The opposite of feminism -- masculinism?

You could say the young are discriminated against as well. Teenagers of all genders have to pay more for car insurance, because THEY CAUSE MORE ACCIDENTS. This year's statistics said male and female teenage crashes are about equal, I think, so the costs in that area may be evened out; teenage males are charged more than teenage females, but teenage females pay more than adults. But if adult males cause more crashes than adult females, it's simply a sensible business move on the insurance companies' parts. Just like with teenagers. They are more of a liability.

 

It's still a double standard.

I fail to see how my choosing a different label for something is a double standard. I choose the label "Men's Movement" because the political and legal agenda of the Men's Movement is to promote the equality of men (and by extension women) in the areas I illustrated. Yes, I have qualms about using the term "masculinism" because of the negative connotation associated with the word. In actuality, I could care less what it's called. However, as long as people associate the term "masculinism" or "masculinist" with bottom of the barrel he-man ugh!ugh! male superiority type behavior, I will refuse to use that term for the legitmate political and legal agenda of the Men's Movement. I really do not want to get into a semantics debate because it detracts from the seriousness of the issue at hand.

Actually they can break their nose at any time of school property. They could trip and fall. Do we demand the school pay for that too?

Yes, we do all the time. We leave children in the responsibility of the school and the school is responsible for making sure that kids are safe. If the school board decides to dump activities that have a high instance of injury, then it is within their rights, especially if they're paying the medical bills! You or I might not like it, but that's the way it is.

 

Kit: I was reference fire_ice, not you

I agree with what you're saying too.

 

Actually feminism could be associated with any number derogotory terms as well. Ever seen PCU? I think they illustrate the feminist movement quite good and how messed up it is now. Also, there's nothing wrong with the name. In spanish they have masculine and feminine forms. Does that mean they're macho morons as well?

 

That's cool chibiangi I wasn't quite sure

Okay...now to adress what my take on the matter is...


I think that most feminists have taken it waaay too far. Germaine Greer is an excellant example of this, she started calling all women who wanted to have children and stay at home as selfish and incosiderate people who were killing the feminist movement. [roll eyes]

The way I see it the feminist movement should really be (but isn't) about choice. About a woman's right to choose what she wants to do in life and the way that she wants to be treated. If that means that she wants to stay at home and look after the kids then that should be respected and applauded...on the other hand, if she wants to move up the corporate ladder and challenge what has historically been, and still is, a 'man's world' then she should be applauded in that too.

The same goes with men. If a man wants to stay at home and look after the kids, then he should have every right to. If he wants to work, then he should have every right to there as well. That is what the men's movement should be doing...tempering the outspoken voices of the other groups and trying to moderate so that policy is fair for all and not just for the benefit of one group at the detriment of the rest of society.

Hugs
Kithera

 

I agree with Kit. That bothers me about the feminist movement, too.

I plan to work after college until I have kids. But once I have kids, I want to raise them myself. I don't want daycare raising my kids, and I really want to be there to see them as they grow up. And it bugs me, the feminists who put people like that down.

 

It's obvious that the term feminism has derogatory meanings, just look at the vitriol with which the term is used on the boards. Why can't you let me use the term Men's Movement in peace? I happen to like it better than masculinism and it's no skin off your nose.

As for Spanish using masculine and feminine words, that is a totally different usage than the way masculinism and feminism are being used here.

So can we drop the semantics?

 

It's obvious that the term feminism has derogatory meanings, just look at the vitriol with which the term is used on the boards. Why can't you let me use the term Men's Movement in peace? I happen to like it better than masculinism and it's no skin off your nose.

As for Spanish using masculine and feminine words, that is a totally different usage than the way masculinism and feminism are being used here.

So can we drop the semantics?

Not different, only different in your eyes. But yes, we shall drop the semantics. I still don't like men's movement though. Sounds like something you do in the bathroom.

 

Not different, only different in your eyes. But yes, we shall drop the semantics. I still don't like men's movement though. Sounds like something you do in the bathroom.

 

Well, they can't...because the Women's Movement already clogged the facilities

 

Ahh....I forgot. *leaves seat up*

 

funny stuff.

My big gripe is the double standard that women often get these days. Girls can talk about who they think is hot all the time, and can act as if the lateist hot guy is a pece of meat for them to fantisie (out loud to their friends)about, and it's merely expressing thier sexulaity.
If a bunch of guys do that, they are just pigs who see women as a pair of boobs, an ass, and mayibe a nice face.
That and the jokes at men's expence that seem to be okay to tell, but any jokes at a womans expence are tabbo.

 

Gutter_Monkey -- your argument could also be applied to racial issues: it's OK for African-Americans to make racist jokes about whites, but not OK for whites to make racist jokes about African-Americans...

 

For those who are concerned that men's issues are being neglected (and in cases like child custody, I wholeheartedly agree), are you also stipulating that women's issues are no longer relevant? Do you think true equality has been achieved?

I only ask because I, as a young female physics/astronomy college faculty member, frequently get treated with disrespect. Not from my peers, but from students and staff who expect a man to walk in the room.

 

If you think it's tough to be a proud white male ---
try being a proud white male in the southern United States!

 

For those who are concerned that men's issues are being neglected (and in cases like child custody, I wholeheartedly agree), are you also stipulating that women's issues are no longer relevant? Do you think true equality has been achieved?

I only ask because I, as a young female physics/astronomy college faculty member, frequently get treated with disrespect. Not from my peers, but from students and staff who expect a man to walk in the room.


True equality will never be achieved until both sexes realize that neither is better than the other. Which both seem to neglect quite often. Trust me, both are the same in that respect. As to the college problem, I think you should take that up with the dean.

Hey, I just learned something. Male pattern baldness comes from women and not men. The extra X chromosome makes that gene recessive in females. Another thing to gripe about.

If you think it's tough to be a proud white male ---
try being a proud white male in the southern United States!

Yeah, us northern white males think we're oppressed, I can't imagine what it's like in the south.

 

dustchick, of course not, women's issues are still very important.
I am sorry that your students are such androcentric chauvinists, but I am not surprised, a lot of men don't take women seriously and pretty much expect all of us to be either housewives or secretaries or elementary school teachers.

 

dustchick, of course not, women's issues are still very important.
I am sorry that your students are such androcentric chauvinists, but I am not surprised, a lot of men don't take women seriously and pretty much expect all of us to be either housewives or secretaries or elementary school teachers.

That a fact? Or is that your opinion?

 

It is experience... sadly...

 

Yeah, well I dunno, but a majority of men, or at least the ones I know, aren't like that. Girls assume because a guy makes a comment like "Girls could never be SEALs" that they assume all women are good for is education. I'm all for equality, but if women expect to take the easy route then I say to hell with them. Which sadly, most girls seem to think they're entitled to. The easier route.

 

men don't take women seriously and pretty much expect all of us to be either housewives or secretaries or elementary school teachers.

What about women who want to be secretaries or housewives or school teachers???? I've heard a lot of complaints from feminists about women who want to take on these roles (and none of them are easy) that they are holding back progress or destroying the movement altogether. It hurts when you hear this, because last time I checked (and I have mentioned this before) the feminist movement, or rather the objective of the original feminist movement was about choice for women.

I feel exactly the same way about guys. I guy should be able to choose what he wants to do. If a man steps up for a job and is more qualified then the woman who is interviewed after him, then he should get the job. If the woman is more qualified than she should get the job. It should be about fairness (an optomistic attitude I know), not about filling quotas or obeying stupid equal rights laws. If a man can do the job then the man should get it, if the woman can do it then she should be able to no matter what colour or religion or sex they are. However, if there is inequality because of discriminating behaviour from higher management, then that should be addressed on its own.

I know my views are optomistic, but I've always been taught that people should be accepted because of the way that they behave and attitude that they present, not the colour or gender or sexual preference that they present. People should also be treated politely (including the whole door opening thing and the waiting) to me, they are just common courtesy for both genders.

Kithera

 

I have no problems with women who choose to be housewives. In my opinion, everybody should have the right to be happy, and these choices are all part of our attempts to find happiness in life.

I only posted my experience in that I want to make it clear that, for all of the progress made towards leveling the career playing field for women, there is still more to be done. Should women be allowed to be firemen? Of course, if they meet the qualifications. I'm not for changing standards. I can state quite happily that I make as much money as the men who hold my position with equivalent educational background and experience.

My major concern is that we have not changed the expectations of the various roles that people can perform. Why should it be a surprise that I have a PhD in physics? Why is it that less than 20% of physics PhDs are female? If your child is female and decides to stop taking math after geometry, would she get the same lecture as your male child would who made the same decision?

It would be different if I could say that all of the gender bias I've encountered was from the "older" generation, but sadly it comes mostly from young women. Make of that what you will, I find it sad.

I also think that changing gender roles only improves things for men. Before you get angry, let me make the following point. Many rules (sexual harassment protection, child custody) have been developed because women were perceived as weaker. The majority of sexual harassment rules are written to prevent people (no gender specified) in authoritative positions from taking advantage of their workers - if more men have management level positions, who's most likely to have authority? Likewise, if a woman has been the constant homemaker and companion to the children, she's more likely to have a sympathetic argument for child custody than a women who makes equivalent money and spends equal time at work as her husband.

And aren't the majority of the judges in this country male? What if the next generation of judges didn't grow up with the "distant father", "nurturing mother" stereotypes? Wouldn't that make things better?

 

Kit - you've said some very interesting things here. I agree with almost all of it. Germaine Greer was once a pioneer, but now is a has-been who doesn't like the fact she has passed her use by date. Some of her comments these days are laughable and I think SHE is the one hurting the feminist movement.

Surely in a civilised society, the differences between men and women should be seen as assets, not disadvantages. Aren't we intelligent and secure enough to acknowledge the differences and get on with it?

 

Funny fox news PC article

 

Do any men here make females guests in your house leave the seat up? I do it all the time! It is absolutely hilarious to see the reactions I get in return.