O.K. "Not PT" but from the EU ("light side"). The point was that you were making an argument about the OT using terms that are outside of the OT films themselves: "light" side, "turned", etc. I said 'on MORAL grounds'....that it's "on screen" doesn't refute it as such. Such an odd position: "If it's on-screen, you can't criticize it!" . It's only "debunked" because it's in a piece of fiction called Star Wars, where the 'moral question' got ruled-out a priori (well, with ROTJ anyway) because the creator wanted to 'redeem' a (by his own words "un-redeemable") character at all costs (though this probably had more to do with Luke's arc than Vader's/Anakin's). In any other setting/situation such ruling-out of the moral question wouldn't have been the case. Like I said, one could 'justify' the 'redemption' (read: ghosting) back when it's importance was tied more with Luke's character arc, but now that's not the case anymore. The ROTJ SE in particular has everything to do with this, and if appearances don't matter, why was it changed ? Well, then it would be foolish of you to rest your case re: Vader's "diminished potential" on the above "IF". You still have yet to establish that Lucas was following an already established character arc with Vader that pertained to his "diminished Force potential" (and, the lack of mention of this element in the Vader character notes from the TESB pre-production 77-78 era that one can find in Rinzler's "Making of TESB" book). Would that 'evidence' be Vader getting kicked down the stairs in the ROTJ lightsaber battle?