The opposite of feminism -- masculinism?

Reading this thread hasn't helped me form my own opinion on much discussed, I'm as confused as I was before.

So I'll just share a personal experience with you all and my thoughts on THAT.

I am only 15, but I do know what I want to do. I want to be a housewife. Nothing more, nothing less. This year in school, we chose our subjects for the HSC years, these subjects generally dictate the courses you take in University, and so we were talking about what we wanted to do for the rest of our lives. I said I wanted to be a housewife.

Big mistake.

My school is an all girls private school that focusses on this slogan "Abbotsleigh girls can do anything!" Needless to say, it is a very feminist environment, and my statement caused my friends to first stare in shock, then do everything they could to dissuade me from my chosen path.

They threw words at me, such as 'doormat' 'killing your dreams' 'losing your identity' 'losing your power as a woman'

I was utterly crushed. I felt like bursting out in tears right then and there, but I didn't, because it would only give them more ammo to attack me with.

The thing is, they automatically assumed that I didn't want to be a mother, even though I said that. Someone told me not to give in to social pressure.

I burst out laughing and laughed until I cried. They couldn't figure out what was so funny. I told them I thought it was funny because giving into social pressure would have meant that I WOULDN't want to be a housewife. The social pressure these days is to power on for womens rights, break the glass ceiling, power on in the corporate world. My desire to be a housewife is going AGAINST the social grain.

Feminism HAS gone too far. I think the idea of a Men's Movement is a good one, and I will support it if the oppurtunity comes around. Equal rights DOES mean a balance, not women being better than men or men being better than women.

It makes me feel good when a guy opens my door, pulls out my chair or takes my coat. It makes me feel special and makes my opinion of that man rise. It doesn't offend me that he thinks I'm incapable of opening my door, or something stupid like that. My family originated in Texas, and I have a lot of gentlemen in my family who DO open my door and pull out my chair. My little brother included. You know what girls my brother's age keep telling me?
"He so sweet!"
not
"He's SUCH a chauvinist."

Not all power to women, or all power to men. But equal power to the both of them

This extremely long post was brought to you by TheBiggerFish.

 

So I'm curious, TheBiggerFish, why are you at an all girls' private school? I'm curious because I, in my non-traditional gender role, am vehemently opposed to single-sex education. Whenever I see movements to make all-girls math classes and such, I want to scream.

I consider myself a feminist because I expect equal treatment and in my profession, I am occasionally confronted by people who think I'm out of place. I wonder if I could handle that if I didn't interact with men until university?

 

Whenever I see movements to make all-girls math classes and such, I want to scream.

As an education student, I know why they do this. It's been proven that girls perform better in single-sex classrooms in some subjects. Boys normally and for most subjects perform better in a dual-sex environment

I know many people on this boards won't agree with me, so I'll try and find the article on it

Hugs
Kithera

Oh, and I went to an all-girls high school too. Guess what! You'll find more hard-core feminists in that school them most co-ed ones...

 

Hmm. I want to be a stay at home mother myself, but it's not my only goal. I'd love to write a novel. And that is something I'd get the chance to do, when the kids were napping or in school. And I still want the education to be able to persue a career. Because you never know what will happen and when you might need to earn a living. Not to mention I have no interest in marrying right out of college.

 

[/i] As an education student, I know why they do this. It's been proven that girls perform better in single-sex classrooms in some subjects. Boys normally and for most subjects perform better in a dual-sex environment [/i]

Thats a stickler. No matter which way you go one gender will get shafted, how do you choose which? If you go with the single sex classes, the girls will do better and the guys will perform poorer. If you go with the co-ed classes then the boys do better and the girls poorer.

Personally (and nothing against females) I say do the co-ed. Girls can't expect to be placed in a room together in the real world. They must learn to work with the guys and perform just as well.

 

I also believe co-ed is a better environment to learn in for the real world, and am against single-sex classes in public schools. If the boys are distracting the girls, the girls should learn to deal with and ignore distractions, because they are going to have to deal with distractions every day of their adult lives. Women are going to have to compete with men, and not just other women, for jobs.

 

Thats a stickler. No matter which way you go one gender will get shafted, how do you choose which? If you go with the single sex classes, the girls will do better and the guys will perform poorer. If you go with the co-ed classes then the boys do better and the girls poorer.

Yep. And that is the problem. What they tend to now-a-days is try and seperate the girls and boys in maths and english while every other class is co-ed. This is because the girls perform better in a single-sex maths class, and as boys are normally better at maths then their female counterparts at that age there is not a big a disadvantage for the girls.

With English, the boys are at a severe disadvantage as they usually (but not always) have social and english skills that are consistently lower then the girls. By seperating the sexes, the teachers can focus on the particular group. Now, instead of waiting for the girls to answer the question, the focus is totally on the boys to do the work (switch the genders around for the maths classroom and you find the same thing). Therefore the teachers can give a specific lesson that will both appeal to the particular sex for which it is focused and will also make them learn.

As you pointed out though...seperating both sexes permanently often has a large affect on social skills (I've found the affect worse for boys then girls) and the way that the one sex interacts with the other.

Kithera

 

If the boys are distracting the girls, the girls should learn to deal with and ignore distractions, because they are going to have to deal with distractions every day of their adult lives. Women are going to have to compete with men, and not just other women, for jobs.

It's not about that. It's about giving the best education to both sexes. If you look at it, it isn't the boys who are distracting the girls. Actually, it is the other girls in the classroom that are vyiing (sp) for the boys attention that is what the girls find so distracting. It also works the other way around. In this classroom atmosphere it makes sense to remove what ever is distracting people, in order for them to focus.

As for adult male/adult female interaction, I think that you'll find a marked difference between the maturity and focusing skills of a twelve year old and that of a thirty year old or even an eighteen year old person. Children still learn how to operate with thier peers if you only seperate english and math classrooms. You'll find that even the playground gives those skills quite easily.

Even so. I spent my highschool years (as I mentioned before) in a single-sex school. I now work with both men and women and have never encountered a single problem dealing with either sex.

Kithera

 

I didn't like school, but I would have hated it even more without the boys around. I found the girls to be far nastier. At least if they were paying attention to the boys they couldn't torture me....

A single sex school would not have helped me at all. Like I said, I think it would have made it worse. And for better for worse, I do think I benefited from interacting with both boys and girls. I'm not that great at math, but it has little to do with how I was educated. All of my high school math was done at home one on one with my dad who gave me all the attention I needed. I just don't remember math concepts well long term; no class will change that. I found that in my classes, the teachers didn't particuarly pay more attention to boys or girls - they paid more attention to the goody two shoes kids who were good in class but evil at recess.

I also think I would feel extremely weird going to a completely all girls school and only being around girls for those long hours. As it is, I feel weird around people my own age cause since I've been homeschooled, I've been mostly around adults and young children.

 

Yeah, but it isn't weird if you've done that for five years

First week of Uni, I was surprised at how many boys there were

Kithera

 

TheBiggerFish, I just want to say that I am very proud that you had made the choice to be a housewife.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman wanting a career, however being a housewife has many many many rewards.

I grew up with a stay-at-home mom. She was a strong, loving woman who you couldn't help but respect.

Children, and mothers alike do not know what they are missing out on in familys where the mom works.

I understand that in many cases both parents have to work. However, no woman should ever be made fun of because she makes the choice to be a housewife.

I've been married for little over a year now. My wife is currently going to school to be a nurse. However, when we have children she wants to be a stay-at-home mom. Perhaps when the kids are older and in school she will go back to working as a nurse. Either way, I know in her heart that she puts her home and family before her career.

 

I'm a HouseDAD! Do I get props?

 

It's a much harder decision to make these days financially. Years ago it was the norm for women to stay at home. The father earned enough money on his own to support the whole family in comfort. Now, to retain the same standard of living, both parents need to work.

 

So I'm curious, TheBiggerFish, why are you at an all girls' private school?

Well, I went to co-ed schools until I was about 13, and found that after a while, the boys just got tiresome, the humor lewd, and the learning in class stunted because of their useless antics that flirty girls found funny. I came home one day crying, and my parents applied for a single-sex school. Which I love! The teachers are more open, the people a lot nicer and the learning flows a lot easier. I've never considered going back to a co-ed situation until University.

I wonder if I could handle that if I didn't interact with men until university?

I think my going to an all-girls school has made me more confident than I ever would have been had I stayed in a co-ed environment. The school I am at, at least, encourages opinions and debate, and I can honestly say I stand up much straighter now than I did when boys judged the way I looked in my uniform.

Personally (and nothing against females) I say do the co-ed. Girls can't expect to be placed in a room together in the real world. They must learn to work with the guys and perform just as well.

Again, I can only speak to myself, but I get enough experience with guys in 'the real world' to help me later on. But I am only speaking for me here, and I do agree with you on the need for social interaction.

Now, to retain the same standard of living, both parents need to work.

Not all the time. Me and my family are firmly ensconced in middle-class suburbia, and for all my life, my Father has been the only one who worked.

Don't you guys think we're getting a little off topic here, though?

 

I went to an all boys high school, and I think single sex schools are a good thing. (I graduated high school over 11 years ago).

You have the choice to send your kids to integrated schools if you wish, but I think the less the distration, the more potential for learning. Uniforms are a good thing, too. You have to wear uniforms in the real working world, and school is preparing you for that, is it not? It also instills discipline and removes the opportunity for harassment based upon clothing. Kids are in school to get an education, socialization can take place outside the classroom. Once you get to college, then you are old enough to make decisions for yourself (you're 18).

All the single sex high schools in this area way outperform the integrated ones (excluding magnet schools - which only take the best - of course they are going to do better). In the New Orleans metro area, I wouldn't send my dog to a public school - LOL (with the exception of the magnet schools).

When I have children, they are going to same sex private schools if I can manage it.

----

Much of the militant feminist movement has caused much damage to women over the past fifty years. I believe in equality of women (we are all human beings, right?), and I work in a profession full of them LOL (I'm a RN).

Being a mother is the most important responsibility a woman has (as is being a father for a man). Careers come second for both men and women in this aspect. Militant feminism has done much damage to the family institution over recent decades. Women should be able to work and choose the jobs they wish to do (other than being in combat - that is where I draw the line - i was in the military four years, and it just shouldnt be), but responsibility to the family comes first.

Heck, I'd even stay home with the kids when my g/f and I get married, but she wont let me (hehehe ). She's getting her Doctorate in Pharmacy. When she finishes we'll be getting married, and she'll make more than me. She says I still have to work. Darn.

 

(other than being in combat - that is where I draw the line - i was in the military four years, and it just shouldnt be).

Agreed. I'm also against men in the military. Equal rights for all.

 

I've read many of the studies where girls do better in single sex classrooms. But that's often compared to coed classrooms where the main criticism isn't of the quality of education or of the abilities of the students, but of the gender bias of the instructor. In many cases, it's been shown that the teacher, female or male, calls on boys more, etc... In math and science courses, the poor performance of the females compared to the males can often be linked back to the lower expectations of female abilities in these subject areas. It's a cycle. If the instructors think that "boys are smarter than girls" in some areas, you can create a classroom setting where it occurs.

I'm glad that the people here who went to single-sex schools found it to be a positive environment and attained a higher quality of education - but I wonder how much of that isn't due to the single gender setting, but to the private school setting? Me, personally, when I was the only female in a classroom full of guys at college, I was very happy that I had experience interacting with men as peers and could hold my own as a physicist. (Despite the best efforts of my high school physics teacher, who told me, "women don't go into physics," when I asked him for a letter of rec for my college apps.)

I actually think this topic is appropriate for masculism vs feminism - I found it interesting that those who think that feminism has gone too far also seem supportive of segregating the sexes at school.

And Rebecca191 made an excellent point: it is a perfectly acceptable goal to want to be a mother and housewife, but you should not make choices at a young age that will limit your options as you grow older. Perhaps that's part of the origin of the attitude that The BiggerFish was subjected to at school.

 

was subjected to? Try is subjected too, I'm still in school y'know.

I'm not going to limit myself, I'm going to get a degree in teaching ancient history at a high school level. If I have to work, I'd want to be a teacher because the hours and holidays would be the same as my kids.

If I need to work for financial reasons I will, but my number one priority will be my kids.

I found it interesting that those who think that feminism has gone too far also seem supportive of segregating the sexes at school.

All I know is that single sex school was right for me, whereas, had my sister gone to a single sex school, she would have withered away. Everyone is different, and the choice of co-ed or single sex school is an individual choice.

 

TheBiggerFish I'm a stay at home mom and its the most fullfilling and tiring thing I've ever done.

I congradulate anyone, male or female, or stays at home to take care of their children. If I made more money then my husband, he would be the one to stay home and we would have a much cleaner house I wish society would make it easier for one parent to stay at home.

 

Personally, I don't like physics and math but I think any sex can go into it. I go to a co-ed environment and it's nice and open for the most part.

Sexism agaisnt boys in education also exists. Teachers might think they're troublemakers so they rat on them more.

I borrowed the college issue(with Reese Witherspoon on the cover) of Seventeen and they tell you certain schools that have more boys than girls(Johns Hopkins and Carnegie Mellon are among them). If you're a gril, you do have more choices in case you happen to go on a date or two. I don't care about the gender ratio but you should have to chance to be in any education envrinment you want.

 

If Australia goes into Iraq we'll probably be putting women on the front line, said TV (or was it the papers? I can't remember)
If women join the military, why should they expect any thing else (unless they apply as a nurse or other vital non combatant thing)