Lit The Official StarWars.com Blog Thread - That's right, I went there

Hmmm....fair enough.

There goes that Elderath fanfic I was planning on writing....

Pretty much - or at least I get the impression that by that point he was all about the Dark Side theocracy and cared little for the Republic's trappings of power, and may have been actually interested in demolishing them to build a new society from the ground up.

 

Well, we know Cosinga had at least one affair. Maybe the Imperial family was composed of a bunch of bastard half-siblings and half-nieces/nephews who could command some wealth and influence but who could never legitimately succeed to the throne, and as such Palpatine didn't give a crap about them. This also explains how the decidedly not-that-old Palpatine could have a grand-niece plausibly described as being "remote".

 

Dark Empire was set before the Thrawn trilogy when first written, so Coruscant was unsuccessfully being liberated by the Rebels for the first time when it was written .

Not sure if that makes more sense.

 

Sounds like North Korea. Just look at what Kim Jong-un just pulled. Or Josef Stalin with the 1930s purges.

 

He was planning Operation Shadow Hand when Endor occured, after all...

 

Just finally got a chance to read this -- OUTSTANDING!!! If the EU as we know it is soon to meet its demise, then what an end it will be! Going out in a blaze of blog glory, covering all ends of the EU spectrum. An epic Farewell Tour.

While Cronal remains one of my favorite EU characters, I'm glad he's been retconned out of the Dark Empire plot. His loyalties were always superficial, and not only did Palpatine know this, but I'm sure Cronal knew Palpatine knew. I could never understand why he'd be one of the few called back to help Palpatine return to power. Leave that to the true loyal servants who genuinely loved the Empire.

On an unrelated note, this article makes me wonder if Mon Mothma ever had various disguises of her own... how much did she truly revel in these so-called "spy games"?

 

Double-post: I just found the Imperial Warlord part -- didn't even know this was up.Curse you, final exam week!

So a case is being made for Devian, eh? Very well. I don't much like how such a seemingly prominent Warlord was shoehorned in at such a late date, but this article mollifies it somewhat. Did we know the part about Zsinj's mother before? I certainly don't recall that. That's awesome -- think of the sort of novel that would make. Zsinj & Mum fighting epic battles together in TCW, only to have him ordered to take her down years later because she wouldn't give up her power and title like a proper Imperial gal. Even if that weren't Zsinj, it would still make for a great story.

And Ardus Kaine... seems like a complex fellow. I suppose we can all relate to his predicament. He's not a crazed power-monger. Just a guy who honestly doesn't know what's the right course of action to take, while the universe is pulling him in multiple directions.

 

I just checked out their article Galaxy Building, from Alderaan to Utapau. I noticed that they mention Dac in the article as it mentioned in that old 1982 Bantha Tracks newsletter. Is Dac considered G-canon?

Also- they forgot to mention Sullust, which is name dropped in ROTJ.

--Adm. Nick

 

It was mentioned in ANH, in a cut-scene, according to Mark Hamill, they did indeed miss it.

 

Well, I can understand that being missed, as it was cut. However, Sullust is named in ROTJ, so either way it should be in the article. I am still interested to know if Dac is G-canon or not. Ultimately, I can't imagine it being name dropped in the Bantha Tracks newsletter unless it was part of George's notes.

EDIT:



--Adm. Nick

 

It is unwise to upset a Mon Cal. They tend to hold grudges and not rest until their enemies are defeated.

--Adm. Nick

 

Answer: Mon Cals & Wookiees are allies in the Rebellion, so the only limbs being torn are Imperial.

--Adm. Nick

 

Yeah, I think this newsletter info came from him and was related to the production, even if in bg notes. We know Lucas has done this before, when they explained some of the TCW episodes being based on SW story ideas he had since the 70s and early 80s.

 

Forget that, let's see an Ackbar vs. Palpatine match. Though I'd wager the outcome would be quite to your liking.

 

That's because Palpatine is the best at everything. I bet he could even do more crunches than Chewbacca. Abs like a Star Destroyer's hull, that's our Emperor.

 

I also think Dac was used in one of the original ROTJ Topps cards. Or some kind of other promotional card, maybe.

 

I think Nick's on the verge of having a total breakdown. His beloved Dac, only a fan-made conception?

 

LOL, quite the opposite. I am trying to figure out if the world I thought was of the EU is actually G-canon. Either way I am fine, but Ackbar being a chess master from a water world works fine for me!

--Adm. Nick

 

For anyone interested, here is the explanation of the Pestage/clone issue that I gave on Facebook:

"this is a long one to clarify a fairly simple point.

I actually tried to somewhat circumvent the issue of Pestage's clone. As you guys may be aware, that character's existence was a retcon I came up with way back in my first Star Wars project, "The Emperor's Pawns," to explain the discrepancy between Pestage being killed in the X-Wing comics yet still being alive 5+ years later according to the Dark Empire Sourcebook. That source is actually where I explicitly stated that the “Pestage” that is killed by Krennel in the comics is the clone: “When Pestage left to immerse himself in his dark side experiments, he entrusted his clone to maintain order. When the rapidly gestated clone went mad, Sarcev abandoned the Pestage clone to the Imperial Ruling Council and Isard.” For the record, before I began writing officially for Star Wars, Mike Stackpole once told me that he preferred that the Dark Empire version of Pestage be the one that was a clone—at the time that didn’t make much sense to me, though.

In any case, Dan later split the difference by casually muddying the waters in Pestage’s biography in the New Essential Guide to Characters. So what you see here in "Imperial Warlords" just continues along the lines of that theme—though this time, IMO, with a different motive. Since 2001 and 2002, when “The Emperor’s Pawns” and the New EG to Characters came out, plenty has changed. Back then, my position as a “canonista” wasn’t cemented, and Dan was doing me a big favor just by simply acknowledging my work in a little rpg magazine in any capacity.

So, basically, if you want a definitive answer to the question of which Pestage was the one that was killed by Krennel, that was answered unequivocally over a decade ago in “The Emperor’s Pawns.” Indeed, that’s where the notion of a clone Pestage originated, and all Dan did in the New EG to Characters was reference my creation obliquely. That said, in the years since we wrote those works, Mike Stackpole created Ysanne Isard’s crazy clone in X-Wing: Isard’s Revenge, which basically mimicked the premise and fate of my Pestage clone. In light of that is why I felt echoing the ambiguity of the New EG to Characters in "Imperial Warlords" was a valid approach, because now it personally seems like it may be a better twist to consider that it’s the *original* Pestage that unexpectedly ends up going “mad” and betraying Palpatine—and thus gets killed by Krennel, as Stackpole originally wanted—and that it’s ironically the clone that remains loyal to the reborn Emperor. Twenty years out from Heir to the Empire, this whole “clone madness” angle is dangerously clichéd, after all.

I should mention that the reason Stackpole thought it best that the Dark Empire Sourcebook Pestage be the clone rather than the X-Wing comics version is because he didn't even *know* about the existence of the DESB version when he plotted out Pestage's fall. That seemed to me then--as a young canonista, if you will--a totally understandable but egregious oversight. Now I'm ultimately undecided on how it should play out, as I like the pregnant possibility of choosing either. I think that's something best left to the moment of creation and how it best would work to highest dramatic and/or natural [effect] in a narrative context."

That's actually what I vaguely had in mind when I wrote the retcon for "The Emperor's Pawns." More specifically, though, my thinking is that the answer would really have to coincide with the point in time when it would make the most sense for Pestage to have tracked down Jeng Droga to unglue the Emperor's essence from him.

A man could get used to torture like this.

Well, you can tell her I said, "Nothing happens by accident" ... which sounds a lot like a friggin' absolute, if you ask me.

That's something I'm glad survived into this final version. The one who didn't survive, though, was Malcor Brashin who we originally had as the third Imperial officer named in the intro as having obtained the Warlord of the Empire title. But because Zsinj was established as earning that appellation last year in the Essential Guide to Warfare, poor Brashin got dropped. There just wasn't enough room in the introduction to name more than three examples in good taste.

Memory serves, indeed. Darksaber throws that out there casually as an example of the absurd titles the Deep Core warlords took on. But Dan and I both have an affection for that novel, so it was nice to invert the perception of that title from something silly to what's arguably the only fitting title for He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (i.e. the secretly resurrected Emperor).

The Raptors were supposed to be fanatically loyal to Zsinj, according to Cracken's Threat Dossier. It didn't make sense that they would simply disappear.

I'd hoped the caption made it fairly clear that it was the Star Destroyer immediately beside it.

Admittedly, though, we probably should've cut the bull**** and just said, "HEY! Wookieepedia! Just so there's no confusion what-SO-ever, when we say "beside" we mean, like, *RIGHT* mother****ing BESIDE. Knowhatimean?"

Ah, see, now that gets me right here <3, Paxis. Because that's exactly as Zsinj would've wanted it.

Many thanks, good sir.

You're up on your generalities, my Imperial title aficionado, but behind on your particulars. Zsinj has been an official holder of the Warlord of the Empire title since the EG to Warfare.

With that established, it became important to incorporate that logically and satisfactorily into his life's narrative. Given the emphasis he put on being an Imperial warlord at the end of his life in conjunction with the manner of his death, the correlation between his earning the ceremonial title and his perpetration of matricide might at least be called thematically reasonable (though we prefer quietly dramatically awesome).

If LFL decides that's the way to go with the Empire in the future, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But for now, I don't see a significant reason to contradict a fairly forceful perspective in established continuity, from writers as diverse as Kevin J. Anderson to Michael Stackpole to Karen Traviss.

Again, with greater detail, here are my thoughts from a similar discussion on FB:

"[Regarding Maarisa Zsinj and the Imperial boys' club,] the examples of counter-arguments aren't significant, they are exceptions, and exceptions are perfectly accounted for in the context of the established "sexist Empire" perspective. From Daala to NhM, this characteristic is insisted upon with significant and repeated force. Look at the Imperial cadets in Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison, published last year and a story that takes place mere "months" after Revenge of the Sith. Try to find a single female among them. Whether this makes the Empire seem caricatured is a matter of taste, I believe.

I'm sympathetic to these concerns gentlemen, but I still don't think the depiction of the Empire in the Non-huMan tradition is unrealistic. It's precisely because it *isn't* historically unrealistic that makes it so terrifying. Narcissism, self-interested rationalization, tribalism, groupthink, denial, institutional prejudice and circular logic generally are all common and documented psychological and historical traits and can be especially true in a military environment where a very high value is placed on mental uniformity. When you combine this with the fact that the Empire stands, among other things, as a Star Wars analog for the Third Reich, I don't think it's unrealistic in the least and represents a stark warning not to forget the extremes to which these common cognitive phenomena can lead sentient peoples if they go unchecked."

Woah, easy man! I literally AM myopic, and will not stand for the disparagement of my people!

Ah, I'm kriffing with you, GAJ.

This actually is a good point. It's a hiccup, and the description of Baron there (let's call it an emphasis) was primarily to bolster the credibility of the lesser-known title Tan. In any case, the solution is straightforward enough: simply see the adjective "starfighter" as not determinately exclusive but descriptively inclusive. "Baron" is all the things it is including, loosely considered, a starfighter denomination.

It's only absurd if anyone but the Emperor uses it.

What Hav said.

We're very familiar with the stories, apocryphal or not, of dying soldiers on the battlefield crying for their mothers with their final breaths. Zsinj's absurdist personality (per Aaron Allston) and relationship with his mother just added an element of contemplative depth or layer of private confession.

Things can change over time, of course, but the bit about Sartinaynian being founded by anti-alien humans is something that was already suggested, possibly from the Essential Atlas or EG to Warfare, but I don't remember specifically. (I know, I know.... Clearly, I'm getting too old for this sort of thing.)

I believe that is Brian Rood's art for the Hasbro packaging of a Dark Empire set.

Thanks a whole bunch, brother.

 

I always thought that while the anti-alien attitudes of the Empire may have kind of been made up by authors after seeing no aliens in the Empire in the movies, but that could be just based on the real-world fact that it was tough to use anything more then humans in the original trilogy. But then again, when Return of the Jedi came around, lots of aliens showed up in the Rebel ranks, but none on the Imperial side, so that suggests Lucas & company did that on purpose.

That just covers the alien stuff, though. The Empire could have had many human women added if the filmmakers wanted to. Leia seemed to be the only female Rebel in ANH (as far as I recall) , but both Empire and Jedi included a lot. And again, none on the side of the Empire. Also, while none of the OT movies have a very diverse cast, we so a number of none-white actors on the Rebels side, but none in the Empire. Now in that case, it may not be them suggesting the Empire only likes white people, but I'd say that was done on purpose, too, just to give the feel of a very elitist Empire.

Huh, I didn't expect that turn into a legal argument, but now that is has: This, ladies and gentleman, is a large amount of evidence suggesting the Empire is intended to be a racist, bigoted organization. I rest my case.