Saga The Official Star Wars Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Fat_Rancor_Keeper, Apr 17, 2010.

Moderators: Darth_Nub, Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn
  1. APOLLO608 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2010
    star 1
    I believe that no matter what happens I will end up buying the set. I'm just that way. I have a soft spot for Star Wars and DVDs/Blu-Ray. :p
  2. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    And no offense to you, but you are exactly the kind of person Lucas is marketing for.

    Uhm, one person's opinion describes the whole fan base? Reasoning like that shows how far the fan base has fallen...

    Well, since copies are stored in the Smithosonian, as well as privately copies, I guess you'll die in spite.

    Consider all the time and money Lucas spent on those changes, I think he'd be disappointed to hear that.

    Yeah, no one will ever complain about it again....






    .....until the next Blu Ray release...

    But I'll bet you admire him for it, right? :D


    Actually, Lucas is in a bit of a bind here. Considering the fact that LFL has said there were no errors on the DVDs, and that disagreements were due to "creative differences", it remains to be seen if they will have the nerve to "correct" that which apparently wasn't "broken" to begin with.
  3. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    zombie,

    Again, do you have to buy what they sell? The Lord of the Rings, on DVD, had three different releases, each one giving something new upon release, and yet no one calls it a rip off because they feel that they are getting quality material with each release. And yet, by your definition, it should be a rip off because they deliberately held back material for a future release. Guess what, they're doing it again for the HD box set (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ringsbdmp/index.html) They've been withholding material for nine years in the event of a mega box set on Blu Ray for those films. I considering the Prequel DVDs to be definitive. I consider the Original DVDs to be adequate, considering the timeline.

    As for the '04 box set (again), we knew about the color issues right before it was released. Yeah, most websites that reviewed DVDs let that slide until about a year later when everyone started to have second thoughts (complaining) about the set (similar to the Episode I DVD). During the press for that set, there were plenty of interviews that gave you a hint at the time table of how long it took them to prepare that set. From what I remember, it was about three months with the clean up. If that information gets out before the release, which it did, how could anyone NOT know that this was a rush job. Yeah, I see the issues. I wouldn't say it bothers me but it does have my attention and something that I can definitely use as a guide when these Blu Rays hit to see if Lucas went back and reworked it. It doesn't destroy my enjoyment.

    Look, yeah, Star Wars deserves better but that's relative to the actual viewer. Ken Burns' documentary was great. Of course it's Lucasfilm sanctioned. It's not going to tell all the ugly stories that you want to see that are described in your book. But, who really wants to hear all the bad stories about the production of that Trilogy (Kurtz is doing a real good job of that in interviews). It was very, very hard work for everyone. Decisions were made. Live with it. That documentary didn't cover all the wounds that went into making that trilogy but it did enough highlighting for me to get a picture of the trials and tribulations it took to make it. Why does the wound need to be peeled back further to appease the fans?

    I guess my problem comes from the sense of entitlement that the fanase feels they have over this product on home video.

  4. tuskinraiderfromhell Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2004
    star 2

    Well said Jumpman!!!!!=D==D==D=
  5. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, such a crime. Only Lucas knows what the fans need.....or want.

    In large part to many people's attitudes of "Decisions were made. Live with it." Lucas thought they could get away with it because it was "Star Wars", and because folks like you would denounce folks who complained. Turns out there were too many voices of discontent to keep the problem under the radar.

    It's the complainers that get things to change, but it's folks like you that LFL targets when they rerelease the films with problematic video and audio, or without new material, because they know you'll buy it regardless.

    In the past couple of years, many folks - not just SW fans - have gotten a lot savvier about video and audio due to the explosion of home theater. They want the best movie quality they can get, and considering THX's and Lucas' prior commitments to such quality, the DVDs have been decidedly lacking.....even surpassed by releases of arguably lesser films. That's embarassing. What's even more embarrasing are the folks who want to give those DVDs a pass because it's Star Wars, when it's the opposite that should be the case.
  6. APOLLO608 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2010
    star 1
    I should have added that they should be reasonably priced. Blu-Rays will have to be coming down in price eventually so I would pay a certain amount just to have these films in higher quality.

    I'm not a mindless buyer, but I do have a soft spot for high-def and Star Wars. It's quite impulsive on occasion.
  7. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    No, I certainly don't. So the options are: 1) You are left with Star Wars on VHS, which isn't a reasonable expectation, which means 2) You are left with a poor boxset, and 3) If you want the extras that should have been on it in the first place, and if you want the films fixed, you have to buy it twice. If you don't but it, you save your money but you are still getting ripped off because something that buy all rights they could have provided you in the first place was not provided.

    First, the Extended DVDs were not planned at the time the original DVD of Fellowship was made, and it takes over a year to create the extended version. Since you cannot wait a whole year for a release that is very anticipated, you therefore have to create something in the meanwhile. It's a bit annoying that they have so many releases, but each release was so packed to disk capacity, it's actually a bonus in some ways--you had a second disk of extras for each film in its original release, and then 2 more disks worth of extras for the extended release, and a 2-hour documentary on each film for the third "limited release" which had both cuts. Every one of these is above and beyond the 2004 Star Wars set, which basically had zero extra disks per film, had enormous technical problems in the feature itself and didn't contain the original versions. If Lucasfilm had done a release as good as any of the LOTR films I would be happy.

    Well, I'm sorry, that's not really an excuse. I didn't know--I don't always frequent AV forums to check to see if a product being sold is secretly defective, and neither do all the other millions that bought it. You trust that the product is working properly. My point is: it shouldn't be sold in the first place. That's terrible business practice. Why defend this?

    The cleanup took three months because that's how long it takes. This was in January of 2004, but the release had been in production for months before that. So, at the very least there was a whole year from inception to release, and probably there was more than that. Which is about what most special edition DVD have. Again, no excuse.

    It's not entitlement, it's simply fair level of service relative to the rest of the industry. If you sell me a car for $25,000, and it's top speed is 40 km/h and it has no radio, no cd player, no A/C and no seatbelts--you could say, well, it gets you from point A to B, you can use it to transport yourself, friends, and
  8. BaronLandoCalrissian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2006
    star 3
    You still haven't explained how it's entitlement to expect a basic industry standard from an item. It's just this endless dear diary of your own feelings about the movie, what does that have to do with anything?
  9. Nordom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2004
    star 4
    Slight correction here, Zombie. Both the regular 2 disc DVD and the 4 disc extended edition were announced at the same time. On the back of the regular 2 disc you could read about the EE DVD and they were released a few months apart. So here customers were told upfront that two version would be comming out and what would be included on each version.

    Regards
    Nordom


  10. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I also have a couple of versions on laserdisc. :D
  11. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    yeah, I have the laserdisc versions on DVD - they include sparse commentaries done way back in the day, including contributions by Ralph McQaurrie if memory serves me correct. some of these commentaries could definitely be incorporated into any blu-ray release too
  12. Fat_Rancor_Keeper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2010
    star 3
    Well I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting or demanding a better product. At the same time, I don't really see anything wrong if some fans just dig the movies with or without changes and simply don't notice or care about the problems and faults with the films.


    "Instead of being one of the companies that does quality releases, Lucasfilm is one of the company that does mediocre releases so they can rip off their fanbase. Sorry, that's not the nature of the home video business, that's just the nature of Lucasfilm's business. I know they are not the only ones who do this--it's just a shame they are in that company. And it's not something I'm going to pretend is "understandable"."


    The first thing that popped into my mind after reading this was the way GL released the Clone Wars cartoons. Basically he did the same thing that many other companies do and released the series in mini-volumes every few months before FINALLY releasing the full 1st season box set of the series. I'm sure they did well in $$profits$$ by going this sadly typical route. Was anyone forced to buy them individually? No. Did I buy the individual releases? Hell no, I held out for the box set which was well worth it.

    Again, as Zombie mentioned why must LFL follow the same bad business practices as others?

    Here's are some links to those volume releases on Amazon...they are filled with fans mostly complaining, some who were confused and assumed it was a full season and many who just vowed to wait so as not to be "ripped off". It's literally the the same frustrated complaints & pleas OVER & OVER. And fans WARNING other fans to NOT BUY the product.

    http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Galaxy-Divided-Season/dp/B001E533E0

    http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Clone-Commandos-Season/dp/B0026IBRRO/ref=pd_sim_d_1

    Does GL have anyone at all on his payroll to deal with customer relations? I've never seen a company that just brazenly sat back as a mountain of complaints piled up and continued to plug on with business as usual. They pretty much have an "Ignore it and it'll go away" attitude.


    Although initially I was excited I'm now fairly conflicted about the eventual Blu Ray release. I suppose it's reality settling in.
  13. Jumpman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    How is it a basic industry standard to feel entitled to have everything in a DVD package of a particular film? We can't even agree what should be included in this set. How would Lucasfilm know what to include and what not to?

    Yeah, Star Wars is a cinematic icon. But, I can't condemn the '04 release because of the nature of how it was done. You say Lucasfilm doesn't provide the industry standard when it comes to supplement materials/audio/video on home video. Do the Prequels not count? Yeah, I know you hate them zombie, but those three DVD sets are quality products, bar none. You can't pick and choose in this argument. The Clone Wars Season One Blu Ray is an excellent quality product.

    The Originals will get their due in this box set(supplement material wise)...but not in the way that most want and I just don't see the point of arguing that fact any longer. If Lucas relents and includes a pristine (fan approved)transfer of the theatrical cuts of the original films, I'll eat frakin' crow for a year on these messageboards.

    But, the theatrical cuts are available. The VHS tapes haven't vanished. The non-anamorphics are available. You shouldn't expect them to be in this box set, if they're readily available, based on Lucas' feelings towards them today.

  14. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Well, considering that the "industry standard" refers to the business, and the feeling on entitlement refers to the customer, your question is flawed.

    Really? So now I'm breaking a law by preferring the OT? When I buy The Matrix, am I financially/morally obligated to buy the sequels?

    Considering how much you've been arguing that one NEED NOT buy what they don't want, it would seem that you've been arguing that one SHOULD pick and choose - at least right up until the point where it no longer served your argument.

    I wish you would pick and choose one stance or the other. Or can't you?

    We'll see if you stick to that choice.

    Old technology on both counts, the latter of which occuring in a age when anamorphic is the "Industry Standard". Even Fatboy Slim - one of the greatest Lucas cheerleaders and haters of Lucas haters - couldn't understand that decision. But I guess LFL/THX should be proud of themselves for providing the OOT DVDs in what was a "industry standard".....seven years prior. Real bleeding-edge there. Thank God the Prequels (which apparently count) balance out THAT equation....


    ....not!
  15. Anakin_Skywalker20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2000
    star 5
    I've been trying to find the original versions of the OT on DVD but while I like the special editions there are changes I wish that weren't there especially in ROTJ. Like the Jedi rock scene in Jabba's palace. I miss Sly Snootles. In Empire though, they need to change the line that Luke says on Dagobah back to its original after he finds R2 all mucky and dirty.

    I do hope the PT gets a good tweaking especially AOTC cause it needs it so bad. lol.

    So maybe the blue-ray version of both trilogies will consist everything we've seen but haven't seen before.
  16. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Look for the Adywan version of ANH. Look at how he's fixing ESB (Hey, LFL.....pay attention. You might learn something before you start attacking the Bluray version.)

    This is what LFL apparently CAN'T do. For all of Lucas' talk of making the films as he originally intended, it would appear that some of his intentions were to make it look WORSE.....I guess at that time the technology to turn everything blue and red sabers pink didn't exist?

    ANH: Revisited

    ESb: Revisited

    [image=http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1791/newcomps.jpg]

    For all you guys talk of fans not being satisfied with anything, you apparently choose NOT to point that same microscope at Lucas. In a way, I'm kinda looking forward to seeing the new Blurays, because I can't WAIT to see what Lucas' "Definitive Version" of the OT is THIS time! [face_laugh]
  17. BaronLandoCalrissian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2006
    star 3
    Do the Prequels not count?

    Phantom Menace has a lousy transfer, but yes the other 2 look good and have a disc 2 of normal extras. Like almost every new studio release. So, for 2 out of 6 movies they managed to deliver a package on par with CRANK 2 and BRIDE WARS. Wow!
  18. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
  19. TOSCHESTATION Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    Stick to defending your arguments, Jumpman.
  20. Fat_Rancor_Keeper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2010
    star 3

    I think I speak for many SW fans when I say AdyWan's edits are basically the best thing to ever happen to SW. While many of us sit around and wait and hope for GL to fix things this guy is doing it....and doing a fantastic job.

    I can easily say I'm looking forward to EsB & eventually ROTJ and the PT Revisited much more than the entire upcoming BluRays because AdY has shown nothing but love and passion for his work. With ANHR alone he already has a better track record than LFL.

    Imagine someone actually taking the time to get Palpatine's hologram to actually look similar to his appearance one movie later in ROTJ. What a contrast to simply sitting down Ian McDiarmid in front of a blue screen while on a break from filming ROTS and then slapping it straight on DVD. Why bother tweaking his makeup to help him match a bit better considering it's supposed to be 20+ years later? Why bother with an ounce of post-production CG work....nah, they just throw it on there as is and assume fans will eat it up.

    It's little things like that which says a lot about the people who work at LFL....either they just don't give a crap about going that extra step to make a simple effect much better or they honestly did their best. In which case they should be replaced b/c their "best" is shoddy by most standards and just screams of "lets just get this job done & go have some lunch."

    Really - what happened to all those guys who were innovators and created new techniques (with a lot less money) just to pull together the first SW film in 1977?
  21. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    I don't really understand why some purists actually prefer adywan's edit. The battle of Yavin is so radically different from both the original and the special edition it really leaves me feeling cheated.
  22. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    How can someone feel "cheated" over a version they didn't buy? :confused:

    Actually, I've not seen these edits, and considering some of the changes that had been made, likely won't. That being said, the clean-up work on the screecaps looks AWESOME! That's why I brought those out as an example.

    But don't expect LFL/THX to take notice. Star Wars: Where "good enough" is....

  23. DuracellEnergizer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2009
    star 3

    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061029053614/uncyclopedia/images/2/24/Kaizer.png]

    Yippy, wippy, wippy.


    I wouldn't be surprised if those "extras" they speak of are nothing more than further alterations to the films themselves.

    Red saber-weilding General Grevious FTW! :rolleyes:
  24. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    There's much more: the duel has a completely out-of-place music cue from ROTS, the scene at Obi-Wan's hut is reverted to the scripted version (which was specifically changed in post, because Leia's plea seemed unimportant that way) just to fix a small continuity issue of 3PO moving when he's supposed to be "shut down", the Death Star is orbiting near a new planet, with a lot of Star Destroyers (so it seems rather small, compared to the planed),...

  25. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    As much as I admire adywan's work( and I do a lot), I think he went and changed too many things that didn't need to be changed(teh duel score, Yavin battle, etc) so it doesn't feel like the definitive cut to me.

    If he had taken the best picture quality and kept the subtle changes he made(eyeblinks on aliens, etc) it would've become the definitive set for me.

    But anyway...
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