ST The Official "List Your Complaints About TFA" Discussion Thread

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But it's implied both in the movie and particularly in the book that the Republic's fleet (or the vast majority of it, I think it is kind of like Pearl Harbor were almost all of the fleet is there but not completely) was in the system as well so destroying it made sense from a military standpoint. Plus I think destroying the capital in the eyes of the First Order would send the galaxy in total chaos which it would. Think about your analogy. If Iran somehow nuke Washington DC particularly when Congress was in session and everyone was in town, it would send this country in total chaos. Yes eventually we have elections and rebuild our government but the short term it be a total disaster on every level possible particularly considering the current state of things (which I think TFA is supposed to mirror with the New Republic). A attack like that can easily send the country into civil war. Same goes for the SW universe as it currently stands (which is what the FO wants).

I can fault in the originality and even the physics behind Starkiller Base (even for SW, it really did not make much sense even in the book where they went great lengths to explain how it all worked) but blowing up the Republic system made perfect sense for the First Order on several levels IMO.

Plus it sets up for one of the few rather intriguing and fresh ideas for Episode VIII. Both the First Order and Republic (Resistance IMO really does not exist anymore since Leia and her small band of freedom fighters were proven right) have been leveled. They don't have much of a fighting force left. Therefore they need to not build up their forces quickly and by any means possible. This will include making deals with the underbelly of the universe and trying to get all the gangsters to fight on their side. It be really intriguing to watch Leia try to cut deals with like the Hutts for example.

 

Unless Snoke is trying to pull the Republic into a wider conflict, just like another bad guy did a while back. Makes you wonder just who Snoke is really working for, other than himself. And just how much the next movies may or may not borrow from the PT.

Oh, and I have no major complaints about TFA. I'm willing to wait and see where the story goes.

 

I think the Hater's Cave should be nuked, and this thread be made the main "criticism" hub. This is a much better thread, and much healthier for the forum.

 

That's what I would think too, but the deliberate wording of Hux's speech really makes it seem like as far as these films are concerned, that's the Republic done with. I don't think we're going to see the rest of a fleet turn up and they're certainly not going to touch on a political response. I think it's going to be a ragtag bunch of rebels operating from a secret base for the the foreseeable future.

 

A couple thoughts:

- not sure what's in place in the GFFA New Republic but, the USA, having long been prepared for an imminent nuclear war with the USSR, has a robust continuity of government plan in place. In many movies where the villain tries to decapitate a government, there is usually some set up involved in trying to get everyone in one place as it is widely recognized as a difficult thing to achieve. As the First Order's strike is completely out of the blue, it would seem to have a low probability of catching everyone. Also, as the New Republic was formed after the Empire had destroyed Alderaan, to think that they would put all their eggs in one basket would seem to require a large suspension of disbelief. Maybe not quite a plot hole but, a really big push of the "I believe" button.

- the Pearl Harbor analogy is flawed as the Japanese knew that even if they were wildly successful and caught the entire Pacific Fleet in port, they would still have to hope that their Axis partner in Europe would be successful enough that, when combined with their strike, it would force the US in to a two front war that the US would not want to fight. But, if your strategy is based on hoping your enemy won't fight, it probably is not going to turn out so well. As applies to the New Republic, based on the galaxy's experience under the Imperial Navy, it's maybe believable that they would have a "Fleet in being" that would stay close to the capital. Although, if the central government is weak, than that would tend to lead to the systems being strong as there would still be pirates and smugglers to chase and borders to defend.

Which would mean that, if the intent was to remove politics from Star Wars, the First Order strike is a complete failure as there will have to be alliances formed and resources harnessed and trade routes taxed to pay for it all. (I think this is aligned with Kenneth Morgan' s post)

Hux's speech is kind of weird. He talks about a dithering Senate but, he's not governed by the Republic Senate. So, what does he care? And, even if he does care, dithering would mean divided. Doesn't he want his enemy to be divided and therefore weak? Punching your enemy in the nose is a really good way to stop them being divided. Also, as this New Republic was strong enough to demand reparations and disarmament, it's hard to see how it would just evaporate away.

 

McLaren

They literally said in the movie (and book) that the small Republic fleet (thanks to Mon Mothma) was in the Republic system. So the Pearl Harbor analogy fits.

And yes, the US government would be paralyzed in the aftermath of a nuclear attack. Even with all protocol that is written down, there would be utter chaos initially.

 

NO! Evil will always win because good is dumb!

 

Or you could simply stop reading that particular thread and posting in the Sanctuary. Ever think of that?

 

This is the only forum I've ever encountered that is devoted to a specific film and has a dedicated thread for hating it. It's odd. I dislike, perhaps even hate, some films, popular films, but after expressing that as constructively as I can I move on. I don't understand lingering on, hating films one doesn't like in forums about those films. I don't understand the unfettered rage and false accusations leveled at the filmmakers. Don't like films, fine. But don't follow the easy path to the dark side of hating people you have never met and whose inner thoughts and motives you don't know.

The point is, at some point all the points have been made. The very behavior some PT haters were accused of engaging in (ongoing and repetitive complaints over weeks/months/years in fan forums dedicated to the PT) is present here, made malignantly manifest in the cave thread.

 

^Well, SW is a big thing, and so is its fandom. It seems only fair that people can continually praise, or criticize it, if they want to.

 

One of the current discussions in the cave is whether Abrams "plagiarized" Lucas. Not as a rhetorical point to knock the film, but as serious discussion of the definition and legal ramifications. That's not a rational criticism of the film. That's what happens when a thread isn't a discussion but an echo chamber that folds in on itself and magnifies its own worst parts.

As a side note, is there a haters-only thread sanctuary for the films of the OT, or the PT?

 

Fans like the regulars of the Sanctuary played a part in getting Jar Jar reduced in the prequels. So, you're welcome.

 

>Finn doesn't act or talk someone who's been indoctrinated his whole life and has just broken the conditioning.
>"he tried to kill me six tim--hhrrk- which is fine!"
>Finn picking up that old remote Luke used to practice with.
>Snoke's face.
>Han Solo has been married to Chewbacca for how long? and he's never tried out the bowcaster? or even paid attention to what happens when Chewie uses it?
>way to keep it on the DL, Max.
>Starkiller Base kinda comes out of nowhere.
>no impact or consequence is really conveyed from the annihilation of an entire star system.
>"i was just trying to help" "when did that ever help" this is repetitive and clumsy dialogue.
>none of the characters seem to take Starkiller Base seriously. why should i?
>the Resistance commits a good portion (or was that all?) of their starfighters to this mission without even knowing what Han's plan is.
>do they really trust a wookiee, an aging smuggler, and a stormtrooper to pull this off? couldn't spare any ground troops? not even a couple? even if they knew Han's suicidal plan and were all cowards it's no mathematical feat to come to "dead either way."
>how do they in the Resistance war room know with precision when SKB will be ready to fire?
>all Captain Phasma does the whole movie is suck and commit treason.
>no space action to speak of.

i think that's it.

 

I guess you mustn't visit here that often then? Up until TFA, some posters were still hating on the prequels (TPM being made circa 17 years ago now).

 

We could be in for a long ride, since some people who so venomously dislike or actually hate TFA, do so simply because they are not Lucas stories or Lucas controlled productions. There are others who liked the prequels and took a lot of abuse over the years and are now seeking to turn the tables. I have noticed in my short tenure that there are many who strongly criticize absolutely everything in TFA, when some of those criticisms apply just as well or even better to both the OT and PT.

This is definitely not all of those who dislike the movie. There are sane and reasonable arguments put up by many, and everyone is entitled to express their opinion. Having said that, regardless of who directs, where the story line goes, box office successes, there will be a limited core of people who cannot accept that this is not longer a George Lucas project, and Lucasfilm is owned by the Mouse. In general, the first six (seven with TCW) movies somehow were more artistic and altruistic in the past, and now it has become commercialized money grubbing. We have two more saga sequels and three spin offs yet to go and it is going to be interesting to see if there is enhanced acceptance that this actually is a new era in the Star Wars universe.

 

I believe that's just a second rate deflection of TFA criticisms. Seems to me that those who don't like TFA incorporates fans of the OT, fans of the PT and fans of both...

 

Sadly for them, they are a minority.

 

The middle part was a little confusing, at Maz's castle.

 

That plagiarized thing has to do with the film though. And, I mean... we have threads about the toys and TFA bathroom breaks, so...

I don't know if there's any hater sanctuaries in those areas, but TFA probably does have people talking more. I'm not really for the attitude about The Cave though. A simple thread like this seems to work just fine.

 

Oh, for sure there are people who do not like TFA who are fans of the OT and the PT. Note that I really did not say anything about the PT or OT other than they as a saga had as many as, if not more, issues as TFA (if this comment was in answer to mine ... that's not obvious, it is that is was directly under) and I did say that many - if not most - people voicing complaint or criticism are reasonable.

My point is when you see the same posters in multiple threads with different themes always blasting TFA no matter what the discussion is, and appear to dislike everything and anything regardless if the supposed crimes were also committed in all the previous episodes, one begins to wonder about motives, and if the decision - whether conscious or not - to dislike VII was because it was not part of the George Lucas directed world, and if so is there a predisposition to dislike anything coming in the future from a Disney owned Lucasfilm. Whether that idea is "second rate" or not, it is not constructed as any deflection away from honest criticism of specific elements of the movie. It is mostly my speculation that some seem to be seeking out opportunities to trash the movie for the sake of trashing it, and taking knee jerk contrarian positions for their own sake without regard to the subject at hand ... which gives one pause - when observing such behavior - to ponder what the true driver for so disliking the movie is.

 

Which has gone on since we started sharing our thoughts about Star Wars films on the Internet. One either buys into the notion that anyone spending time airing their grievances is a crank, no matter which film they are ripping on, or that it's people just voicing their opinions (with differing degrees) of dislike. Of course there is a minority of those who'd hate something no matter what... but that's certainly not a new phenomenon.

 

I think this is a much healthier thread than the Cave. The problem with the Cave, IMO, is not the relentless criticism of TFA. That's fine. It's that there are a number of posters there ridiculing people for liking TFA - calling them mindless, etc. This would be fine in a hermetically-sealed private thread that was only for haters. But the thread is open, and it exists here on a forum with a lot of people who enjoy TFA. And the existence and persistence of those attacks on TFA's fan base, as opposed to attacks on TFA itself, really poisons the atmosphere well beyond that thread.

 

And again, you could simply stop reading that particular thread rather than lobbying to silence opinions you disagree with. You have hundreds of threads to love TFA in, we are relegated to one.

 

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