Discussion in 'Literature' started by Rogue_Follower, Nov 23, 2011.
If I was a mod, I wouldn't ask nicely.
I am a mod, and I will ask nicely.
ASO, don't dredge up old comments unless you're willing to respond to them more substantially. This thread is the Revan novel discussion thread and it's been off topic enough already.
I wasn't aware that asking someone else to get off my back was considered modding in this forum.
If you want to defend Genghis's disgusting, horrific comments by preventing people from replying to them then I guess I'll stick to JCC from now on, where misogynists aren't protected by the administration so thoroughly. You know this kind of forum culture is why Sapient was able to get away with his actions for so long.
Obviously we have very lax standards here in Lit.
I'm not preventing you from replying to his comments. However, I do ask that you do a little more than just make choice pull quotes.
Since we're so keen on discussing Bastila...
Was there any indication in the novel that Bastila was capable of using the Force? I'm sure Drew mentioned it at least once, but I don't know...
Obviously Revan stripped her of the Force after a particularly bad argument.
That least that would help explain how an extremely powerful force-user was demoted to a token 1950's housewife that also got jealous of other women by DK. Maybe she was trying to hack into Raven's Facebook account while he was away too.
I once read a theory where the PC being Revan was actually just a lie made up collaboratively by the Republic and the Sith in order to betray Carth one final time.
You've just made me want to go back and replay KOTOR1 purely for that reason.
A bit late responding but...
I'm pretty sure by double standard Alyx means exactly what was stated: that people complain about the daddy running out on his kid, then suggest that mommy abandon the baby as well. Even if your suggestion is that Bastila wait until Vaner can take care of himself, there's no reason for her to believe that Revan isn't on his way back to her already. Or, perhaps, by the time of the end of the book (pre-Epilogue) she can sense the situation he's in and doesn't want to EVER admit to Vaner that his father has been on the verge of unending torture for the last thirty-plus years. I think Bastila made the right decision. Yes, she was a Jedi. Yes, had she wanted to, she could have convinced many people to go looking for Revan. But on the flip side of the Jedi coin, she may have known what was happening to him and decided that nothing she could do would bring him back to her. She knows he's still alive and that his absence means he was successful. His part in raising their child was preventing Vaner from being forced to live through perpetual war. Sure, Revan obviously couldn't prevent the war, but he delayed it so that nobody he knew could have possibly been alive. His descendants still had to fight a war, but it was centuries later. Centuries.
And Bastila, even without Revan, lived a peaceful life. She protected Vaner throughout the Kreia incident. Downplayed as it was, still Bastila had to defend herself (which many Jedi COULDN'T) and a small child (which is overkill in proving how badass Bastila "Momma Bear" Shan can be when she needs to) from the latest round of Sith purging of the Jedi Order. Just because we don't see that Bastila had more adventures and heroics in store for her doesn't mean she didn't. Karpyshyn can't just write EVERYTHING, not when someone else might be able to work a good story out of the gaps he left in the timeline.
I got Revan on kindle and loved most of it. i was bothered by kotor 2 being treated like it didn't happen though. i put hundreds of hours into the kotor games, and i really liked Revan.
Meh...that's reasonably accurate, as far as we know. Kreia/Trayus was obviously a former Jedi. Nihilus was a former Jedi (at least, it's assumed that he was). Sion's background isn't known well enough, it's possible that he was a Jedi prior to becoming a follower of Exar Kun. Regardless, all the other members at the Trayus Academy are almost assuredly all prior Jedi.
Yeah, it's not the best way to phrase things, but "rogue Jedi" and "Sith" aren't mutually exclusive. Darth Vader was a rogue/Dark/fallen Jedi, too.
I think it's a better way of distinguishing them from the "true" Sith than calling Kreia and her ilk "fake Sith", or "lesser Sith", or something similarly demeaning.
In essence the power of long life is talked about in this book
Utterly ridiculous. You've read this thread and come away with the notion that the administration is somehow protecting anything?!? Really? I guess you ignored the disgusting, race-baiting by the mods that would get most people banned.
I found a pretty interesting take on the Walking Dead's Lori from the actress that plays her, Sarah Wayne Callies. Certainly, Bastila has not gone on to have the inadvertent love-child of Revan's best friend -- say Canderous or Jolee Bindo, for instance -- but both have their issues and faced the loss of their spouse.
"And, within the group, she's becoming a matriarch, in a sense. She's the keeper of our rituals, as well as of our hearts and home and hopes. This is not a woman who considers herself a feminist. She considers herself a homemaker, in the sense that making a home for people in a world that is a living hell is a pretty powerful position."
This is a person who has raised someone who could easily -- easily -- be the Supreme Chancellor of the entire Galactic Republic. ("You joke, but if you wanted that post you could have it.")
That is a choice to be praised. That is something which few in the entire history of the GFFA have accomplished.
Anyone who suggests that TOR: Revan's Bastila is a passive housewife really holds a disgustingly dim view of housewives, and women in general.
The Bastila we see in Revan is not anyone to be demeaned; her choices aren't something to hold with disdain or be regretted. Through her strength, she has molded her and Revan's gift of a child into something that could be a gift to the entire GFFA.
You want to talk of strength or power; it is not those who are the Kings. It's the women like Bastila who have made such men into kings.
So she's gone from nagging harpy who deserves to be marginalized into a pillar of strength, eh? I guess we'd better stop now and let you win, because if you went through any more rhetorical contortions you'd break your spine.
Jello, did you even play through KotoR to realize Bastila's growth as a character (I'll say from padawan to Jedi Master, but there's apparently different opinions on that). Apparently not. I guess if you think she always was some sort of experienced badass who walks on water from the start, then there wasn't any growth as a person for her at all.
Actually, yes, she was already a famous Jedi at the start. Everybody says so. But then we went over this already. We're not talking about her status as a Jedi, though, but as a person and you sounded off on that. Of course, if the implication is that she's "not that great a woman" until she's raises a child fit to be king and/or becomes stronger, then I'm sure that's entirely in keeping with what you've posted so far.
Anyway, I think that should be all I've said about that or we'll throw the Lit mods into conniptions for not talking about something else.
We've been over that and now you're just not being accurate. It wasn't "everybody." Some of Bastila's closest companions on the KotoR journey viewed her the same way. HK-47 even continues his pretty "disgusting" -- as you all would characterize it -- opinion of her for years, well into the end of KOTOR2.
The Betrayal of Darth Revan? She owes Darth Malak a great deal of thanks for the high opinion you so highly value her with. "But she was the one who captured Revan." If only the galaxy knew the truth.
She grew by leaps and bounds as a character because of her ordeals -- that's the whole point of putting work into the game sidequests. To see her move from an inexperienced padawan, a nagging, hypocritical harpy, into a Jedi worthy of legend.
That's not at all accurate. The book made many references to Malachor V and featured the Exile as a major character. Atris appeared in Part 1. In Part 2 we heard about the Sith Triumvirate's war against the Jedi which produced the situation seen in the game, as well as the Exile's defeat of Traya; we also heard of the new Jedi Council. It was specifically mentioned that Bastila had hoped there would be decades of peace after the defeat of Malak, and that she chose to protect Vaner instead of fighting the Sith Triumvirate all by herself. A major plot fulcrum of the novel was Revan's journey into the Unknown Regions, which was only revealed in the second game, not the first. Similarly, the book featured the ascension of Canderous Ordo to the position of Mandalore, an event which we only know about due to Canderous appearing as Mandalore in the second game. In fact, on the subject of Canderous' knowledge of Sith involvement in the Mandalorian Wars, the book followed the continuity of KOTOR 2 rather than that of the first game. As another example, the book described the crashed starships buried in the soil ( complete with Republic corpses ) that the player encountered on Malachor in the game.
It is fair to say that this book was not all about KOTOR 2. It is fair to say that it omitted mention of the Exile's unique Force bonding ability ( though it did mention that she had a bond with Revan ). But it is totally indefensible to claim that KOTOR 2 was treated like it didn't happen.
Replying to this here, to keep the review thread clutter free:
Agreed. That said, I can sympathise with the criticism insofar as [TOR SPOILERS] [hl=black]it's disappointing for Revan to be rescued and then later slain by people with whom he has no history or personal connection.
As I've mentioned before, it is akin to Han Solo being passed over in RotJ and rescued a hundred years down the line by Shado before he's killed off by Darth Nihl in his next appearance. It certainly wouldn't be an insult to Han's skill -- it's perfectly feasible -- but it does leave a bad taste in the mouth, regardless. Though YMMV, naturally.
Had time been spent building a connection/relationship (adversarial though it may have been) between Revan and his rescuers and killers, I think the issue would be almost entirely mitigated. By all means, have him defeated in the foundry... but why not have him escape to threaten the Imperial (and possibly Republic) protagonists again? Whatever you think of his character, or lack thereof, he is nevertheless a huge historical figure of the Old Republic era with a great deal of potential.
Hell, while I'm sure many would disagree, I think he'd make a pretty awesome companion for one of the high level Republic classes, if only to explore the "fish out of temporal water" angle. (MAKE HIM ROMANCEABLE BY THE FEMALE TROOPER! )
Either way, I worry for Commander Shepard if BioWare ever deign to do a ME MMO in the future. [/hl]
[hl=black]This is easily avoided.
Let your Shephard die at the end of ME2.[/hl]
Problem solved. [facE_tongue]
It's hilarious how heavily BioWare marketed what was, essentially, a non-standard game over as a feature.
That would be terrible. Imagine an insane Commander Shepard (newly freed from Reaper captivity) gone rogue alongside a 300 year old Garrus getting ganked by a few adventurers.
Though I would like to hear Mark Meer play that out...
"I'm getting tired of your disingenuous assertions!"
Quoting Charles from another thread about a different book:
This brought to mind something I'd been meaning to discuss about Revan.
Since I haven't read the comics in many years, I know I need to brush up on my TOTJ history. But the book mentions how the Jedi attempted to wipe out the Sith race, and thought they had succeeded. It even uses the phrase "revenge of the Jedi" in one place. I would tend to think that in SW circles that phrase comes with well-known preeexisting baggage: that it was considered as a title for Episode VI but dropped because "Jedi don't take revenge".
So, what's the deal with the Jedi of their day trying to wipe out a species? Are we to assume that they were somewhat less enlightened than their future counterparts?
There's a lot of weird stuff in the Golden Age of the Sith comics and I'm not talking about laser swords with battery chords. Odan Urr helps Empress Teta murder a bunch of rebels for example. It's implied, really, the Republic is engaging in a bunch of military conquest and the Jedi are like, "Sweet. I want in on that action."