Discussion in 'EU Community' started by PadmeLeiaJaina, Nov 22, 2003.
I don't take anything past the YJK as canon.
Okay, so anyone else think that it's patently unfair for Allana to be with Han and Leia instead of Tenel Ka?
I do, especially when you consider what a wonderful job Han and Leia did with their own children.
I'd have to disagree, sorry
I really enjoying reading the scenes with Allana and Han being a grandpa. But I also think it will be better for Allana to be with Han and Leia than Tenel Ka. On Hapes she would always be under the threat of assasination, and she'd also have all the pressure about being the new queen. I think it's good for her to be away from all that and just having adventures with Han and Leia (like in millennium falcon) Maybe when it gets more dangerous she should go back to Hapes.
Also I think she's enjoying getting to know her grandparents and more of her family after she missed out on that
About what you said Thrawn, I don't think it's just the parent's fault. Jaina and Jacen are/were over 30-years-old and can think for themselves. There are plenty of people in real life who haven't had the best upbringing and still have happy and successful lives. I think Han and Leia will do a wonderful job with Allana and will learn from some mistakes with their own children. I can't see Allana being kidnapped, for example.
I would like to see Tenel Ka back in the story, but not just because Allana goes back to Hapes. I have a feeling she's only going to be around as Allana's mother
Your example was the primary reason behind my statement-it seemed like the kids were getting kidnapped every time the wind changed in the SW universe(as a Creative Writing major, I gotta say that using the same plot device over and over gets really old very quickly from a reader's POV, and it additionally makes the author look lazy unless they come up with a terrific change).
Also, it seemed as if every time the twins/Anakin/all three were recovered, as soon as they were safe they got shoved off on Winter or someone else. I understand that Leia and Han had to do that due to whatever the situation at hand was, but at the same time, looking back, aside from any kidnapping recoveries it seemed like they barely spent any real time with their children. Maybe I'm just not remembering correctly, but that's what I assumed. I do remember reading the Jedi Academy trilogy and not having too much sympathy for Leia when she got upset over the twins missing Winter because of that fact.
The main thing that bothers me about Han and Leia as parents isn't necessarily the kidnapping/babysitting thing. I mean, they did what they had to do there. Whenever the kids were kidnapped, the rest of the family would move earth and galaxy to go rescue them. As for shoving them off to babysitters, back then they (especially Leia) had tons of responsibilities to the New Republic. Personally, I think they should've been sent to Luke's Jedi academy instead of with Winter, but I still think Han and Leia did the best they could with what they had.
No, my problem has to do with Han and Leia with regard to Jacen when he was falling to the dark side. They weren't there for him at all; they did nothing to try to help him. As soon as they noticed the signs (killing Ailyn in interrogation), they immediately disowned him and distanced themselves from him as much as possible. Han also did such wonderful, fatherly things as telling Jacen he wished he could blow him to atoms or that he'd died against Onimi, saying he should've dropped him out a medcenter window when he was born, or when Jaina suggested that possibly, just maybe, Jacen might sort of be able to be redeemed, he silenced her harshly saying, "He's not!"
Leia was only marginally better, but she said nothing when Han disowned him. Later, over Kashyyyk, she did call for his surrender, but calling for surrender isn't quite the same as pulling a Luke on Endor and turning yourself in to bring out the good in the Sith Lord. She sort of did that a book later on the Anakin Solo, and on the surface it's a laudable attempt to reach out to her son--until you realize that it was only a ruse to infiltrate his ship and Leia deliberately said things she knew would get Jacen/Caedus worked up and cloud his focus. Wow, what a wonderful mother she is.
So what will Han and Leia do if later on Allana starts struggling with the dark side? Disown her at the first sign of trouble? Will they want to blast her to atoms too? Will they form elaborate plots to trick her as well? Demand surrender instead of risking themselves to reach out? Maybe send a team of Bothan assassins her way? Or why not Aunt Jaina, since she was so good at it against Allana's father?
So yeah, that's my problem with Han and Leia's characterizations in the LotF series. As parents, they should never have given up on their son--or at least nowhere near as easily as they did. Sorry, but this is a major sore point for me.
Maybe parenting is just not supposed to be all that great in the SW universe? I mean, you've got Han and Leia, Padme's death once the twins are born, the unknown parential backstories of Han and Mara Jade...
Is there such a thing as a normal family in Star Wars?
Actually, I think Wedge Antilles' family is about as close to normal as we get in the SW universe.
Side note: I've often wondered, if I ever became a fascist dictator of a police state responsible for the deaths of millions and countless atrocities, what my mom would do. She's dead of course, so it's a moot point. But since she's been the closest and most loving person to me whom I've known in my entire life, it's interesting think about if she would stop at nothing to bring me back around or if she would eventually give up and condone a mission for my assassination.
(Yes, I'm morbid. )
Sorry Thrawn, I think I misunderstood what you said. But yes, being kidnapped repeatedly then sent away again would not be good for a child.
I'd agree that parenting in the SW universe hasn't been portrayed as good as it should be. Sometimes when I read parts of the EU I think that Han and Leia and Luke and Mara are not good parents.
However, I think it is understandable that Han and Leia distanced themselves from Jacen after he slipped up the first time and tortured that bounty hunter to death. I used to think they were wrong, but recently I heard about a horrific crime where a group of people did that in real life. I was shocked and disgusted by it, then thought about how terrible the parents must feel (because these people were teenagers). If my child did that I would probably (I can't really know until I have children - a long way away ) want nothing to do with them. I think I understand now how Han felt and why he would like to think that Jacen was a different person and that Jacen had really died at Myrkr (however I don't think it should have been that time because Jacen saved the galaxy after he came back)
So you seriously think Han and Leia were right to abandon their own son to the darkness once they saw clear signs that he was falling? You don't think they should've done anything to help him? To bring him back to the light? Isn't part of parenting to protect your children, even if that means protecting them from themselves?
Yes, I agree they should have done something. Talked to him at least. But I can understand why they wouldn't want to confront him. What Jacen did was horrible. As parents Han and Leia don't want to believe that their son did that, I guess their way of dealing with it was to avoid him, and pretend that the situation wasn't as bad as it really was. They should have acted before things went too far (Kashyyyk). And that's a shame because their support might have brought Jacen back to the light.
I don't agree completely with the way Han and Leia were written. I think Han disowning Jacen in Bloodlines could have contributed to his fall.
Isn't part of parenting to protect your children, even if that means protecting them from themselves?
I agree with that. But it can only go so far. What if your child is a cold-blooded murderer, like Jacen was when he burned Kashyyyk?
I think I already said that someone of Jacen's age can definitely think for themselves. Why should it be the parents responsibility for what he does? They don't have anything to do with it (I guess you could argue that the way they brought him up and also the way they treat him now has contributed to his actions. But they don't have an active part in it)
I think if I had a kid and that kid became a fascist dictator I would still stand behind him... and convince him to make me his queen. As for Han and Leia raising Allana, I'd have chosen relatives on Dathomir instead, but it's good to get to know family at long last.
Ugh, sorry. Been too long.
I simp,y hate that Tenel Ka's been separated from pretty much the only relative now who loves her. She's all alone now on Hapes...
And WHERE in the hell has she been in FOTJ???
Don't know, don't care about, or have time for anything related to FOTJ. I've seen fanfiction written better than some of these EU novels, especially when it comes to TK.
Far as I care, Tenel Ka got to capture her Jacen dathomiri witch style and kept him. Despite Hapan politics and Sith threatening the outside world time and time again, she's living the beginning of her very long and happy life. It's only fair that she lives for several hundred years since we've seen powerful witches do that and she's definitely strong. She and Kirana. She remains a strong and active ally of the Jedi for life.
Allana grows up with her parents until they send her off to the Jedi Academy at the same age that they went. She has her own group of friends and YJK-like stories. She also makes cameos in many other post-DN era stories, sometimes playing a central role.
Isolder also got to stay and partake in all of it until he died of old age, which was way after LOTF.
I sorta agree, Sil. Except for me, the timeline ended right after the YJK. The Vong never invaded and Tenel Ka and Jacen had a long, happy life together.
We can leave that era ambiguous. I think our versions are similar enough
How does, say, a mysterious plague or a political intrigue, sound in terms of replacing the Yuuzhan Vong as the highlighted NJO era story?
The intrigue sounds best to me. Meatier, IMHO.
Ok, then how about Daala and Ta'a Chume, along with their political resources, team against our heroes? They should make great villains
Now, let's add the Zel kids in. They think they're ordinary kids, born to a mom and an anonymous father who presumably left early on to return to his mother's house. Then they get the surprise of their life when their idol, princess Tenel Ka, shows up at their house and tells them that their father is Ta'a Chume's third son and he left them so that the royals would never think of them as Ta'a Chume's potential heirs. Additionally, she tells the kids that people are about to discover them and they need to move to keep from getting killed.
Meanwhile, Jacen is trying his damned best to block Daala's entrance into the Royal Court, with hilariously predictable results.
Jacen should do that, if Daala gets past Jaina, Zekk, and Anakin, who are keeping the ship from landing in the first place.
I doubt they'd shoot unless Daala fires first. And Daala's not that stupid.
Well, we need them in some sorta major space-based action that doesn't involve casualties on the Solo side.
They can take on 'rogue' elements of Daala's faction. Plausible deniability for the Bond Girl.
okk now we just need a good place to put Tahiri... more rogue elements elsewhere?
That sounds good to me, SIl. She need some action.
Okay... it's how many books into FOTJ and barely a blip of Tenel Ka? This is bantha shavit! She's leader of one of the more powerful GA members... NR... nation-state... whatever.
It's ridiculous, basically.