***The Official Obi-Wan Kenobi Eps II & III Discussion and Speculation Thread: Part 5***

Obi-1 Kenobi is the best all around Jedi in the saga. First we see him as an old man then as a spirit then as a young headstrong padawan learner then a Jedi Master with his own padawan learner. The character is more legendary than Anakin Skywalker and even Luke. I feel Obi-1 should be a little more powerful and battled hardened by Episode III. We all thought that Anakin was this great pilot. When I saw Obi-1's piloting skills in AOTC, I was totally amazed. Maybe Anakin will show us why he was the best star pilot in the galaxy in the next episode. But thus far, Obi-1 Kenobi has proven to be just as good a pilot as Han Solo or perhaps even better.

 

Well, HAPPY NEW YEAR, everyone! It brings warm feelings to my heart to know that LOTS and LOTS of EIII little spoilers will start coming our way in 2003!

Old Juan Actually, I thought Obi-Wan did a pretty good job putting the clues together
Really well-put, as is the rest of your post. That is what I was TRYING to say, that Obi-Wan comes across as an excellent investigative Jedi. The way he sums up the events on Geonosis moments before capture, is wonderful. I think he is shown to be rather intelligent: he has doubts about Palpatine and he is starting to ask the right questions by the end of AotC. He is just not very upfront about it.

Ewan Kenobi I think that scene more acurately shows their relationship, then any of their misunderstandings.
I agree. If Qui-Gon was always an uncaring jerk to Obi-Wan, then I would find it disturbing that Obi-Wan thought so highly of this "jerk" and was so devoted to him in life and death.

but a sort of 'force arm wrestling' match
LOL. Yes, that's what it looks like. See the strain on Obi-Wan's face. And who's to say whether Dooku is using a bit of the dark side Force, which we are NOW told, is stronger in the short run?

Hi bad radio No hard feelings, as long as you don't say bad things about Obi-Wan that I don't agree with!

Trying to change or control the future, however, is a form of ambition whose flickering intensity always leads into the morass. This is one of the reasons I think the Jedi of AOTC are losing their ability to use the Force?they are under the illusion that they can influence this aspect of the Force.
IMO, being in touch with the Unifying Force, does NOT mean trying to control or influence the future. Nowehere in SW, do we see the Jedi trying to INFLUENCE the future: that is clearly Sid's game plan. Unifying Force, IMO, means weighing the future consequences, as well as the broader consequences of an action, before plunging in. For example, Qui-Gon believes so strongly that Anakin has to become a Jedi, that he ignores the consequences of "de-attaching" him from his mother, since as a Jedi, Anakin would be expected to give up attachments.

See, I still believe that Anakin should never have been trained in the Jedi arts: not because of the "rules", his age, the emergence of the Sith at the end of TPM, etc, but because of the "fear/anger" in him, that Yoda points out. This is where, IMO, Qui-Gon, as well as Obi-Wan and the Council (-Yoda) at the end of TPM, made the mistake.
Note that for Luke, though he was much older, there were no strong "attachments" to break or "fear" to get rid of.

Falls_the_Shadow yes, nicely applicable as Obi-Wan says goodbye to his former life and takes off to Tatooine to gurad Luke. I especially like
But it's not the world that I am changing
I do this so this world will know
That it will not change me .

Darth Kruel When I saw Obi-1's piloting skills in AOTC, I was totally amazed.
You're not alone! I thought that was quite an eye-opener, after hearing during the Coruscant chase that "master doesn't like flying."
Little foreshadow that Anakin doesn't know EVERYTHING about master??

About Obi-Wan in AotC: really, I think that the Coruscant, Kamino, and Geonosis sequences are all pretty wonderful as far as Obi-Wan is concerned. It would have been nice if he had done a bit more against Dooku. Also, a nice touch would have been if he had killed off Jango in the arena. But then Mace would have had prcatically NO accomplishments in the PT so far!

 

Hello, cool people! I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year. I too, forever_jedi, cannot wait til the spoilers start a-comin'.

When I was talking about the Dooku/Obi-Wan part of the fight in response to forever_jedi's question(which I really liked, it's the kind of question that spurs discussion), I was talking about the appearance, not that there was really anything wrong with it. I mean I think there are aspects of it which could have been filmed better, but in terms of how it fits in the scheme of things, I like it. Obi-Wan was exhausted by this point and now he has to take on ALONE a well rested, more experienced former Jedi Master who is using the Dark Side. Though he is injured, he keeps all his limbs intact. He put up a very fine showing in actuality.

I took her question as a "what if" type question, but within the bounds of the story as we have it and that was pretty much all I could come up with, a better showing against Dooku. The same with the other things, the assassin droid, not kicking himself off the platform. I LOVED the Kamino fight sequence and I loved the "Oh not good", one of the funniest lines in the film, but in terms of looking stronger and better, those things might have helped. I think Obi-Wan had alot of the best scenes--Jango's apartment was wonderful, you could feel the tension, Dooku's trying to get him to join with him while he's held captive. I know I enjoyed watching him fighting on Geonosis alot more than any of the others, he's got style and grace even when he's getting knocked down by a Reek.

Falls The Shadow, that's a nice ballad. You may not post here much but you always seem to come up with good stuff like that when you do. I'm not into country, but I've got nothing against Garth Brooks, he does have a good voice.

On a less serious point, notice Obi-Wan could stay on a ship virtually alone in the private quarters with a dozen Padme clones yet still honor the Jedi code.

LOL!!! Although there is some fanfiction out there that would love to believe it was otherwise.

E-K, I can't believe I just noticed your icon! That's quite some come hither look Princess Leia is giving.

I don't see Obi-Wan as being 'under the radar' at all. Every Jedi he seems to meet up with seems to know exactly who he is, despite the number of Jedi, size of the temple, the busy Jedi life and time away on missions. Even the younglings.


What I mean by that isn't related to the here and now, I'm talking about future history. Those Jedi in the Temple know him, some of them grew up with him, some of them know him from missions, some of them know he defeated that Sith ten some odd years ago. The Jedi Temple is really more like a relatively small town even though it is a very big Temple, there aren't that many Jedi there. Besides I have no problem with Obi-Wan being wherever he may be in terms of "fame", he's great whether anyone two hundred years from then(had they not been destroyed of course) would have realized it or not. The use of the word "legendary" on that calender just made me questions its real application though.

As for those that hold him in high esteem, why should that be seen? As humble jedi, praise should be shown as few and far between.

I think you misinterpret what I mean by "seen". I didn't mean we should have them all saying "Oh wow what a great Jedi that Obi-Wan Kenobi is"(cringing at the very thought). While part of me loved hearing that Qui-Gon and Yoda thought highly of him, part of me just thought it was too blatant which just actually illustrates part of my point. The only reason such lines were necessary is because it isn't really shown. Like for instance being listened to once in a while by said people who supposedly think highly of him, having his opinion carry some weight(and that is entirely different from them believing his reports back from the field), that kind of thing.

But really, should he have to explain himself? Obi-Wan *was* ready, and he felt st

 

Little foreshadow that Anakin doesn't know EVERYTHING about master??

I'm still endlessly impressed by those sonic charges. I think that is one of the coolest sound effects ever. I'm so glad Obi-Wan was involved in that scene. It was never said Obi-Wan couldn't fly, just that he didn't like it. And with Anakin as the pilot, can't say as I blame him.

Anyone notice the similarity between Anakin's cackle during the Coruscant chase as he's bearing down on that big transport and Boba Fett's during during the chase through the Geonosis rings?

Old Juan, actually none of those situations came into my consideration. I was more talking about the stuff that isn't so obvious. There isn't anything wrong with him asking Yoda and Mace about ordering the army, especially seeing as Yoda just went into his unnecessary little schpiel about needing to keep an open mind. I wouldn't even call what Obi-Wan had an "assumption", he was on Kamino, he had good reason to believe this was the case, for some reason Yoda just chose to take it as an assumption.

Once on Geonosis, after discovering the driod army and such. He lays it all out for Yoda and the others.

Didn't he hear all that though? All those organizations were there discussing going against the Republic and Dooku and the TF are talking about the assassination attempts. Brave for walking into the lions den, definitely, don't know how clever reeling off that list of facts that have been clearly layed for him is though.

I would think that the fact that the template for these Clones which are supposedly being made for the Republic is obviously working for the Seperatists would cause some serious questioning of what kind of connection these two things have. The closest we get to anything is that he insists to Dooku that Jango is there and basically is letting Dooku know he knows that Dooku knows it. But even by the end, Obi-Wan still flat out doesn't seem to believe anything that Dooku told him about the Senate and the Sith. He asks if Mace and Yoda do, and basically says "It doesn't feel right" as in he doesn't believe any of it. Mace seems to put more stock in it then he does. Yet he's the one who earlier in the film was talking about how the politicians are easily bought and how even Palpatine wasn't quite so good as he seemed. If he'd at least seemed to put some credence in what Dooku said(not to Dooku's face but later at least). I'd certainly expect him to wonder about Dooku's motives in telling him such a thing, but to totally discount it with what he knows is something else.

We see that the Seperatists and their droids, Dooku, Jango and the Clones which were claimed by the Republic but made for them without their apparent knowledge are somehow connected. This is clear, yet this doesn't really seem to trouble Obi-Wan at all. I'm not saying it doesn't trouble him, but it doesn't appear to trouble him on film.

It's like Obi-Wan is clever and smart in the beginning of the film but by the end he's lost some IQ points. As I said I wouldn't expect him to have made any serious inroads to figuring it out, it's much too early, but it isn't even played like he's questioning in generally the right direction. Obi-Wan may be supposed to be a certain way, but it's not written nor directed in such a way as to show it.

We are talking about the people who thought it made the Jedi look weak to have some tiny inkling of what was going on, so that was part of the reason they cut the Obi/Mace Jedi starfighter scene. Fine, they felt the need to cut it, it happens. But that has to be the most senseless excuse I've ever heard for doing so. They made the Jedi appear to be more clueless yet for some reason felt this made them appear stronger. I'm still scratching my head over that one.

Now about kicking himself over the ledge: He managed to get his hands out of that rope while falling and wrap it around a girder, he couldn't have gotten them out before he got pulled over the side? The way it's played it really isn't

 

...hope everyone had a safe n' sane new years!

Here's my two cents into the mix....

There's been alot of talk about how Anakin has an attitude towards Obi-Wan...beyond his obvious mewlings to Padme in the film. I just wanted to remind folks (if it hadn't been brought up already) that back in PM, right before Qui-Gon explains midi-cholorians to Ani...the kid hears Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon arguing over him...."The boy is dangerous...they all sense it, why can't you?" It's no wonder that on top of everything else the kid is dealing with, he knows that the guy training him DID'NT WANT THE JOB in the first place and is doing it out of duty to his former master...I think THAT has as much to do with the attitude Ani throws at Obi-Wan as anything.
Another interesting ingridient we were shown in AOTC is the connection between Dooku & Qui-Gon. It's interesting to see where some of that defiance comes from....
Well...I'll let you more verbse & capable folks get on with the discussion....and just enjoy readn' it...

 

...hope everyone had a safe n' sane new years!

Here's my two cents into the mix....

There's been alot of talk about how Anakin has an attitude towards Obi-Wan...beyond his obvious mewlings to Padme in the film. I just wanted to remind folks (if it hadn't been brought up already) that back in PM, right before Qui-Gon explains midi-cholorians to Ani...the kid hears Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon arguing over him...."The boy is dangerous...they all sense it, why can't you?" It's no wonder that on top of everything else the kid is dealing with, he knows that the guy training him DID'NT WANT THE JOB in the first place and is doing it out of duty to his former master...I think THAT has as much to do with the attitude Ani throws at Obi-Wan as anything.
Another interesting ingridient we were shown in AOTC is the connection between Dooku & Qui-Gon. It's interesting to see where some of that defiance comes from....
Well...I'll let you more verbse & capable folks get on with the discussion....and just enjoy readn' it...

 

Yeah, Obi-Wan did hear the discussion between Dooku and the other seperatists. But you know what, just what he saw alone he would have figured it out. Listening in on the conversation only merely confirmed what he most likely figured out.

As far the Sidious controlling the senate, thats something he simply doesn't want to believe is true. He knows things are bad, but doesn't want to believe it's at that level. Plus he knows of Dooku's treachery so Obi-Wan naturally isn't going to take his word for. I don't think any honest person would. When you can't trust someone, it hard to believe anything they may say. Be it the truth or not.

 

Actually, if you watch the scene in TPM, Anakin and R2-D2 are pretty far behind when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are discussing "the kid" and it's only by the time they are finished and Obi-Wan has been dismissed that Anakin finally catches up. So Anakin did not hear anything. Qui-Gon would not be foolish enough to agrue with Obi-Wan about Anakin right in front of him. Anakin already knows he's caused tension between Qui-Gon and the other Jedi Masters. Hence he tells Qui-Gon that he doesn't want to be trouble.

Just to play the devils advocate, if Anakin did indeed heard Obi-Wan's complaints, it obviously isn't playing apart in his(Ani)resentment of Obi-Wan now. His resentment for Obi-Wan comes at what he feels like is a slow pace of training. As far their relationship in and of itself, Anakin considers Obi-Wan the father figure he never had. So obviously Obi-Wan has changed his perspective of Anakin over the years and he(Ani)is aware of that. If Anakin considers Obi-Wan a father figure like he says he does, then Anakin ultimately forgave Obi-Wan his initial missgivings. But like I explained above, I don't think Anakin even heard Qui-Gon's and Obi-Wan's discussion, so it wouldn't even factor in the first place.

 

sono-jedi The Dooku-Qui-Gon connection is also interesting in that it establishes Yoda's line. Both Yoda and Obi-Wan had padawans that turned into Sith lords. They both survived the purge and jointly trained Luke who carried on their line and brought the Jedi back.

Yes, much has been made of "the boy is dangerous." I don't think it plays a part any more in AotC. It's fairly clear that Anakin has love and affection for Obi-Wan - Hayden's commentary in the DVD also supports this. The problem is Anakin's lack of respect for Obi-Wan's teachings and methods. Together with the fact that he is impatient for more power and wants to be independent. As Lucas says in his commentary, Anakin has a tendency to blame all the Jedi for his shortcomings, not just Obi-Wan.

Regarding Obi-Wan's comment at the end about a Sith controlling the senate, I agree also, that he just can't bring himself to acknowledge a disaster of this magnitude. It's just like ESB, where Luke simply can't believe that Vader is his father. He KNOWS deep inside his heart, though he asks Yoda in RotJ. Similarly, I think deep inside Obi-Wan is starting to suspect that Dooku may be correct, but waits for the confirmation to come from his superiors. In his place, Anakin or Qui-Gon would say, "I have NO DOUBT Dooku was right." It's just not Obi-Wan's way. But the fact that he brings it up out of the blue, hints that he's smelling a rat.

naw ibo then apparently Obi-Wan for some reason was devoted to a rather uncaring, insensitive jerk in life and death. He'd hardly be the first guy to have misplaced loyalty.

Yes, there are plenty of people who have misplaced loyalties. It's just that from what I see of Obi-Wan (in the entire saga), I wouldn't place him in that category. Somehow, it makes him less perceptive, intelligent, very needy. He is, after all, a great Jedi: he would be able to discern less than honorable motives in his master.

 

Hi, everyone! Been out for a while due to the holidays. Hope everyone here had a lovely Christmas and a Wonderful New Year!

I have been reading all the long posts but haven't been able to finish them all tonight. I'll be back tomorrow to respond to the good points made.

Hello and welcome to the newcomers!

Lady Sami

 

Yes Naw, I love my icon! They'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands! You make bank on that missy!


bad radio, when talking about newly released movies, it's usually good not to give away the ending.

I think in that scene Anakin definately does hear Obi-Wan talking about him. They start their arguement inside the ship, but he's there for the end of it.
Now I don't think that plays into his resentment. It just makes him feel unwelcome, but Obi-Wan most likely either talks about it with him after the movie, or Anakin just forgets. IMO
I do love that scene though, partly for the tension between the two, and because Obi-Wan *was* out of line. Clearly it wasn't the brightest idea in the world for Anakin to be trained, or the way Qui went about it. But it wasn't Obi-Wan's place to give his master hell about it (as he realises) and I think part of that is because he did feel hurt. Not to meantion he should have been more careful about making sure Anakin didn't hear him. I do believe what Qui-Gon said; "He's not dangerous, his fate is uncertain. The council will decide Anakin's fate, that should be enough for you."

I do think that's key, no matter what your opinion is, it's the council's decision. Qui had to at least bring Anakin to the council, he was a 'vergance' as they say. He may have intended to train him, but it was still their decision. And Obi-Wan calling him dangerous, was IMO about the only time I've seen him be judgemental. But I do think it was again, from hurt.

Alright, I'm babbeling and have no point to make, so byebye!

 

Hi E-K, I have no doubt you love your icon. It is a very pretty icon. It makes me jealous.

I do agree it may not have been the best place for Obi-Wan to disagree with Qui-Gon. He apologizes for this. The other thing I think Obi-Wan was in error on was when he rushed to agree that he was ready for the trials. I think both of these errors came out of hurt and rejection he initially felt, things he rather quickly got over. I would also point out that Qui-Gon and the Council had just been discussing that very same subject right in front of Anakin so I don't think either of them had a problem with that part of the subject.

But I don't think it ties into the problems Obi-Wan and Anakin are having in AOTC, I think it is Anakin's craving for power and his resentment at the pace of his training because he believes he is more ready than he actually is that is a bigger part of it and that a bigger part still are things that Obi-Wan really had no control over, things that happened to Anakin and shaped him before he ever was found by the Jedi. I also think that part of the reason the problems escalalate is because on some level after he's off on his own and screwing up, he knows on some level that Obi-Wan was right, he really wasn't ready and he has too much pride to admit it.

I always found it rather hypocritical for Qui-Gon in that scene on the platform to suddenly turn around and use the Council like that, "if it's good enough for the Council, it should be good enough for you", when he doesn't practice what he's preaching.

 

LOL at how you all keep bashing Qui-Gon like he is the devil!

If not for him, balance would never be brought. He was considerate to Obi and Anakin. You could see the conflict in his face, his expressions. And remember, its a SW movie. GL isnt going to dwell on those scenes alot which is why we dont see lots of it, but it is implied. Thats the way GL directs so you have to accept it.

Other than making sure the chosen one was trained, I have never seen an instance where Qui-Gon was using his higher power for an excuse to bend the rules and be selfish, etc like you guys say. Sheesh, give the guy a break! If I were in the same shoes, I'd do just about anything to free him.

Now if he pulled out his lightsabre on Watto, threatening to kill him, then your arguments would be valid. He is a great man, a visionary amidst stagnant Jedi who cant see past their own tunics. Mace Windu even confirms their powers are twindling. Cut Qui-Gon some slack.

 

Yess... preetty icon... itss miine, my own...... my preciouss it iss!! *CoughGollumCough* *strokes icon*

Also, I don't think anything is said about the trials whatsoever, so Qui-Gon not suppose to tell Obi-Wan doesn't have any basis that I've seen.

 

Hi E-K Yes, your icon sure is nice. You know, people go on and on about Padme in AotC. But almost twenty years later, Leia is still super plasma-hot in her gold bikini! Plus, Leia has tons more sense than Mom, and has a stronger personality!

And then there's the most famous (IMO) quote from ANH:
"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi; you are my only hope."

The girl had taste too!

 

I did say it was something that was my opinion, re: the trials. The reason I do is because it appears to be a test for Anakin being sent with Padme to Naboo, a fairly important one being his first solo mission, even though probably not "the trials", yet this is never brought up to him and he shows no concern for the possible importance of this mission(which just shows either total overconfidence or just cluelessness, because common sense should tell one that one's first solo mission is going to be very important).

But it's just a part of it anyway, my opinion stands even if that isn't the case. The whole situation was handled very poorly on Qui-Gon's part. He showed impatience and lack of consideration for consequences. This is in direct contrast to the patience Yoda and Obi-Wan must show in order to help get them out it. I think that is an important point of comparison, Qui-Gon's rush to take him off Tatooine and have him trained, Anakin's impatience with his training, Anakin and Padme's rush to get married, etc, etc.

E-K, I still love Leia, in a girly, admiration type of way . I surely wish I looked as good as her in a gold bikini. I admire Padme's intelligence, but otherwise, I was actually more impressed with her as a 14 year old in TPM than as a grown woman in AOTC.

And then there's the most famous (IMO) quote from ANH:
"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi; you are my only hope."

The girl had taste too!

That she surely did.

LOL at how you all keep bashing Qui-Gon like he is the devil!

DarthBane93, we do not all keep bashing Qui-Gon like he is the devil. I do. Don't go putting my opinions into the mouths of the innocent.

I have never seen an instance where Qui-Gon was using his higher power for an excuse to bend the rules and be selfish,

I never said he used his "higher power" for anything. It doesn't matter if he was just some guy who ran the local candy store his behavior was still ill-considered. It actually has little to do with his using of his Jedi powers.

If I were in the same shoes, I'd do just about anything to free him.

I don't think anyone here has objected to Anakin's freedom. In fact I think the point some have made is that the problem starts when Qui-Gon goes for more than simply setting Anakin free. That's when he "over did it".

 

Ah, didn't see that Naw, my apologies.

My feelings on Anakin's mission was that it wasn't suppose to be a big deal. Sure first missions are probably only suppose to be given to those ready for them, but Anakin was basically suppose to carry her baggage back to Naboo then have picnics. At least the way I read it was the master might need to have some part in telling the council beforehand when the apprentice is ready to be on his own alittle, but that might not be correct. It could be up to the council totally.

As for Padme, I actually like both her in TPM, and in AOTC. She was the strong type in TPM, but I think AOTC shows her as being more human. She's a strong intelligent ruler, besides being slightly naive (to Palps) and is a great public servant, but she his vulnerable emotionally. I liked seeing that side about her, that she's far from perfect. I think in AOTC the love story got too much crap, I think the brilliant part about it is in TPM they have an innocent kind of pure love and affection, but they both kind of ruin it in AOTC. Anakin's posecessive, and Padme ignores Anakin's problems instead of trying to help him.

Some people focus too much on the obvious things in AOTC then to notice the subtle ways innocence is corrupted.
But I guess that's always true with star wars, the critics complain about Jar Jar not appealing to their cynicals selves and they miss all the underlying themes.




*tears the thread apart looking for his precious*

No!! Nooo!! Lost? Lost! LOOOOSST!!! Curse you filthy thievess we hatess you forrEVER!!

*falls on the floor, a pathetic weeping cursing sack of bones*

 

Fair enough.

I do hope to see more Obi in EpIII though. He was the best part of AOTC.

 

naw ibo and forever_jedi, thanks for noticing.

An understated beauty of the prequels is that they show that the awe-inspiring, patient, and wise elder wasn't always so and gained that wisdom by bitter experience in his duels with the fates, figuratively and literally.

I wonder if Ep III will show why Kenobi is so willing to accept Luke at age 18 in ANH when he is so much like his father who was the dangerous boy. Why doesn't Kenobi at least raise the child himself as a padawan?

naw ibo, yes, I am quite aware of the fan fics of Kenobi. I recommend "First Knight" (no Amidala or handmaiden, but high mush factor). The link is in my profile page. McGregor would be an excellent choice for some grand romantic role.

E-K LOL at your Gollum impression over your lost Santa Leia in slave bikini icon. All is not lost: there is a non-Christmas version of that icon. Go to "choose your icon" and select category "Return of the Jedi" and go to page 3. There's your precious, without her Santa hat.

 

Double post, sorry.

 

>>>> I always found it rather hypocritical for Qui-Gon in that scene on the platform to suddenly turn around and use the Council like that, "if it's good enough for the Council, it should be good enough for you", when he doesn't practice what he's preaching.

That?s just it. Qui-Gon is trying to teach Obi-Wan that the Jedi Council isn?t the ultimate meaning of a Jedi?s life. I saw a few pages back the references to the book Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa. I would like to add that Iori, Musashi?s second apprentice, constantly pushes Musashi to join the shogun?s court, just like Obi-Wan pushes Qui-Gon to try to get on the Jedi Council. (Serving in the shogun?s court was considered by some to be the apex of a samurai?s life. To be able to take your ideas, your values, and implement them at the highest level of government was something that every ambitious samurai yearned for.) Musashi gets an opportunity near the end of the book to be appointed as the shogun?s tutor, but right before the interview with the shogun regarding the job, Musashi starts to have reservations. He is reluctant to take the job because he feels that being part of the shogun?s court would keep him from discovering the Way of the Warrior?that being preoccupied with serving the government would keep him from knowing the meaning of life. Despite his reservations, he goes on with the interview because his friends went through great pains to set up the meeting. However, something peculiar happens that derails his encounter with the shogun.

The book sets things up to make you believe that Musashi is a shoo-in, but it is revealed during the meeting that Musashi?s good name has been tarnished. A rival samurai, Kojiro Sasaski, has been publicly denouncing Musashi, spinning Musashi?s good deeds and heroics into propaganda that misrepresents Musashi as an unethical and bad person. The shogun at the last minute gets wind of this and decides not to meet with Musashi and instead sends his retainer, Tadakatsu, to deliver the bad news that the appointment has been canceled:

---

Tadakatsu nodded several times, causing his double chin to shake. ?Many thanks for your trouble,? he said, but then went on in an apologetic vein. ?With regard to your appointment to official position, for which you were recommended by the priest Takuan and the Lord Hojo of Awa, there was, last evening, a sudden change in the shogun?s plans. As a result, you will not be engaged. Since several of us were not satisfied with the decision, the Council of Elders reviewed this matter today. In fact, we have been discussing it until just now. We took the question to the shogun again. I am sorry to say that we were unable to alter this latest decision.?

There was a sympathy in his eyes, and he seemed for a moment to be searching for words of consolation. ?In our fleeting world,? he went on, ?this sort of thing happens all the time. You mustn?t let yourself be annoyed by what people say about you. In matters having to do with official appointments, it is often difficult to tell whether one has been fortunate or unfortunate.?

Musashi, still bowing, said, ?Yes, sir.?

Tadakatsu?s words were music to his ears. Gratitude swelled from the bottom of his heart, filling his whole body.

?I understand the decision, sir. I am grateful to you.? The words came out naturally. Musashi was not concerned with face, nor was he being ironic. [b]He felt that a being greater than the shogun had just bestowed on him an appointment much higher than that of official tutor. The word of the gods had been vouchsafed to him.[/b][hr][/blockquote]Musashi later explains the incident to his friend, Gonnosuke:

[blockquote][hr]?The appointment was canceled,? Musashi said with a laugh.

?Canceled? Are you joking??

?No. I consider it a good thing, too.?

?I don?t understand. Do you know what went wrong??

?I saw no reason to ask. I?m grateful to heaven for the way it turned out.?

?But it seems a pity.?

[b] ?Are even you of the opinion I can find glory only within the walls of

 

Sorry for going missing the last couple days(yeah, I know, "darn it, she's back!" ), those "4 hours of sleep" nights caught up with me the last few days(along with moving to a new office building) and I really haven't had energy for anything "involved" on the boards. I got six hours of sleep last night though, so I'm feeling a bit refreshed.

I have been quite pleased to see how well Obi-Wan was doing on the favorite character thread though. I've loved him since he was a little old man. But I'm still totally impressed with how Ewan's totally made this role his own, while still keeping that strong connection to the Alec Guinness Obi-Wan, so that it's easy to see them as the same person. There that thread of wit, nobility, gentleness and strength of character that runs through the characterization.

 

Hey yo! Apparently some real spoilers have come out on the Ep III board from Chyren(remember him? ). Jovieve also just posted on the Ep III Obi-Wan thread and so did I, so pay a visit. We'll probably have to start getting used to posting over there soon.

 

Hi Naw,

Just left a rambling message directed at you and the 'spoilers' on the Ep III Obi-Wan thread. Check it out.


Sorry I haven't commented on the Japanese symbolism, but I know next to nothing about Japanese cinema or literature. And I can feel my eyes glazing over...It was an interesting read, though, don't get me wrong.

 

Hi folks! YES! YES! The spoilers have started dripping in and suddenly life is so full of fun! Do visit the EIII (spoilers) Obi-Wan thread, since we can start some great discussions about our "hero".

Discussions on the EIII boards about AotC brought up something that I hadn't consciously thought of before. Remember how Anakin loses his "humanity" by the OT and becomes "more machine than man"? And how this process starts with the fight against Dooku? Well, in that fight, he expressly disobeys Obi-Wan and rushes in only to be defeated later and get his arm cut off. So, it is his OWN bad decision that STARTS him on the path to dehumanization. It is clear in this incident that no one else is responsible!

bad radio The above excerpts could have easily been Qui-Gon meeting with the Jedi Council, or it could have easily been Qui-Gon telling Obi-Wan why he doesn?t mind not being on the Council.

If one considers the entire SW saga, then Obi-Wan is clearly modeled after Musashi. Not Qui-Gon. The world considers Obi-Wan "an old wizard", but he knows that he remains very special to the Force. That is his reward.