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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

The *Official* OT changes/SEs/ Archival discussion thread.

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Darth Dark Helmet, Apr 16, 2002.

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  1. Darth Dark Helmet

    Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 1999
    This thread is for all discussion about changes that have been made to the OT through the SEs, or changes you would like to see in in the forthcoming Archival Editions.

    Please remember to keep discussion civil, and to always respect the opinions of others. Just because they don't agree with you that Greedo shooting first doesn't matter to them, does not mean they are an idiot and Movie illiterate.

    And try and keep things as discussions, and don't let things degenerate into a Basher/Gusher war.

    So, Enjoy! :D

    YJ edit: Fixing the spelling of "Official" in the title. ;)
     
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. Radiohead

    Radiohead Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Ok. I put this on one of the OT change threads, so I might as well put it in here:

    These are the main changes I want to see (and there aren't a lot of them at all):

    ANH: Integrate "Darth Vader's Theme" in the movie somewhere. I think the perfect place is when he first enters Leia's consular ship.

    ESB: Redub Clive Revill's voice with Ian McDiarmid's.

    RotJ: Um... I can't think of any right now.

    Other than that, keep everything the same.
     
  3. ferelwookie

    ferelwookie Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2001
    ANH: ditch all of the special edition stuff...no Jabba, even if they fix the FX, the scene is a re-hash of what Greedo and Han just disscussed! The improved FX in the DS battle can stay, I guess...but I'd only leave minor stuff like that and the intro the Mos Eisley...other than that, leave ANH the way it was!

    ESB: no changes. I feel the SE didn't hurt it that much (although the Vader line "bring my shuttle" should be back) and seeing him board the Star Destroyer at the end is not necessary. Replace the Emperor with McDirmand.

    ROTJ: I would defintely LEAVE IN the SE version ending which gives us a bigger picture of the galaxy. I would defintely TAKE OUT "Jedi Rocks"...because it doesn't. Fix the "blobs" around the Emperor's cloak.

    Other than minor FX touch ups I don't think the ultimate editions should tamper with these classic any more than Lucas (wrongly, in my opinion) has. SW doesn't need any more cute cgi critters or happy dance numbers or fart jokes. My MAIN hope for the U.E. is that the DVD's will have an opition in which you can watch the ORIGINAL "untouched" theatrical releases in all their glory. Now, there's a dream come true!
     
  4. Isiah

    Isiah Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2002
    And what if we want no changes, where do we go then? Oh wait, you locked my thread! I'm not bitter...


    **writes Darth Dark Helmet's name in on People to Kill List, then puts on lipstick**

    Kidding!
     
  5. Darth Dark Helmet

    Darth Dark Helmet Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 1999
    Bah! I have my own list. ;)

    Then use this thread to discuss your reasons why you don't feel anymore changes are necessary. Refute their points with sound logic and valor. :)
     
  6. MasterDownUnder

    MasterDownUnder Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Hey there!

    They definitely need to change the lightsabers in ANH because in every other movie the colors are more vibrant - Luke's is actually not true blue - more of a washed out cyan, not the deep blue we see during the Duel in Cloud City. During the Duel on the Death Star, the sabers need to have their colour 'filled in', given more colour -Vader's looks almost a washed out pink, and Obi-Wan's is a washed out sky blue.

    The scene you see in the Behind the Magic CD-Rom - the Bigg's Anchorhead scene - should be touched up and reinserted.

    In the cantina, the Shistafan (spelling) Wolf Man replacement should be ditched and returned to his former glory - the low threatening growl doesn't match the poxy looking alien that's sipping it's drink, plus the subsequent scene where the unknown creature(?) is talking(?) with him.
    Also they need to do something serious with Jabba in ANH - he look absolutely stupid! and the appearance of Boba Fett is a silly addition because it looks out of place and tacky.

    The two scenes where the Falcon flies out of a landing bay under fire - Mos Eisley and the Death Star, the retractable laser cannon should be seen, and/or used to aid the escape - I think it is in the Mos Eisly b'cos the think red bolts that tear into the Stormtroopers and the docking bay aren't Han's DL-44!

    Fix the dialogue differences with Vader's voice in Empire SE "Alert my Star Destroyer to await my arrival"

    There is a scene on Dagobah in the original novelisation where Luke is Saber fighting a pair of seeker balls that he eventually beats and then Yoda summons two more. I think he get knocked unconscious from their stun bolts because Artoo is telling Yoda what for later on!

    With Jedi, the Force communication between Father and Son should be reinserted along with the music for it and the scene where Luke puts his new lightsaber into Artoo and records Jabba's message.

    Take out the Jedi Rocks scene - it's stupid, especially the corny Boba Fett flirting bit!

    The changed dialogue during the movies - most notably - Lando: "No wait, I thought you were blind?"

    Han: "Trust me." (I'm not sure of the exact change off hand, but you can see his mouth move for the original but the sound doesn't match up. I think most of you will know what I'm talking about here.

    Plus all the shots and scenes which were dropped due to time constraints, too violent not good enough - touch them up with ILM, plus new scenes that are USEFUL to the story.

    Plus, they should all be in WIDESCREEN ONLY! No cut and shut Pan Scan crap! It's bad enough watching the movies on TV and missing half of the peripheral action without buying a copy of it like that! EG: during the "look sir, droids!" scene, there is an Gamma Class Asault Shuttle that takes off as the shot open - you don't see it in the Cut and Shut version.

    I hope this works, b'cos we deserve the best from the best! George Lucas and Lucasfilm. Bring it on! And it will never be too long! We're fans George, the more the better!

    Skywalker Sound and ILM - the ultimate movie making team!

    See Ya'!
     
  7. obi_wan_skiniobi

    obi_wan_skiniobi Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2002
    i'd like to see shots like this added when space craft are approaching planets in the OT. yes i know that this is from episode II but the are shots i'd like to see.
    Naboo Freighter Landing
     
  8. SkottASkywalker

    SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2002
    I'm for additional scenes, because I'm for more STAR WARS.
     
  9. PruneF8ce

    PruneF8ce Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2002
    i'd like to see shots like this added when space craft are approaching planets in the OT. yes i know that this is from episode II but the are shots i'd like to see.

    Me too. It relates the scope and sense of size better than a lot of shots in particularly ANH. That shot is beautiful!
     
  10. HanSolo29

    HanSolo29 RPF/SWC/Fan Art Manager & Bill Pullman Connoisseur star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2001
    Personally, I don't want anymore changes. People just seem to be upset about the changes that were made in the SE. (ex: Greedo shooting first, CGI Jabba, Jedi Rocks etc.) If this rumored Archival Edition is made, it will only make more people upset with the changes that come about...including myself.

    I believe the Archival Edition is just an excuse to fix up problems that Lucas created with the PT.(ex: Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan instead of Yoda, midi-chlorians, Anakin building Threepio, etc.) Whatever happened to making the PT fit in with the OT? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? That's how I see it, anyway.
     
  11. Lukecash

    Lukecash Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2001
    If lucas adds a few more scenes to tie in continuity from the PT, I won't complain too much...perhaps a scene of Aldaraan, before it gets blown up..good.

    I never had any problem with any of the changes that he did for But I think, and I hope-that Lucas will consider re-releasing the orignal trillogy as an added disk DVD.
     
  12. SLAVE2

    SLAVE2 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    I believe the Archival Edition is just an excuse to fix up problems that Lucas created with the PT.(ex: Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan instead of Yoda, midi-chlorians, Anakin building Threepio, etc.) Whatever happened to making the PT fit in with the OT? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? That's how I see it, anyway.

    Thats not true. You really think these extra scenes will be to do with C3PO and Anakin? or About QuiGon training Obiwan? I dont think so, more like putting the real Emperor in ESB, or fixing things like Lukes lightsaber, or having TPM Jabba in ANH.
     
  13. HanSolo29

    HanSolo29 RPF/SWC/Fan Art Manager & Bill Pullman Connoisseur star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2001
    Fixing the Emperor in ESB, the lightsabers in ANH, and changing Jabba in ANH I have no problems with. But from what I heard about the Archival Edition, it's gonna be more than that. I heard they are gonna add Qui-Gon somewhere, a Senate scene in ANH, Bail Organa to ANH. It seems to me that everything that is going to be changed is gonna make the OT fit in with what happened in the PT. And that...I'm against.
     
  14. Lord_Of_Deadside

    Lord_Of_Deadside Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2001
    Everyone hates change. People bitched about the SE's, and people will bitch about the AE's. What I suggest is that Lucas include both the original versions of the OT and the Archival Editions for the DVD release, as someone here already suggested. That way, people like myself who want more connections with the PT in the OT will be happy, and those who'd prefer to see the original, untouched versions will be happy as well.

    As for what I'd like to see in the Archival Editions, it would mainly be those PT additions mentioned here such as the senate scene, and I would like to see Qui-Gon's 'spirit' standing next to Obi-wan, Yoda, and Anakin at the end of Jedi (if that's even possible, which I'm not sure it is since he wasn't 'prepared' to die) or some mention of Qui-Gon, and that 'Jedi Rocks' scene in Jedi removed. And of course some other CG improvements such as changing Jabba in ANH, etc.
     
  15. HendrixFan

    HendrixFan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2002
    The part about Yoda training ObiWan will be explained in Episode II, so it doesnt need to be addressed in the "Archival" DVDs.

    I dont think much with the story needs to be changed really, the PT seems to be doing a good job of staying within the tight boundaries that the OT left for it.

    I agree with some of the things already mentioned, but I would also add a little more "culture" to Mos Eisley, more aliens in the streets. I think also that the battle scenes in ANH, ESB and ROTJ should be beefed up in their scope. Nothing too drastic, just enough to make them look larger and more massive, so they dont pale in comparison to the larger battles in the PT.
     
  16. GORILLA

    GORILLA Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Reposted from a former thread:

    I hope they make an Interactive Ultimate Edition with both the classic and special editon trilogies on it. This way you can splice scenes from either movie and make your own version.
     
  17. that_guys_wise

    that_guys_wise Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Totally agree that any DVD release should contain the original versions and the SE/AE's, and with allowing people to splice their own versions.

    What I would like to see added/changed:

    ANH - keep SE changes, with exception of Greedo shooting first, but improve Jabba. Redo lightsaber effects. New special effects for the Falcon v TIE fighter battle following the escape from the Death Star. IMO this looks really dated now - the Falcon seems to be stationary for large parts of the battle. Depending on what happens in EP III, a scene with an old Bail Organa on Alderaan just before it is destroyed would be a nice touch.

    I'm not really in favour of the Anchorhead sequence being reinserted. From what I've read Lucas was pressured to shoot this scene because FOX wanted Luke to be introduced into the story earlier than he was, but Lucas felt the scene spoiled the flow of the movie, and I tend to agree. However, Bigg's death would have more impact if we know more about the relationship between him and Luke - perhaps parts of the Anchorhead scene could be inserted into the Mos Eisley sequence (although I don't know how this would work)?

    ESB - keep SE changes, with exception of Vader walking to his shuttle. Reinsert 'Bring my shuttle' line - it sounds much more menacing. The Emperor hologram HAS to be reshot with Iain McDiarmid as Palpatine.

    ROTJ - Put Han's 'trust me' line back in. It's much cooler than the SE replacement. Visit more planets in finale, but put the original Ewok song back in - it's so uplifting :D !

     
  18. stone_jedi

    stone_jedi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2001
    From what I've read Lucas was pressured to shoot this scene because FOX wanted Luke to be introduced into the story earlier than he was, but Lucas felt the scene spoiled the flow of the movie

    I have also heard that when he screened the movie for a producer or someone at Fox or something (not sure, could look it up if it's important) they saw that scene with Biggs and remarked "Oh, so it's like American Graffiti in space. I get it." Lucas immediately cut the scene because he didn't want SW to seem like a retread of his hit movie. :)

     
  19. weezer

    weezer Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 16, 2001
    You know what would be a cool addition.

    In the ANH novelization Ben says that thing about "a duck out of water" and Luke asked "whats a duck" if they could find a way to put that back in it would be a nice PT OT bridge.
     
  20. Force_Choke

    Force_Choke Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 21, 2002
    "In the ANH novelization Ben says that thing about "a duck out of water" and Luke asked "whats a duck" if they could find a way to put that back in it would be a nice PT OT bridge."

    hmmm, I'm sorry but how the hell does that help bridge the PT/OT gap?
     
  21. SLAVE2

    SLAVE2 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    Was this reported here yet?

    Star Wars Ultimate Edition - Fact or Fiction?
    Wed, Apr 17, 02 10:10:35 PM EDT

    Here are two reports you're gonna love. Hendrick reports:

    In May's edition of Maxim magazine there is an interview with George Lucas. Lucas is asked whether he intends to release the original trilogy with even more scenes than the special edition. It seems that Lucas wishes to deny this. He answers "If the films are ever released again - and I'm not sure they're going to be - it'll purely be to put them out there for a new audience."
    This comment seems to conflict with the interview done with Jimmy Smits that also appears in Maxim where Smits states that Lucas told him he was tinkering with the idea of placing him in a scene of ANH right before Alderaan is destroyed.

    Meanwhile, Erwin sends this:


    I think I've got some pretty cool news, I haven't read it anywhere anyway --
    A friend of mine send me this article from the newest "Score" which is a Dutch soundtrack magazine (see the attachment for the part I'm talking about), they have an interview with John Williams and he confirmed that he was asked by George Lucas to rescore parts of the first Star Wars movie, for the rest it's mainly about his past work, he also talks about AOTC, but nothing new I think, but I think the rescoring thing is new?? I'll try to translate (because it's in Dutch):

    "I am thrilled to have the chance to go back to something I composed in 1977 and be able to make the entire saga continuous theme-wise." John Williams tells us. "Notably abscent in the first movie is the Imperial March. Being able to insert that theme in the first movie will create a much stronger emotional flow throughout the Saga. After the release of Episode III George will enhance the original trilogy with additional scenes and special effects, adding my adjustments to the score this will seamlesly branch the entire Star Wars Saga into one massive romantic space opera. I think something of this magnitude has never been done before."


    Heres my favourite part

    "I am thrilled to have the chance to go back to something I composed in 1977 and be able to make the entire saga continuous theme-wise."

    So purist if John Williams likes the idea you should too :p
     
  22. UK Sullustian

    UK Sullustian Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1998

    My concern is that I know the ANH Score off by heart... imprinted on my mind as a child. Already the SE changes don't "sound" right to my conditioned ears!

    I hate to think what would happen if they rip out large chunks of the "Death Star" theme (or even the blockade runner attack at the start) to drop in The Imperial March...


    UKS
     
  23. MoldyBread

    MoldyBread Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2000
    I am the official advocate of re-dubbing Beru's voice in ANH with the voice of Beru in AOTC.
     
  24. Patrick Russell

    Patrick Russell Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 1998
    As long as Lucas has the sense to release the original edits of all three OT movies on DVD along with the "tinker as you go" versions, I'll be fine with it.

    Personally, I think it is possible to tinker with a finished work to the point where you ruin it. Certainly Lucas made some completely unnecessary changes when he did his SE versions (though some changes did work well) and I really can't see that his batting average is going to be any better if he goes back and adds more crap to what he's already done.

    I can see where he might want to drop a hint of the Imperial March in ANH, but IMHO it would have to be in a spot where there wasn't already music. John Williams wrote a great, great score for that film, and it would be criminal to obliterate parts of it just for the sake of adding familiar themes from the other films. (Isn't the duel between Ben and Vader sans music? Now, THAT I could see writing some new material for and working Vader's theme into that.)

    But at least let's be given the option of also owning the original cut of ANH and the rest of the OT films. I realize some people feel that the more bells and whistles a film has, the better it automatically is, but the original cut of Star Wars is in itself a piece of film history and should be preserved as such.
     
  25. JediRac

    JediRac Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2001

    Just to maintain continuity of the music, the apperance of Vader on the blockade runner in ANH would be a terrific spot to place a hint of the Imperial March. Then put it in again during his duel with Obi Wan.

    Other than that, I see no reason to change the rest of the score. It's fantastic and it already won an Oscar.
     
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