The Official Obi-Wan Kenobi Discussion Thread v.2

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by jEdI_kEnObI80, Jul 2, 2004.

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  1. jEdI_kEnObI80 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2003
    star 2
    Where the heck is all those Obi-Wan fans out there? I can't believe it - the old Obi-Wan discussion thread has been locked because of the lack of posts. I hope this new one will be working right.

    *Note* Only discussions about the Obi-Wan in The Phantom Menace is allowed in this thread.
  2. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    So if I wanted to say "I like the way how Obi-Wan's character in TPM transists into his character in AOTC," that wouldn't be allowed?
  3. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2004
    star 5
    Except for the final duel I didn't think Obi-Wan had a big enough role in Episode I.
  4. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I'm always up for a little (or a lot) of Kenobi discussion, I don't know about you :D

    I defintiely agree that there wasn't enough of his character in TPM. The Duel is fantastic, and reveals several of the character's flaws as well. I think basically in TPM, GL only thought it was necessary to establish who Obi-Wan was, kind of what he was like, and how he came to train Anakin. Clearly, the fact that he didn't choose to train the boy is going to have a big effect on the training and the tensions there are already laid. Still, I don't think GL even realises how important a character Obi-Wan is. In the PT, we need at least *one* good guy to root for, and it can't really be Anakin. We can mourn for both of them, but ultimately, we have to be able to also root for Obi-Wan. I'm not sure there was enough of him in TPM, though this was remedied some in AOTC. Still...

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  5. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    What I like about Obi Wan in TPM is his dry humour-"If they find us, ...blast us to oblivion". "why do I sense we picked up another pathetic lifeform"- yet keeping himself in line in the ways of the straight forward Jedi type also reminding Qui Gon a few things about keeping the code.

    He's got a good head on his shoulders. Note he only reveals somethign about himself, that he's ready for the Trials, only after Qui Gon "releases" him. He keeps most of his emotions under strict control, yet unfraid to speak his mind, when he finds it necessary.

    Obi Wan also had the courage to say he was sorry about his behaviour. Where Qui Gon eventually tells him "your a much wiser man than I am". Wow, what a compliment! He's really proved his self worth, Qui Gon acknowledges it.

    So do I :D

  6. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I don't see Obi-Wan in TPM as the great, shining figure some of his fans seem to. I think he displays arrogance, haste, and anger. Some people seem to gloss over that. *However*, he is man enough (unlike Anakin in AOTC) to admit his faults and to try to correct him. That will be of utmost importance in the intertrilogy time as Obi-Wan finds he has many flaws to correct before he can properly train Luke. And Obi-Wan is wise, and actually takes the time to think about things.

    The ironic thing is that Obi-Wan's dogged attachment to Qui-Gon ends up in his blindly, proudly deciding he can train Anakin (harkens back to the ROTJ line about knowing better than Yoda). This from someone who has clearly pushed that attachment is forbid to Anakin later.

    PT Obi-Wan on the whole is flawed. However, his story in TPM is the one I'm by far the most interested in in the film. And for all of that arrogance, you have to love him. Even sometimes because of some of those little snotty comments of his, because he's so darn wry about it. The "blast us into tiny pieces" line is so great. I love the mischevious glee on his face :D

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  7. luvqui-gon_gurl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    star 1
    Wahoo! A Kenobi discussion thread is back! Okay, hmmm, what do I like about Obi? Well, he's funny in TPM, and he's CUTE [face_love] (sorry, couldn't resist 8-} ) and he's also very loyal to his Order. Um, I think that the discussion about how Obi-Wan from TPM transists into the Obi-Wan from AOTC is allowed. It's still about TPM OBI!
  8. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Well a lot of what I've recently wanted to say about Obi-Wan in TPM I made note of in the thread I just created tonight. I don't feel like repeating it here, but if anyone wants to read it, they're welcome to it ;)

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  9. JediSF Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2004
    star 4
    PT Obi-Wan on the whole is flawed. However, his story in TPM is the one I'm by far the most interested in in the film. And for all of that arrogance, you have to love him. Even sometimes because of some of those little snotty comments of his, because he's so darn wry about it. The "blast us into tiny pieces" line is so great. I love the mischevious glee on his face

    solo, I agree. The obi-Wan arc is fascinating. It's great to follow th progression from student to Master, from a flawed man to an enlightened one. The portrayal in TPM couldn't have been a better start. he makes mistakes, he shows humility, he shows a lack of faith, and ultimatelly he proves himself the quintessential knight, ending on a high note of confidence and loyalty(which will inevitably lead to a little pride and arrogance).
  10. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    I think the scene, where Qui-Gon is dying in Obi-Wan's arms, is one of the most gut-wrenching of the entire saga. Some of Ewan's and Liam's best work, IMHO.

  11. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Definitely. It works on many levels as well. There's the fact that a young man is losing his father figure. There's the fact that a great Jedi is dying. There's the fact that Anakin's fate is being entrusted to Obi-Wan. And there's the fact that Qui-Gon not saying anything personal to Obi-Wan really stings.

    Funny, though. I had never really thought much at all of/about the more subtle things in all the exchanges between Qui and Obi until about a year ago when I watched TPM with the intention of doing some research for a fic. It was only when I really paid attention that I got how badly Obi-Wan must have felt in the 2nd Jedi Council scene and in the death scene. I wonder if the casual viewer caught this, because I sure didn't before.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  12. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    I think one Obi's greatest snide remarks comes at the very beginning, after the droids attack he goes to QGJ: You were right about one thing, Master. The negotiations were short.

    Also the scene really shows his confident bravado when he rescues the pilots, and says Leave them to me
  13. JediSF Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2004
    star 4
    Reflective of Vader's "leave them to me" line, also.
  14. JadeSolo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 6
    I wonder if the casual viewer caught this, because I sure didn't before.

    I did, and I really wanted to say something inappropriate to Qui-Gon. You don't throw away a loyal apprentice like that and without any warning.

    Then again, it was mostly a plot device to get Anakin back to Naboo, so I'm really not surprised that it happened. [face_plain]

    I wish Lucas had stuck to the original idea of having Obi-Wan go to Naboo alone at the beginning and then to Tatooine. TPM would've been much more exciting. [face_mischief] :p At least, I think that was his original idea...
  15. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    'I don't see Obi-Wan in TPM as the great, shining figure some of his fans seem to. I think he displays arrogance, haste, and anger. Some people seem to gloss over that'.

    Obi Wan was arrogant and seemed to view himself as above other common folk. Calling Jar Jar a pathetic life form and the way he boastfuly states that he will take care of the droids are examples of this. However, Kenobi shows a lot humility especially when he gets into the argument with Qui Gon and apologises.

    People complain that Lucas does not have character developement, but they forget that the films cover only a couple of weeks at most. The real character developement occurs from film to film.

    Now when you see AOTC you can see that Obi Wan has really blossomed. He has loss a lot of the arrogance and pointless twirls. He no longer does useless back flips and is less cocky. His wisdom is also demonstrated when he realises that Palpatine is corrupt, Anakin should not be left alone with Padme and tracing the dart back to Kamino. I really like the way that Obi Wan has been matured.

    Obi Wan perhaps looks even better when he is compared to Anakin in AOTC. OBi Wan never had Anakin's rudeness or disdain for rules. A small example of this is the fight on Tatooine between Maul and Qui Gon. Qui Gon orders Kenobi to take off and he immediately listens to advice and Qui Gon is able to escape. Contrast that with Anakin, who rushes off to Genosis and to fight Dooku despite clear orders not to.

    At first Anakin was by far my favourtie character, but once I started to compare even an arrogant OBi Wan to Anakin he comes out very favorable. Obi Wan unlike Anakin tries to learn from his mistakes and never stops improving as a Jedi. I believe by episdoe 3 Kenobi will have matured even more and be the greatets jedi ever surpassing even Yoda in skill and wisdom.
  16. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Obi Wan unlike Anakin tries to learn from his mistakes and never stops improving as a Jedi.

    *Precisely*. There are some really great parallels between TPM Obi-Wan and AOTC Anakin (and ANH Luke, for that matter). And when you look at these, it becomes very clear why Obi-Wan ends up being a legendary Jedi and why Anakin ends up turning the Dark Side, despite all his potential.

    I actually really love all the little arrogance things about Obi-Wan in the PT because Alec in ANH is humble, but still confident. He also has the air of a person who has learned the errors of his way and corrected them. He has the kind of confidence that no longer needs to be flaunted. In TPM, Obi-Wan looks down his nose at others. In AOTC, he asserts his power over Anakin. But he's changed by the OT and it makes for a great character arc. He's possibly the most dynamic character in the saga.

    The swagger Ewan adds to Obi-Wan's walk is just great :D I agree that the "I'll handle that" is awesome. It makes me grin everytime and kind of shake my head. Because Obi-Wan can handle some battle droids by himself, but just the way he does it is so great.

    My favourite TPM Obi-Wan line though has to be, "When they find us, they'll kill us, grind us into tiny pieces, and then BLAST us into oblivion!" The little sadistic grin on his face afterwards... [face_laugh] Such a jerk, but a loveable jerk.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
    -sj loves kevin spacey
  17. JadeSolo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 6
    Obi Wan was arrogant and seemed to view himself as above other common folk. Calling Jar Jar a pathetic life form and the way he boastfuly states that he will take care of the droids are examples of this. However, Kenobi shows a lot humility especially when he gets into the argument with Qui Gon and apologises.

    I agree with the last sentence, and more or less with the idea of his confidence and arrogance in dealing with the droids. But I never saw his "pathetic life form" comment as arrogance or anything like that. The way he said it and the expression on his face felt to me more like an old joke between Qui-Gon and him. Qui-Gon had a habit of making friends and picking up so-called strays - Obi-Wan, with his sense of humor, must have found some amusement in that behavior.

    Now when you see AOTC you can see that Obi Wan has really blossomed. He has loss a lot of the arrogance and pointless twirls. He no longer does useless back flips and is less cocky.

    Well, he's also 35, which is not really old, and he's in great shape, but he's not exactly 25, either. LOL, but I see what you're saying. Come to think of it, I didn't really notice that change in his fighting style before.

    One thing I definitely noticed is his strict adherence to the rules - all the "Council will not let you" talk. Which changes when he holds loyalty to his master above the Council's approval. I thought that was a nice little bit to throw in there.
  18. Skywalker_Vader2be Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2003
    star 2
    I think one Obi's greatest snide remarks comes at the very beginning, after the droids attack he goes to QGJ: You were right about one thing, Master. The negotiations were short.

    It's the way Obi-Wan just is. Wise beyond his years, yet casual and funny in a way.
  19. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Jade, I think the "pathetic lifeform" thing was Obi-Wan's attempt to make a joke out of it all, but I also sense a true begrudging of those not as intelligent or sophisticated as himself. It's the same kind of tone he uses to address Jar-Jar: "What's this?" You have to admit, he can be somewhat of a snob. And I know a snob when I see one because I can do the same thing when I get carried away.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  20. Green_Lightsaber Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    One of the reasons I love TPM is Obi-Wan's portrayal. McGregor nails the well-written part so well that any scene that Obi-Wan is in is automatically terrific. The relationship between him and his master is beautifully rendered - - one of the greatest lines in the movie is Qui-Gon's "I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight."

    Yes. The best of them all, I think. Oh, and his one-on-one duel with Maul is absolutely stunning.
  21. jEdI_kEnObI80 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2003
    star 2
  22. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I love that there's no music in that part. I mean, Duel of the Fates is such a powerful piece and it's beautiful. But it was really great that they chose to keep that part silent, because it lets the fight itself just be beautiful. It's full of the underlying energy of the story, still keeping the acting up, but it's also just an amazing fight. Ewan and Ray both did such a great job. It still blows me away.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  23. Skywalker_Vader2be Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2003
    star 2
    Yep. "Duel of the Fates" is great and all, but the silent duel of the fates is even more outstanding. ;)
  24. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah. I love ewan's face and body language right before he goes charging in. It's soo "You're gonna be in seven pieces when I'm done with you."
  25. jEdI_kEnObI80 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2003
    star 2
    *mutters, "this thread must not be stopped, this thread must not be stopped..."*

    *peek-a-boo* Anyone??? Okay, one Obi-Wan-related question for y'all: when it comes to a battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same age (i.e. Obi-Wan is 19, Anakin is 19, etc.), who will win?

    I'm putting my two cents on Anakin for some reason, because that kid already has his mind made up that he's going to wear a big black helmet and suit and be the "most powerful Jedi ever" when he grows up. No offence to the Anakin fanatics, but Anakin is just Superman v2 ("I'm going to stop people from dying").
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