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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Official StarWars.com Blog Thread - That's right, I went there

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Plaristes

    Plaristes Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2007
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
  3. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2001
    Hola, mis amigos!

    Thank you, Ms. Coffee! I agree, it sucks that we don't know who these authors are, especially with the more substantial contributions I covered in part 2. (And thanks for the push, Plaristes.) While the Sonko stuff is terrific, as well as the translation nuances of the Ewoks novelization, I really felt the unexpected bombshell was the revelation about what the heck an android actually *is* and the totally serendipitous continuity related to "sidereal beings." (That was really my guilty pleasure. :D)

    No prob, JTS! Do you, or did you, reside in Spain (or some other Spanish-speaking country)?

    Yeah, I quite liked that too. Almost a fourth of that Rebels adaptation is entirely new material by Mike Kogge (who also wrote the awesome Despotica). A great read.
     
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  4. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    To some extent, the point is moot now (though I'll point out we haven't exactly seen a surfeit of female Imperials in the Rebels series ... we'll have to see how The Force Awakens plays its cards). I do appreciate your analogy. If I've understood it, however, I think it's flawed for being superficial or literalist. Because, as always, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and it's just as easy to argue -- albeit uncomfortably for those of us that like our space fantasy escapist (myself included) -- that pre-existing attitudes of sexism in the GFFA are so fundamental as to provide a ready foundation for exploitation by the Empire. Indeed, that's what I think the existence of Imperial sexism proves, inductively speaking. This is how it is in the real world, and there's nothing to suggest that that isn't how it is in the GFFA, except a denial of the prevalence of sexism IRL or that we would prefer not to be that way as fans. So the novelty is in the Empire's *emphasis*, the bold and naked *outing* of this pre-existent attitude, but that's a difference of degree ... not kind. And it's also uncomfortably bothersome to me to throw Daala under the bus and just chalk up her perceptions of Imperial sexism as nothing more than crazy talk, since that skirts too close to the prevalent real-life phenomenon of women's encounters with sexism being ignored, marginalized and disbelieved.

    We might feel inclined to ask: well then, if GFFA attitudes about gender reflect IRL attitudes about gender, then why don't GFFA attitudes about race reflect IRL attitudes about race? And the answer is that they do. It's just that races are represented by alien species. And the playfully obfuscated racism in the EU is often brutal if fans have been paying attention. And I think that's a very good thing. The only difference is that (a handful of multi-sex species notwithstanding) females still make up an avoidable constant in the galactic population across species, and there's no similar convenient storytelling substitution as alien races so that we can dissimulate the discussion of sexism. So it's actually remarkably easy to imagine the nudge-nudge, wink-wink, high-five conspiracy between males *of and across different species* still going on behind closed doors ... just like it does IRL.

    I can agree with this in principle, as it's a general reflection of what real life might be reasonably thought to be like. But, as always, every generalization tends to also have exceptions. And categories and definitions that might be said to be non-monolithic in general can still be monolithic in particulars.

    I really do like the work you've put into this idea, GAJ. I'm even willing to accept a version of it. But like the British aristocracy you mentioned, I find it equally natural to assume that the Core World aristocracy would have misogynistic tendencies as well, just not on steroids like the New Order element.

    To a great extent, this is obscenely academic ... particularly with the introduction of the notion of Legends. For the practical purpose of storytelling in traditional Star Wars continuity, my take is that the Empire is sexist whenever a writer needs it to be, and that's a good thing if a writer wants to use his or her work to discuss feminist social issues. If the Imperials were the heroes of Star Wars, I would find that objectionable, but because they're clearly the villains, I have hardly any problem with it. If a storyteller wants to go full deconstructionist and reverse that scheme, I say they're welcome to try, but it would take a good deal of quasi-theology-style niggling that is frequently antithetical to storytelling. I won't outright deny it could be done. We've seen lighter versions of it in Rusel DeMaria, Timothy Zahn and Karen Traviss.

    We're getting there, my friend. At the very least, rest assured that I wouldn't invoke the sexism clause in my Star Wars writing without a good storytelling purpose. That's what I think I did in the case of Zsinj and his mama.

    Your post was a very eloquent summary, Mia. Thanks.

    That would be the Justice Action Network, Darth_Garak, and I've made a recurring effort to work them into my projects.

    I know, dude.
     
  5. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Yep. Lived in Spain for almost my whole life. I moved to the USA last year.
     
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  6. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Re: Sideral

    You are completely right about it being way more common in Spanish. For a long time "espacio sideral" seemed to be the most common translation of "deep space", so it was a word that was everywhere. I suspect that changed when DS9 was translated as "Espacio Profundo 9", for I haven't found that expression in a long time except in tongue in cheek contexts.
     
  7. Praenomen Cognomen

    Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 24, 2013
    Mr. Peña just said very eloquently the things I've been trying to enunciate on those topics for a long time (I was admittedly probably hampered by my proclivity for wild analogies and tendency to take lines of reasoning to their farthest theoretical conclusions to prove them wrong)...

    I feel less considerably less shut down (and maybe a little vindicated) knowing that my thinking was pretty much in line with several of the writers'. [face_relieved]:p
     
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  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
  9. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 21, 2002
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Does this count as canon? If so -- I knew Voren couldn't keep himself out of canon at all. Why, it'll turn out that the whole Legends thing was an Alliance propaganda effort that Voren dreamed up.

    ATTN: jSarek

    ATTN: Havac
     
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  11. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Well, there's no Legends disclaimer, like in Abel's recent articles or Jason's cut material from EGtW, so I'd say all signs point towards "yes".
     
  12. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 12, 2010
    I believe they are canon - Wookieepedia has been treating them as such, and the blog posts have been very selective regarding the info used. Like the Jedi Council one mentioning Yaddle's age and having trained Oppo Rancisis, but simply noting she was no longer on the Council by EPII without any details regarding her fate.
     
  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    bwahahaha YES

    Now I can blame everything on Voren again.
     
  14. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 12, 2010
    Ooh, Wedge is established to be Corellian! Nice. Was wondering how long that would take to reenter canon.

    EDIT: And Keyan Farlander was the Y-Wing pilot who survived the battle.
     
  15. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    I wouldn't bet too heavily on this being a formal recanonization at the hands of a Belgian fanclub president: the author seems to have done a lot of similar articles, all angled as a quick rundown on various subjects according to old Expanded Universe material. There's even one on the impact of West End Games.
     
  16. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I don't know if there's any such thing as a formal recanonization though -- a thing is mentioned or it isn't.

    And if we're operating under the assumption that TOS is just allowing folks to publish blogs with SW information that is completely and absolutely unreliable, then their editorial control and the role of the Story Group is even more dismal than we'd imagined.

    I mean what's the point of informative casual articles like this if it's not supposed to count as canon? It's not presented as "here's all this stuff, according to the old EU" it's just 'here's all this stuff."

    edit: And I mean, I'm over the "X is canon" stuff anyway -- I got Ars Dangor, so I'm happy even if it turns out that Voren's not a thing. But I'd be really bothered if it turns out they're releasing a bunch of fake information about the Star Wars universe that isn't vetted and doesn't count. At least not without a Legends label.

    That's why I'm leaning (or hoping) towards it counting as canon, because it would be a really lousy thing for them to do if it weren't. Bad enough for us, but imagine how confused the casuals are. Or moderate casuals, who care enough to want to know what counts.
     
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  17. The_Forgotten_Jedi

    The_Forgotten_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 12, 2010
    Yeah, but starting around the Twi'lek one, his articles appear to be primarily focused on reintroducing Legends material (mostly names and some minor background info) into canon: look at http://www.starwars.com/news/tusken-raiders-meet-tatooines-menacing-desert-dwellers]the[/url] one on Tusken Raiders. A whole bunch of names and terms for Tuskens and Tusken culture that appeared in the films but were named in books or supplementary material, and near the end there is a specific section about Legends, making it quite clear that everything before that is canon.
     
  18. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 12, 2009
    And everything in this article is nothing but canon characters and places. Seeing the word "Massassi Temple" again was nice. Also "Base One" seems to be a new term for the main temple.
     
  19. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    You know, looking at the roster of Yavin personal, it stands out to me that the rebels seem older than the imperials on average. Usually, rebellions in fiction are all about idealistic kids going up against the adults in power, but the rebels are full of experienced veterans.

    Which makes sense when I remember they were trying to restore a past government while the empire was full of kids raised on imperial propaganda and wanting to make a new order.

    Or maybe the empire's stricter policy of shaving just makes them look younger.
     
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  20. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 12, 2009
    Read through the other articles and he does make the distinction of what is canon and what is Legends material. None so for this article, so I guess the Story Group ok'd it. Even ok'd the use of "Massassi" for the temple name, though in the new canon that could mean anything.
     
  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    It was in Star Wars in 100 Scenes.
     
  22. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Plus the name "Massassi Temple" precedes KJA's Sithification of the Yavin structures.
     
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  23. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

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    Mar 30, 2004
    Wasn't it even in the novelization?
     
  24. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Nope, although "Massassi Outpost" is in the screenplay.
    "Base One" is in the Empire comics.
     
  25. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    I noticed it is still using the mistake for Hol Okand, showing him in an X-wing when he is supposed to be a Y-wing pilot.

    Decipher made a bad mistake with that one and it hasn't been corrected.