Lit The Official StarWars.com Blog Thread - That's right, I went there

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CooperTFN, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Yeah, there's the Lucas stuff with Mortis and then there's the EU's later use of them for the explanation for anything and everything that's unexplained. Why is Owen Lars no longer Kenobi's brother? The Celestials did it!

    Awesome.Things like this make me shake my head at those trendy scholars who say that the Roman Empire never fell and that there was no such thing as the Dark Ages, just a "change." Psh.
  2. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

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    Jun 12, 2009
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    you-keep-using-that-word.jpg

    anchorite [ˈæŋkəˌraɪt]
    n
    (Historical Terms) a person who lives in seclusion, esp a religious recluse; hermit
    [from Medieval Latin anchorīta, from Late Latin anachōrēta, from Greek anakhōrētēs, from anakhōrein to retire, withdraw, from khōra a space]


    Since this was the word used in a story Lucas supervised directly, I assume the implication wasn't that they retired to religiously study themselves as if they were literally Force Gods from the get-go, for how could they have retired from a status if they were incorporeal to begin with...
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Sep 27, 2013
  3. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    The implication I got from "The Vanished" is that the doctor is ascribing a lot of different ancient phenomena under the blanket term "Celestials." For instance, the tentacle art is clearly a reference to Abeloth, whom didn't build Centerpoint -- Killiks evidently did at the behest of the Ones. But even that is as reliable as the Killiks. That's the conclusion that the Jedi came to. But they also came to the conclusion that Anakin didn't balance the Force.
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  4. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    We don’t need implications for their retreat. The Father flat out tells Anakin he and his children retreated from the galaxy so as to avoid destroying it with their powers, implying they were quite literally Force gods long before they ever graced Mortis.
  5. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    DigitalMessiah: Ah, so you're saying it's *just* in-universe speculation, as opposed to confirmation by indisputable OOU sources. Yeah, that I'm ok with -- it's the SW equivalent of the "I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens" gif.

    As for Mortis and Force gods... I'd have been much happier if they weren't literal Force gods, but rather than Mortis was a vision that Anakin had and the Ones were just convenient mental metaphors/personifications that the Force chose to show him to make it understandable. But that ship has sailed... :p
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Sep 27, 2013
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  6. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    Ironically, for as much flak as Filoni gets around here, that is the interpretation he espouses.
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Well, I have a much better view of Filoni after the TCW continuity panel from C6 where he explained all the efforts he actually went through to preserve and respect continuity with the Mandos, Nightsisters, etc. So I'm no Filoni-basher, actually :p

    (though the finale of the last season almost made me change my mind on that score)
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  8. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

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    The problem is, the episodes never provide an origin story for the three, so Denning's retcon is as good as any.
  9. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    He also gave me Darth Sidious kicking ass in "The Lawless." For that, Filoni is absolved of all sins.
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  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
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    I'm a bit extreme but the only thing that could make me happy about Mortis and "Force gods" would be their non-existence.

    But Filoni's interpretation beats the idea of Anakin and Co. literally visiting the place.
  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    @GrandAdmiralJello
    Well, that is the whole vibe that the discussion is giving off, isn't it? :cool:

    And even in Apocalypse, the Jedi conclude based on Killik testimony and art that the Ones were the ones whom empowered the Killiks to construct Centerpoint to entrap Abeloth, and consequently since they died that the Jedi would need to step up and deal with Abeloth themselves. But they also concluded that Anakin didn't restore balance to the Force because he didn't stay at Mortis, which we know isn't the case. There's the discussion of Abeloth arising more than once -- it's possible that the Killiks are confusing different defeats of Abeloth, perhaps with the Ones defeating her one time in the same way by which Luke and Krayt do, and perhaps with the Rakata or Gree or some unknown species constructing Centerpoint Station to entrap her in the Maw.

    The idea that the Ones constructed Centerpoint Station with Killik laborers is somewhat incongruous with their depiction in the TV show, and the Killiks distinguish between the Ones and the Celestials, so I don't believe it's a stretch that there's some confusion on their part, as there tends to be, plus the Jedi are furthermore distorting it with their interpretation. In fact, I believe the implication in Dark Nest was that the Killiks may not have even constructed Centerpoint Station at all, but had a Joiner whom did.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 27, 2013
  12. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

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    You quasi-endorsed Filoni. Publicly.

    I'm telling everyone.

    Ever.
  13. purplerain Force Ghost

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    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    If Denning could, he would have Luke-faced Vader leave the cave. Still, I love this idea I read somewhere about a rivalry between the technology-based Celestials and The Force-based Whills.
  14. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

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    Jason just replied on the blog's comment section:

    September 27, 2013 at 5:41 pm
    Hi folks.
    Yes, Leland Chee reviewed this for canon/continuity, and is reviewing future installments as well.
    Of course, keep in mind that these are in-universe theories advanced by characters with imperfect knowledge.
    Thanks for reading!
  15. Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost

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    May 15, 2006
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    Wait, wait... this isn't just a presentation of cut content? It's actually bringing the cut content into canon? Dude, that's... just awesome.
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  16. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

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    Author's Cut = Director's Cut. :cool:
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  17. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

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    While I can see why this was cut from the intro, I believe it did a better job of getting the gravity of the Celestial mystery across than the final version did. The weight of the Celestial enigma as described here cannot be duplicated in encyclopedic format. The significance of the whole galactic bubble anomaly and similarly unexplained phenomena becomes somewhat muted when they're kept within the confines of apathetic, factual text.

    Of course, that's not to promote an argument that all of Warfare should have been done in scripted play format. Although that would be a sight to see....
  18. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    [face_laugh]

    I personally have to agree with Motti here. Out of universe, I find the Celestials to be a tad over used.

    In universe, this guy kind of reminds me of History Channel's "Aliens" guy.

    Plus, even if he had better evidence than authorial meta-knowledge behind him, this sounds more like something that would that be presented at an archology conference rather than to several highly ranked military leaders. I mean, even with his end warning that the Celestials may exist and be hostile, what can they do - they would be helpless against a foe that outmatched that badly, and no preparation could change that.


    .....Ok, again, I come as more negative than I feel. Very enjoyable read!
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  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
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    [IMG]
    Celestials

    Edit: I also don't think his meta-knowledge is any deeper than what we as fans already know -- in fact, we know more. He thinks Abeloth is a Celestial.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 27, 2013
  20. purplerain Force Ghost

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    Sep 14, 2013
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    This all reminds me of when @Sable_Hart said that The Force is overpowered.

    @DigitalMessiah, Abeloth is a Celestial in a way.
    Last edited by purplerain, Sep 27, 2013
  21. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    We don't know what Abeloth is; she isn't the same thing that the Ones are. And apparently the Ones are "what the Celestials become" or something. Which would seemingly preclude Abeloth from being a Celestial.
  22. purplerain Force Ghost

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    Sep 14, 2013
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    I meant that the font and pool turned Abeloth into a Celestial.
  23. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    And yet the Celestials are also said to have constructed Centerpoint Station by the good doctor.

    He's using "Celestial" as a blanket term as the explanation for a lot of unexplained phenomena which we know are derived from different groups.
  24. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

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    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    If I remember the Atlas correctly, that world and its role in galactic events was restricted (even if it technically became a republic member world)

    I KNEW IT!

    Yeah - and in that game, most of their technology was roughly equal to Republic tech of that game, and thus inferior to movie era tech, with the exception of some of their more esoteric force based inventions.

    I will pretend it was more some kind of mental representation of much more esoteric events, if not an outright illusion.

    I do think it is important to remember whatever Western Europe was going through, the rest of the world was getting along fine - and since Rome was integrated into the world system, much of its knowledge was stored elsewhere.

    Not to mention that while there technologies that were lost, there were also plenty of areas where Dark Age and Middle Age Europeans were more advanced than Rome.

    True enough.


    I guess I am just bitter that the barrier at the Galactic Edge wasn't simply the result of the galaxy's gravity warping hyperspace around it, making hyperspace travel impossible, or the galaxy's mass shadow.
  25. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Feb 17, 2004
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    All we know is conjecture! It could be a natural phenomenon attributed to the Celestials!
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 27, 2013