The Official Star Wars or Lord of the Rings Discussion

>>He kept Padme alive for the same reasons why he needed all of his friends on Geonossis alive. If he could turn her she would bring Naboo as an alley if the seperatist war.<<

Then why was Padme a target of assasination in the begining of the film?

>>As for Anakin with being one of the most powerful Jedi he "would prove to be a great alley". He toyed with them as an attempt to turn them. And put them in the ring as a final attempt and humilation to show his Seperatists that the jedi can be defeated.<<

He toyed with them in an attempt to turn them. To humiliate them? You know this how? A line of dialogue? A voiceover? Oh that's right, there was nothing. You are inferring everything.

The only seperatists there were the Geonossians. And Dooku was not expecting the rescue attempt. It caught him by surprise. So it was no trap.
The plan was for Palpatine to come in with the clones and save the day when the separatists attacked. That is why he requested the war powers. Otherwise, a whole section of the movie would have been a waste of time. Don't make up plot points for Lucas. That's his job.

In movies, if it wasn't shown, it didn't happen. And nothing that you have stated in defense to the Geonossis battle was shown.

 

Rogue, how can you say that Dooku and Sidious did not mean for war to start at the BOG? Dooku returns to Coruscant, informs his master of the good news. War has begun. Sidious is delighted that evrything is going according to plan. The BOG was a set up.

 

<<I'm suprised at you Darth_Sproket. Your assertion that going to Helm's Deep made no strategic sense is just grasping at straws. Shameful>>

Grasping at straws? I don't use straws...not since I was a kid

The HD battle made as much strategic sense as the Battle of the Alamo....very brave defense...no chance of victory.......except that in TTT you had the "calvary" save the day. The Alamo defenders had no such luck.

 

Interestingly, modern strategists have speculated that the Alamo defenders could have won if they'd pulled the ladders up, rather than pushing them over.

 

<<Interestingly, modern strategists have speculated that the Alamo defenders could have won if they'd pulled the ladders up, rather than pushing them over.>>

I don't believe in revisionist history....the defenders at the Alamo had no real chance to survive.....too heavily out-numbered...they would have run out of ammo.....it was just a matter of time.

 

It's just a theory; it certainly would have bought them time, at least.

But hey, we're off topic.

 

Actually, it was pretty much stated in the movie that HD was a strategic mistake. Gandalf pleaded with Theoden to meet the enemy head on, but he didn't listen. Then Aragorn tried to get him to summon the Riders of Rohan, and he didn't listen to him either. Gandalf totally bailed them out, otherwise they would have been massacred. Theoden was completely inept in the movie. Had he been an officer in the Empire, Vader would have killed him in a second.

One thing this whole SW/LOTR mess has done to me is kill my ability to enjoy LOTR. I picked up my 25 year old paperback of ROTK last night, intending to re-read it, and I couldn't even stand to look at it.

 

I thought some of you might appreciate this latest juicy nugget of inside information regarding ROTK, courtesy of Dark Horizons:

LOTR: The Return of the King: 'Starjay' has an update on the third film, its reshoots and some FX difficulties: "ROTK is suppose to run in the 3.5-4 hour range, P.J. can use as much time as he needs to finish the story. Most of the actors will be returning to New Zealand for reshoots before the ROTK release. There were two other film crews that were filming other than P.J. and Barry Osbourne/Fran Walsh and P.J. was allegedly very disappointed with the direction and the acting. All of these scenes will be reshot, and the director has a lot of work to do before the release. I was told that the battle scenes for ROTK would be much more difficult this time, as opposed to Helm's Deep. HD was easy due to the darkness and the rain, it hides a lot of sins. The Battle of Pelannor Fields and the stand at the Black Gate won't be in the dark although it's not completely daylight either".

Interesting bit of info on the running time, but it looks like the FX people have got their work cut out.

 

I'm glad they aren't holding back for the sake of time instead of film quality.

 

Theoden did 'NOT' make a mistake as going to Helms Deep was the logical thing to do under the circumstances. Gandalf wanted him to ride out to meet Saruman because Saruman was attacking in small raiding parties at that point. NOONE knew that Saruman had an army of 10,000 or the pods of gunpowder. Until Eomer turned up at the end, there were about 50 riders i.e. those involved in the Warg battle. What the hell would they have done had they charged Saruman on the open plain? If Saruman only had a smaller force and no gunpowder, the siege at Helms Deep would have been far more prolonged.

 

He still listened to no one's advice and was completely hard-headed. I've always found him inept. The only reason they weren't massacred was because of Gandalf and the Riders. They pulled off that scene beautifully, I might add.

 

As far as going to Helm's Deep was concerned, it was the best move Theoden had; you don't play offense when you're outnumbered 33 to 1. Admittedly, he would have been better off had he sent for help, but his pride got in the way of that, and I think that makes him a more human character; real people have flaws.

 

IMO the only mistake he made was not sending for help, eitherwise what he did was smart. Helms deep is much more than a simple defence. It has been an undefeatable landmark that the people see as unstopable. The key to that battle was spirit, these are children and old men acting like there is no hope will make things much worse. Also there's one way in or out, except for that back way through the caves which IMO he should have had the women and children by. So there is no way for back attacks and it's easier for archers to shoot in one direction rather than being overwhelmed, more overwhelmed. Plus if you think about it, it was either that or staying at the village.

 

Well...not everybody can be Yoda when it comes to military command, I guess.

 

Ah, yes, who can forget Yoda's brilliant tactic of "marching forward and shooting stuff"?

 

I always knew Yoda was once a Red Coat General.

 

Check out the OT for the Clone/Storm Troopers incredible effictiveness without Jedi command.

 

Can't beat General Vader.