend your disbelief (so far) without causing major plot holes or changing the characters you already know. (One potential issue is the inclusion of Anakin's old padawan but I still have hope they will handle it correctly)

    I can go on. The point is that interesting stuff can be made off while still maintaining the "OT" feel and making for interesting storytelling.
     
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  13. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 7, 2014
    A problem I have with TFA is not just it's rampant OT Nostalgia overload, but the fact that Rogue One would have been a much better opportunity to do that.

    It's set just before ANH, so it can include X-Wings and TIE fighters with no suspension of disbelief.

    Now there will be two OT heavy films in 2 years. Very disappointing, especially for a film that's supposed to define the new trilogy.
     
  14. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 31, 2013
    I have to agree. I wasn't that much into the first season of Rebels, but it's got progressively better, and I find season 2 contains far more interesting and entertaining set pieces and character moments than TFA did. Of course Rebels has had more time/opportunity to find its mojo, and correct it's course than a 2 hour film does, but all the same it's somewhat frustrating for me when I actually find the cartoon more satisfying.
     
  15. Legolas22

    Legolas22 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jan 13, 2016
    Here's my list:
    1.)Why were they able explain how the falcon stolen but not how Maz obtained Anakins saber? I felt that they could've just said a few lines of explanation and would've been interesting.
    2.)Rey was a very boring character. She had barely struggled with anything and when she did, she got out of every situation unscathed. Also, why did they give her proficient force abilities in such a short amount of time? I really think they should've gotten rid of the mind trick and force pull.
    3.)Star Killer base, enough said there...
    4.)They definitely should've replace TR-8R with Phasma to show that she isn't a complete chump.
    5.)The final battle wasn't too great, they should've made it have it result in a stalemate. Have Rey and Kylo look into each other's eyes while the ground separated each other.
    6.)Like most have said, destruction of the original 3.
    7.)Have Finn save Rey from the interrogation chamber rather than her pulling off a Jedi trick out of nowhere.
     
  16. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

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    Sep 19, 2002
    I have to admit it. I like Rebels better then TFA. I honestly do even though it's made for kids. I honestly think Rebels is the best stuff Disney has done so far since it's taken over.

    I also am growing more and more in the column they should just left the OT characters/legacy alone. It allowed TFA to be the highest grossing film domestically of all time but IMO..at what price? I must admit I am less excited now for Episode VIII knowing what I know now. There really isn't any intrigue for me compared to TFA. The OT characters feel like a bunch of old bitter drunks (the ones that are alive obviously) while I am intrigued with our new characters, I am not clamoring to go (for example) "OMG, I got to find out what happened to Finn!".

    I am honestly more excited for Rogue One then I am Episode VIII. A year ago, I would said to that: "You're too drunk Tyrion, go home!"
     
  17. Dave Hoffman

    Dave Hoffman Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 24, 2012
    What happened to Finn, indeed. I'm still curious how he lost consciousness at the end. He got slashed up the back by a lightsaber, he didn't get hit in the head, so how was he knocked into a coma? It had to have been a very glancing blow to begin with, otherwise he would have been cut in half, so that further complicates the coma outcome. Complaint #41: Lack of attention to SW detail.
     
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  18. JediKnightYJK

    JediKnightYJK Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 17, 2016

    So in that case why did they insert another StarKiller Base? They should of focus on what you said instead of another Death Star.[/quote]
     
  19. McLaren

    McLaren Jedi Grand Master star 3

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    May 1, 2002
    Yes, in every samurai movie I've ever seen (which is a fair number) the filet-o-human back slash is a guaranteed fatality. I walked out of the theater thinking that was one thing Abrams got right - the stormtrooper dude's arc was complete as he died trying to save Rey. That was until I was told that, despite the sheet, he was just in a coma...
     
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  20. Pluvial

    Pluvial Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 19, 2015
    In regards to Rebels, what surprises me is how, I suppose, 'typical' Ezra's progression is. Ezra in the show, I believe has a year+ training under his belt and is still thrown aside effortlessly by the garden variety Inquisitors. These Inquisitors are commented on by the Show's creator as utterly insignificant compared to Vader.

    Contrasted to Rey, and well, the differences are apparent.
     
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  21. Brybe_Daker

    Brybe_Daker Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 21, 2015
    I have very few issues with TFA. I liked the film quite a bit. My only real complaints are that Phasma was completely underused and not a very strong character. Besides that, my number one issue would be General Hux. I felt that he contributed very little to the story, didn't have particularly great dialog, and generally just stole screentime from more important characters and events.
     
  22. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 20, 2015
    I just don't get why people are so fascinated with Phasma ? She's basically just an "alpha mob" : different color, probably more hit points & maybe a special attack .... and that's it ! She's just supposed to be a tougher than average Stormtrooper, why should she be more ?

    Hux on the other hand is not only a mandatory character type (we need a high ranked officer to "embody" the FO) but a interesting character on his own :
    _ he is obviously talented, since he's quite young for an admiral
    _ he refuses to retreat (relatively uncommon : minor villains tend to be coward)
    _ he's has the balls to stand up to Kylo, when every other FO members are afraid of him.
    _ his interaction with Kylo are fun to watch : i love to see those two guys ****talk each other (& hopefully do worse in the future), and it serves the development of Kylo Ren's character as well : Kylo need a counterpoint, just like Vader needed Tarkin.

    I really hope he gets more development than Phasma : a shiny armor does not make up for a total lack of personnality, and the guy hasn't lost his credibility.

    .
    JediKnightYJK : SKB failed ... because of its lack of development : not enough time is spent on showing us how impressive it is, how devastating it was for the Republic, how much people are scared of it or how hard it is to destroy : you need to spend more time on those elements to "sell it".

    Still, this plot device accomplished its primary role for this trilogy : quickly bring the FO from beaten "underdog", to a dominating and threatening position.
     
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  23. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Can anyone say Spin off, or Anthology, or A Star Wars Story, or whatever Disney are calling them.
     
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  24. Pondscum

    Pondscum Jedi Knight star 1

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    Nov 10, 2014
    The complete reset of the status quo is my biggest gripe. Destroying the Republic and the fleet (and symbolically, the PT?) in one shot so that it doesn't have to be thought about or dealt with in any way as a concept. I couldn't see this as anything but a cheap device so that the film and the sequel saga could move forward with its nostalgic tone.

    This was the biggest war crime yet committed in a series of films that are filled with colossal amount of innocent deaths... and neither the audience nor the cast particularly cares in the moment. Starkiller Base seemed to turn up out of nowhere in the film without any fanfare and its destruction served more as a vehicle for gags about the death star than anything that vitally mattered.

    The hazy distinction of the Resistance from the Republic also bugged me. A nonsensical situation which barely stands up to scrutiny even if you take into account the ancillary reading material - another weird excuse the film made so that the good guys could consist of exactly those who were involved previously and remain as underdogs.
     
  25. McLaren

    McLaren Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 1, 2002
    Agree with the gripe except, the First Order didn't destroy the Republic.

    Destroying the Republic capital is like Iran nuking Washington DC. Yeah, some buildings get destroyed and some Senators would be vaporized. But, every state would elect or appoint a new Senator and those new Senators, well, the very first thing they would do is pass a ginormous f()&ing war funding bill. Cause you know what didn't get hit? The shipyards, the assembly lines, etc. etc.

    The First Order's strike makes zero strategic sense.
     
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