main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Books The Official TARKIN by James Luceno Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sable_Hart, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Again, that's the wrong way of thinking about it. Everything after Vision of the Future is certainly gone, but so too is Vision of the Future in the form that we knew it. That doesn't mean concepts, characters, and events from it won't be used, anymore than it means a living planet named Zonoma Sekot cannot show up. The "old" EU shouldn't be seen as a continuous, cohesive history that may have parts overwritten, but as a giant storyteller's toolbox that future writers can pull things out of. Or to put it another way:

    You must unlearn what you have learned.
     
    Jeff_Ferguson and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  2. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    That's simply not going to happen for some and no one can force it, either. Saying 'it's the wrong way to think of it' is rather harsh. Every individual has what they like/accept of SW and what they don't. The Mouse or any other fan doesn't have the right to tell them they're wrong. Ultimately, it's still a consumer/fan's choice. Regardless of labels thrown around. Oh, they may *say* such and such is 'cannon' but really it doesn't change anything. And what they're doing is merely adding insult to injury for some.
     
  3. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    No, I understand what they're trying to say in regards to what I'm trying to say. I still think we're talking past each other in some respects, but it's cool.
     
  4. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I'm not telling people what they can accept as canon. I'm saying that all the evidence suggests that Disney is not going to handle the old EU like someone writing an alternate history, where if you change one event you follow up on all of the logical divergences from that. Instead, it looks like they'll be treating it as a collection of disconnected story elements to pick and choose from. So saying that messing with Rogue Planet will wipe out everything from the NJO on (in the sense that it won't be used again) doesn't reflect, at least based on what it sounds like and what TCW did with the EU, how future writers are actually thinking of this.

    I'm not trying to tell anyone what to think about that, I just think that's how the evidence suggests they're going to do it.
     
  5. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I've been hearing that a lot recently but whatever. I just don't like people trying to force others to conform to their views. We're all different and our tastes aren't going to change simply because labels are thrown around. (For some). As I've said elsewhere I'm very likely just to jump ship. Some thought I'd be all 'fan girl' about this novel and I'm not. I'm afraid how they will damage Sir's character and say it's 'cannon'. I'm *wary*.

    Fair enough. Sorry I misread you. I agree they will use and distort whatever they choose from what we know. Yet, they are passing it off as a good thing. Some, like me, don't think it is because it will be different than what we know even if the element has the same label.
     
  6. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2001
    The Vong are no doubt waiting to show up in a post-credits scene of some future film. All the EU fans will go "WHEEEEOOOOOOO!!!", and everyone else in the theater will just give us strange looks. :D

    TC
     
  7. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Yeah, referencing Raith Sienar in Tarkin won't mean they take the Legends banner off the cover of future reprints of Rogue Planet and let it all in. In the same way, referencing Tarkin getting the idea for the Death Star from Dave Rendili doesn't mean that a living planet named Zonama Sekot couldn't show up in the future because "its source" was contradicted and so obviously Rogue Planet can never be canon. There's no reason to think that's the paradigm. It's just pulling from the Holocron, basically. And the Holocron is not organized by book; it's just a list of things. Zonama Sekot, living planet. Raith Sienar, head of Sienar Fleet Systems. Tsavong Lah, Yuuzhan Vong warmaster. Cole Fardreamer, some random mechanic. You're not canonizing a book, you're plucking a term from the Holocron. There's no alarm that goes off, "Ding ding ding, if you want to use AT-AAs you have to canonize Force Commander. If you want to use Nar Shaddaa you have to canonize Dark Empire. If you want to use the term 'MedStar' you have to canonize the MedStar Duology."
     
  8. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Oh... gods.... Nar Shaddaa also no longer exists.... now I am really getting depressed....
     
  9. Nom von Anor

    Nom von Anor Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2012
    Nal Hutta was in TCW, was it not? But I don't remember anything about a moon. :(
     
  10. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Yeah Nal Hutta was in TCW, but sadly no Nar Shaddaa seen, though could just have been behind the planet, as there are supposed to be some 7 moons anyway.
     
    Nom von Anor likes this.
  11. AlyxDinas

    AlyxDinas Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Luceno. It's all that really needs to be said. The only name that could one up him is "Stover". Otherwise, Luceno's one of the best the EU's ever had to offer. He understands the scale of the universe, the history, while also having a keen grasp on the fact that Star Wars is also about individuals. How they react and are shaped by the (pun not fully intended) forces around them. I eagerly await this book.
     
  12. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2010
    I still think a lot of stories will survive just on the basis of their general popularity. Notably most stuff pre-Bane, most PT era EU, and some stuff that predates Force Unleashed.

    But canon is going to be future fanon for most of us. I disagree with the current policy, but I acknowledge its intent and impact. I will choose to work around it in my own fandom, but won't ask anyone else to do so. Pick and choose what you think still fits and what doesn't that's all we can do now.
     
    Zorrixor likes this.
  13. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2003
    I'm so looking forward to this novel! I think Luceno is the EU author who captured the essence of Star Wars the best of the EU authors and I'm thrilled that he'll go on writing Star Wars.
     
  14. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    I just realized that this is exactly how things have been handled by most authors anyway.
     
  15. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Tarkin is a pathway to many story elements some consider to be unnatural that are some of my favorite parts of the EU, so there's a chance, however small, that good ol' Luceno will carry forward a niece whose marked distaste for her uncle's politics leads her to spying for the Rebellion, and the young Rebel historian and expert medal-bearer who is most interested in seeing her get away from the gilded trap that is her family.
     
  16. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Yeah, I'd so rather not, Sarek. I don't relish family schisms.
     
  17. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Well, Voren Na'al and Rivoche Tarkin are my favorite family in the Legends EU, so either way, there's a family split involved.
     
  18. mnjedi

    mnjedi JCC Arena Game Host star 5 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    As skeptical as I am of the new Disneyverse, the combination of Tarkin and Luceno is just too much pull for me to resist. It safe to say this and Kemps Vader Novel are the two things that are either going to pull me into the new universe or turn me off of the path Disney is headed onto. We'll see.
     
    wmu'14 likes this.
  19. vnu

    vnu Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2012
    It'd be impossible to write a novel starring Tarkin without mentioning his past and hinting at his future. I am eager to see how, or rather if, Luceno integrates aspects of Tarkin's Legends story into this new novel, particularly as that's how Luceno writes: namedropping everything he can thing of.
     
  20. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    I don't expect them not to, Sir. I simply don't like the history Sarek hinted at and appears to want cannon. Difference in taste, that's all.
     
  21. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
  22. Zorkel567

    Zorkel567 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2010
    I'm likely going to try this one out, being Luceno and all. I do hope for some sort of a reference to Daala anyways.
     
  23. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    Really? I figured Daala being wiped from canon would be one of the few things this forum would be celebrating.

    You guys have it right on the money, and I'm surprised at how many people aren't grasping it and are still in denial mode.There are two different universes now, two different realities. Writers of the new canon can pick and choose things from the old EU, but if Thrawn shows up, he won't bring any baggage with him. The writers are free to make him a struggling puppeteer if they want to, or give him any backstory they want. If they use Zonama Sekot, it won't wipe out the NJO because the NJO and its own version of Zonama Sekot exist in an entirely different universe.

    I think an apt comparison to the current situation is the Marvel Cinematic Universe. If a character from Marvel Comics shows up in an X-Men film, then moviegoers can't automatically expect "Wow! S/he'll totally know how to deal with this situation because in Issue #631 of Ultimate X-Men s/he learned that amazing life lesson and figured out Magneto's secret weakness." It's an entirely different universe from the comics, and the only things moviegoers should expect to be the same are the character's name and probably their mutant powers. Although even the powers may be different than their comic form (Juggernaut's momentum, anyone?).
    Literature
    We're past the days of TCW killing Even Piell and the EU consequently racing to catch up. If Luceno's new Tarkin novel says that Yaddle slipped on a banana peel and died during the Naboo Victory Celebration Parade, just after TPM's credits began to roll, then nothing in the old EU changes at all, as it's a non-canon alternate reality with its own version of Yaddle. Just as Cyclops's death in X3 has no effect on the X-Men comics. If Zonama Sekot is repurposed for the new canon, then nobody will tell new authors "You can't have a giant chicken named Vergere because she HAS to be connected to Zonama Sekot!" As Havac said, it's just pulling random things from the Holocron.
     
    TheRedBlade likes this.
  24. ATimson

    ATimson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Honestly, that analogy is better flipped: if a character dies in Avengers: Age of Ultron, that same character's death isn't necessarily going to affect the comics (the source material).

    While that's what is happening, I think that fans were hoping for something closer to DC's New 52: some stuff happened, some stuff didn't, and as they go along more prior history may be reincorporated into the story.

    Also, the X-men aren't part of the MCU. ;)
     
  25. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Going on the Marvel example, we have Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver appearing in Age of Ultron, but they'll most likely have no ties to Magneto or even mutants, since the MCU is mutant-free. Otherwise they'll be very similar to the source material. I have a feeling if EU elements appear in the ST, that'll be the case as well, barring someone showing up with little to no changes.

    So say Luke's Jedi Council shows up. There's always a chance it'll comprise of Corran, Kenth, and maybe even Cilghal, but there's an even better chance that their character histories will be tweaked to better fit the story of the ST. Same with Tarkin. Right now the only official appearances of his are those from TCW, a two-second appearance in ROTS, and of course ANH. Those will figure more into this new book than anything else. Unless Luceno is given free reign to write whatever the hell he wants into the story, in which case we'll probably get at least mentions of Garoche, Rivoche, Daala, Ackbar, Ars Dangor, et cetera et cetera.
     
    Revanfan1 likes this.