Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Fat_Rancor_Keeper, Apr 17, 2010.
If I could branch back to Greedo shooting first and Bring my Shuttle I'd be a happy man.
And the DVD Jabba needs recolored or something.
They can make an Evolution of Jabba featurette, and we'll watch it.
Or they can change Jabba, and pretend the scene looked like that in 1977.
Funny I haven't even thought about them touching up Jabba, but who knows they might. At this point I'd say just cut the scene totally from AnH.
However, if they could make it work with a cool CG model that closely matches the puppet in ROTJ that would be a plus. Furthermore if they make some tweaks like maybe have a stand-in "Han" walk in front of Jabba or somehow remain away from him that could be cool. So long as Han doesn't friggin' step on Jabba's tail. In this day and age I'm sure someone at LFL could figure out a creative way to edit around that or rework things somehow.
Like I said - probably best to just cut it b/c even if all that stuff is tweaked (which we know is a pipe-dream) there's still the issue of the repetitive dialogue from the Greedo scene.
Agreed with Fat_Rancor_Keeper...
If only because Han would never be standing that close to Jabba's mouth, I don't think that scene can ever look right. Unless they just have Jabba as a hologram being projected by an R2 unit. (like that walking thing Sidious hologram thing in Phantom Menace)
Or they could just cut it back out since it's a redundant piece of crap. Let's face it, the only reason for adding it was to get a "new" scene with Han Solo (and I guess to show off 1997 CGI though in hindsight it's nothing to write home about).
Fans salivated over that stuff because it's the closest we'll ever get to new Star Wars footage with the characters people care about.
best thing would be to cut it. it tells us nothing we didn't already get from Greedo. If it was/ is to stay, which it will, the easiest and character driven beat to avoid the rubbish tail gag would be to start his move then cut away to Boba then cut away to Chewie staring the bounty Hunter down. Also, please lose that Godawful shot where Boba stops on his face out of shot and looks at the camera! We know who you are!!!
i quite like having the scene in the context of the whole saga. in terms of ANH its fairly redundant. but if im sitting down to watch the saga 1-6 or even 4-6, i think it helps ESB and ROTJ to see an example of the history they have.
Lucas wanted the scene back in the movie in the early 80s, once he decided to have Jabba in Return. So, having the scene restored was his main priority for the SE, because it helps to understand the whole Han-Jabba story. And I quite like the scene.
Not to mention shoehorning Boba Fett into ANH.
The one thing that always bothered me about this scene was that it ruined the very cool introduction to the Millenium Falcon. In the original version, we get introduced to the Falcon through Luke's eyes, "what a piece of junk" and that great wide shot of Falcon in the hangar. In the SE version the first shot of the Falcon is just as a backdrop to a redundant piece of exposition that has already been effectively conveyed in the Greedo scene.
The CGI in the 2004 DVD version beats the crap out of the 1997 SE version, but count me as a purist on this one.
You are right, but as originally scripted and shot, the scene was always meant to be there.
That's why screenwriters and directors have editors. What's on the page doesn't work when you actually film it and see it cut together. That's why he took out all the Anchorhead scenes as well--which are actually very good scenes, but don't work well in the context of the film.
Plus the Greedo dialogue was changed once the Jabba scene was gone, to incorporate the pertinent information Jabba gave. They should have at least changed it back, it's subtitled after all. But it really stops the flow of the film, and the first reveal of this amazing Millennium Falcon--complete with the music swell--punctuated with "what a piece of junk!" is to great to be ruined. I don't think that was a moment Lucas originally intended to be so funny, but after he cut the Jabba intro out and Williams gave it the musical touch and the way the editors played the cutting, it really became a clever moment.
Yes. And ANH is an incredibly well edited film. My biggest gripe with the prequels is that they don't have a competent enough editor. However, there are reasons for things being cut other than pacing or what does/doesn't work on screen. And the Anchorhead scenes were cut, from what I can gather, due to Lucas fearing his critics would say he was simply making "Amercian Graffiti in Space". Yet the Jabba scene was cut (again, to my knowledge) because, although he was played by an actor in stand-in, he was always meant to be played by some kind of animation - something non-human, prosthetic form. I accept I may be wrong on this reasoning (perhaps the script would prove me wrong or right) and it may just be a form of LFL propaganda.... but if its true, this was the only reason it was cut and therefore, its inclusion in the SE (when the technology was capable of inserting such a creature) was justified. regardless of that, when the cut was made, i doubt lucas was aware he'd make jabba a character, or han's story with him, an issue in any of the future films. that he did again made the inclusion (from a saga point of view) more justified.
And yes, it does undercut the original introduction to the scene.
So the prequels are on Spike right now in HD. It's my first time seeing ROTS in HD, the only sw film I've seen in HD on tv before is AOTC and that was many years ago. Closest I can do with until the blu-rays come out.
It is quite impressive seeing ROTS in HD though!
TPM and AOTC, perhaps, but what's your appraisal of ROTS? I thought that baby ran like a dream.
^^ I made a mock-up (for fun)
The way I see it to make the scene work they would have to do the following...
1 - Somehow get rid of the goofy tail bit with Han.
2 - Change the location of their meeting to preserve the original Falcon reveal and alter the scene accordingly since Jabba seemed to originally be hovering around the Falcon calling for Han.
3 - Modify the dialogue a bit to make it less repetitive.
4 - Give the 2004 Version of Jabba one last makeover to make it look more like the ROTJ version.
5 - Lose Boba Fett as it seems odd that he has nothing better to do than hang around with Jabba. Instead put in some familiar faces like Bib Fortuna or something. Also lose the Greedo lookalike floating around in the back too.
Again, since NONE of this will be done I'd say just cut the whole scene.
BTW, while working on this I REALLY noticed how different the CG model truly is from the puppet. The coloring, the texture, the body, the arms, the facial features...nothing really matches.
ROTS actually got pretty good for me at Order 66, but the Mustafar duel got pretty ridiculous when they were floating over the lava.
^^ Yeah, the Mustafar battle is a good example of "too much of a good thing". It was a great backdrop for a heated confrontation we'd been waiting YEARS to see onscreen. Don't get me wrong I liked it, but it dragged on and on and like you said - it was over the top with the video-game like jumping around on platforms above lava.
I wonder if Lucas realized that Christensen and Portman were going to drop the ball dramatically and felt he had to make up for it with frantic action.
I can't speak for Hayden b/c I haven't really seen him in anything else....but Natalie Portman I've seen in other flicks and she's a pretty solid actress.
Almost everyone was off in those movies which leads me to believe it was GL's fault. He was the director and he was the person behind the stiff lifeless dialogue. I'm sure even Deniro in his prime couldn't make a line about "sand getting everywhere" come off well.
According to zombie, (and I believe he is right) the actor playing Jabba was not a stand-in, and wasn't meant to be replaced by animation (read zombie's article about it). The script and the novel show that Jabba was supposed to be some kind of a grotesque human. Looking at the way the scene was shot, it is obvious that they just couldn't add any special effects in the 70s, and it's still difficult today. However, Lucas felt that "the casting was not strong enough", and wanted to cut the scene, while Marcia wanted to keep it.
I guess the reason I'm OK with the scene being back in the movie, is that I never felt anything special about the "reveal" of the Falcon. Perhaps is because I saw Empire and Return first, but it doesn't seem to be such a "piece of junk" to me.
Agreed on Natalie. As for Hayden, go watch My Life as a House. Great movie.
Hayden is great in Life As A House, as is Kevin Kline, even though I think it could have been a lot better. His best performance by a mile is in Shattered Glass. It's a really fine movie - should be seen. It's proof that, on his day, Hayden can play creepy and disturbed as good as anyone.