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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series The Optimistic Appreciation Thread!

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by koonfan, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Judging by the spoilers in the Shadow Conspiracy thread, I'd say we have a lot to look forward to in the next three Maul episodes.
     
  2. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    I think Umbara and Young Jedi is somewhat apples to oranges. Both are somewhat character driven and both orbit around OCs which makes them very refreshing but one is basically a band of brothers war film that puts me on the edge of my seat and the other is a heart warming tale about little kids building their lightsabers that explores the mythos a big. Its like comparing Flags of Our Fathers and Tangled. Goes to show you how uniquely broad TCW is since we are talking about a single show.

    My beef with Young Jedi was as we went into the 3 and 4th part the arc moved away from the cool mythos exploring stuff and the final episode was just kinda like a bunch of neat stuff happened but didn't blow me away. When I watched the four parts together I got bored during the 4th part. I also felt it didn't use all the younglings very well, way to much focus on just two of them. Its really only Petrol, Katooni, and maybe Byph that did much that was memorable (Hondo ofcourse was).

    Umbara did a better job using its also large cast of characters. Rex, Jesse, Fives, Dogma, Kix, Tup, and Appo all did something memorable. Carnage left me feeling absolutely depressed the first time I watched it, I'll be honest with you. That was a hell of a climax and that episode still gets better every time I watch it.

    Its not a fair comparison for me to make at all.
     
  3. Orrelios

    Orrelios Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2005
    I'm trying to stay away from the spoilers so that I can be surprised, but judging from the trailer alone, the next half of the season is gonna be great.
     
  4. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    To me, the season started turning around with Void.
     
  5. Orrelios

    Orrelios Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2005
    I didn't say that 'Void' was bad, I was speaking of what the majority of TCW watchers thinks. The recent episode wasn't for everyone and since most watchers were disappointed with the last two episodes (and in some cases, the first part of the season as a whole), I think that's gonna change as we get into January.
     
  6. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    I'm speaking for me personally and no one else on The Void. I've needed that.
     
  7. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    [​IMG]

    "There is no liking The Void; only dislike."
    So says Sauron, but not me. It was good, IMO.
     
  8. LordMortis315

    LordMortis315 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  9. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 7, 2011
    I <3 The Void. Not talking about the void in my soul either.
     
  10. Watto

    Watto Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 1998
    The two Clone Wars roundtable/discussion podcasts I listen to, Forcecast and SWAN, were absolutely brutal on Sunny Day in the Void. I think SWAN was even more brutal than LACWAC has been. Not to sound like an apologist, but I just get the sense that the reviewers didn't get it or didn't get what GL was trying to say with that episode. That's probably a cliche to denounce any one who disliked the episode but I don't. A lot of LACWAC folks who disliked it at least had interesting things to say about it in their critique. At the very least we have to agree that there are some interesting concepts in the episode that are worthy of discussion, regardless of the execution. The SWAN folks were more content with just saying "man, that sucked."
     
  11. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2004
    It's easy to say that something sucked. It's harder to say why it sucked.
     
  12. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    That's just the way people are. Gadget geek/ tech nerd is my biggest hobby and I've always found when it comes to stuff like laptops or wireless routers or smartphones. People are far more likely to tell you about their worst experience with them than how awesome their device are.

    I haven't listened to the ForceCast in a while, I keep forgetting. I usually listen so I can be ready to talk about anything that comes up. Its my opinion that TCW tends to go over folks heads alot of times. I've felt that way about the Rako Hardeen arc. Now I recognize that I overthink things alot and have a high tolerance for campy things, to the point where I can get past that and still look for reason. I'm just sayin'. It may be watching the anime Casshern Sins helped me out alot with "Void" and that's one that I'd always heard bad things about until it came on the Toonami reboot (where it was also brutally hated on by fans) but I thought it was awesome. It dealt with alot of the same themes Void did.
     
  13. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    There is no shame in it at all. I love that so far we have ended a season on less painful moments than in S3 or S4.
    I mean there were no Corruptions or Shadow Warriors.


    To be frank the Force Cast are not a measuring for episode quality. They can be really biased and sometimes really ignorrant when it comes to episode opinions.

    I mean the arrogant Jimmy Mac was quick to call all who disliked Brothers as impatient or something like that aka to diss anybody who disagree with him liking a horrible episode like Brothers.

    And I am shocked to see that they would like Brothers but hate on the Void.
     
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  14. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2011
    "Brothers" wasn't a bad episode but I understand why there were people that didn't like it.

    But I can see "A Sunny Day in the Void" getting more fondly looked upon as time goes on.
     
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  15. AkashKedavra_93

    AkashKedavra_93 Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 8, 2011
    "Young Jedi" was brilliant for me, it had a nice blend of mythos and action. Plus Drunken Hondo - never disappoints.
     
  16. LordMortis315

    LordMortis315 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    How can I revive you, brother mine...?
    How can I expect you to survive...?
    Clinging to sanity, Mother came
    To give you your chance to live...

    Seerow ;)
     
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  17. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    lol... did you really just do that to such a beautiful FMA song? =b



    ;.;
     
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  18. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Brothers and A Sunny Day in the Void actually have a really important aspect in common, which is that they're both exploring new worlds. Obviously TCW has a lot of episodes that happen on new worlds, but there's usually a driving plot that makes the environment somewhat secondary. There aren't a lot of TCW episodes that mirror the feel of Tatooine being explored by R2-D2 and C-3PO in Ep. IV the way these two episodes do, which is even more exceptional when you consider how different the two episodes are. I think Brothers wipes the floor with A Sunny Day in the Void overall and in the exploring department, but I see a strong similarity there.
     
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  19. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Stuff happened in "Brothers" that mattered. "Void" not so much.
     
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  20. koonfan

    koonfan Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Ah! This thread still lives! :D

    Now, while it can be rightly argued that the strengths and weaknesses of the overall plots of Season 5 has remained (that is to say, sometimes really good, sometimes really bad, or sometimes meh), I have noticed, as a writer, a consistent element: much higher emphasis on characters.

    They don't always give enough attention (like with Adi Gallia and some villains, alas), and some of it is read as subtext (he said this, so it means that, he said that, so it means this!), but from the first episode to the latest, we've had a surprisingly clear showing of the characters being featured.

    The Maul-Savage dynamic, Hondo's multiple bizarre facets as a gentleman pirate (contempt and respect for Obi-Wan in the same episode [face_laugh]), and even the Jedi Youngling stars and the Onderon Resistance. They don't just rush through the motions like previous story arc characters. Instead, they seem to spend their episodes showing their reactions, their relations, and their strengths. They're not like overly complex, morally ambiguous characters, but many of them have clearly defined strengths, weaknesses and goals, as well as a progression of sorts for the newer ones in how they relate. You see it in how the Onderon Resistance leaders are comprised of a diplomat, a fighter, and a leader. You see it in how the Younglings each have a consistently present quirk. And you see it in how much time we spend focusing on Gascon as he deals with the droids and danger.

    They're not the sort of ruthless, amoral, ambiguous, 'grey' or neutral types of characters some people might have wanted, but I never really equated that with good writing. Those characters were good because we still cared for them despite it, and those parts only made their stories more nuanced. These guys may be clearly good or clearly bad, but I just love that we're seeing their characterisation get some proper attention for as long as they inhabit a story arc.

    So yes, by all means, discuss the merits and demerits. But I'm very pleased to see that this area is taking a leap forward, because I've always believed characters an audience can like and root for are a great element to have. In fact, it's one of those great elementsin some of the best loved Star Wars material. :)
     
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  21. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    It was pretty terrible. And has not gotten better with time.

    The Void episode is getting better with time...
     
  22. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Void had to get better with time because of how atrocious it is, Brothers was always awesome. :D
     
  23. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Its great to see you in here again koonfan! I will try harder to keep my old promise to you. I know I've fallen odd the optimist bandwagon a bit lately.

    I agree very much so with you on the great increase in character driven focus in TCW. I think its been really evident in the Droid Arc, Young Jedi, Onderon, and even Revival. However the success of a character driven arc is linked closely with how engaging these characters are. This is one area where Ondron really fell flat, IMO. We don't always need gray area type characters but making super generic characters like Saw, Steela, Rash, and Dendup could benefit from a little more personality rather than focusing on Saw being a strong fighter while Lux has the better diplomatic skills.

    This worked better with the 'quirky' Young Jedi where the characters were still each a trope but a little more layered, particularly Petro and Katooni who were the ones put up on pillar and then ofcourse the tsunami of personality that is Hondo.

    I really liked the character work in Void. Its ambitious. I liked the focus on Gascon loosing his sanity as the fear of death just overwhelmed him. The hopeless despair that left in laying in the sand trying desperately to get some comfort out of WAC who he previously found completely obnoxious and really didn't sympathize with him at all. WAC has alot of personality and even gives the impression of having a heart but in the end its all just programmed loyalty.
     
    koonfan likes this.
  24. Watto

    Watto Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 1998
    I like your observation koonfan. This is what they've figured out in 4.5 seasons, TV should be about characters. Endless plots with thin characters would get really boring, i.e. the constant battle episodes with random Jedi that some on this forum are demanding. The way to make this more interesting is to focus on the characters they've been working on and build episodes around them to flesh them out and make us care.

    This will work to give us better more emotional stories for the original characters that also reinforces the overall Star Wars story, and then also strengthen specific Episode 3 stories by adding depth to existing characters like Anakin and the Clones. The nice thing with the Clones is we have a mix of original and existing guys to make things more interesting.
     
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  25. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    TV should be about engaging characters and fun plots. I like it when I watch something that gives me feels. I agree it would be boring as hell if TCW were always clones vs battledroids all the time. I'm glad to see TCW step back and broaden the viewers perspectives to the other things going on during the war and that set the stage for the things that happen in the OT. I'll be frank you guys, its a myth that I'd never seen the movies before but they were always just good movies to me until I found TCW. I enjoy it when TCW shows takes the wool from my eyes and really shows me the mythos. I always get into stuff on more of a mythos level than anything else.

    I agree its better when TCW focuses on original characters and fleshes them. The friendly fire scene in Umbara hits me far harder than anything TCW has done before or sense, in part because its terrible, in part because I'm emotionally invested in the characters involved. Invested enough to be as concerned about their mental health as the possiblity of their deaths. Its hard to further explore characters like Anakin, Obi-wan, and Padme whose characters are alread handled in the PT and the many background Jedi only add color, they don't do much add suspense or anything like that.