The Other

Was just looking through some old issues of Bantha Tracks the other day for vintage tidbits on the prequel & sequel trilogies & came across something that made me take a fresh look at a controversial issue. There's a report from some fans visiting the set of ROTJ, & at one point they see Mark Hamill's stand-in, wearing Luke's black Jedi outfit. Their first reaction is "It's the other!", then they realise it's just Mark's stand-in, & the report continues along.

These fans, of course, were not aware that there was to be the revelation that Leia was Luke's sister, & the 'other' that Yoda mentions. For them, at this time, the 'other' was a character they were speculating about, a new one who would perhaps be revealed in the new film. Seeing another actor in a Jedi outfit caused them to immediately assume this was, in fact, this person.

This is a perspective I've never been able to adopt - when I saw first ESB I was only five years old, & the oldest I would have been seeing it again before ROTJ was seven, I think. Yoda's mention that "there is another" went completely over my head, & I don't ever recall wondering who it was. As a result, 'discovering' that it was Leia was not a letdown or a revelation, & for years I simply assumed that it was always the case, as GL maintains.

However, reading the Bantha Tracks issue reminded me that for three years this character was a complete mystery to SW fans, & as we've been discussing on this & other threads, wasn't actually meant to be Princess Leia. It was someone else entirely, & did exist as an idea.

I don't buy GL's claim that the line was a cheap trick to increase the perception of the danger Luke was in & that he didn't know who it was, the line is far too specific, & as zombie has pointed out, in earlier drafts is delivered as "now we must find another", which would have worked just as well, but no, the final version is "There is another."

Zombie's theory in TSHOSW is that the character was most likely to be the protagonist of the sequel trilogy. This does make sense, but one thing doesn't sit quite right with me, & that's the fact that the sequel was to have taken place about 20 years after ROTJ, so this 'other' would have been an infant at the time of ROTJ, not to mention that another 20 years would have been a bit too long a wait for Yoda & Obi-Wan while Vader & Palpatine tightened their stranglehold on the galaxy. Plus, the sequel trilogy was to have dealt with the rebuilding of the Republic, so presumably the Empire had already been defeated.

Is it possible that there was another character who was to have appeared in ROTJ who was the other hope for the galaxy? Were Gary Kurtz's recollections a bit more accurate than zombie gives him credit for - was Luke's sister hiding out somewhere on the other side of the galaxy? Was Boba Fett actually meant to be the other, as many speculated at the time?

Thoughts?

 

In one of the many interviews with GL I seem to remember him saying "The Other" was Luke's sister and the sequel Triology was going to be about Luke looking for her. IIRC

 

That has been consistently confirmed on the DVDs, in interviews, and other commentaries. Leia wasn't originally intended as the sister (which hopefully explains all of the allusions to incest.) GL envisioned a sequel trilogy that would focus on Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order and searching across the galaxy for his lost sister. By the time they got to ROTJ, Lucas decided to wrap things up neatly and make Leia the sister. My take is he was attempting to recreate the shock of the Vader revelations in TESB.

 

Yes. He was also looking for a moment that would make Luke go dark side on Vader in the final duel and that's another reason.

 

Actually, that came to him later. Lucas wanted a reason for Luke to get really mad at Vader, then he realized that since he already made Leia his sister that he should use that to make the most sense. It wasn't a reason TO make Leia his sister.

 

"The Other" never really worked like it was supposed to, I don't think. I don't remember anyone actually worrying that Luke was going to die or go bad or be replaced. A lesser concern compared to Han's predicament and Vader's revelation, at least that's how I remember things. It might have been insurance against Mark Hamill getting antsy to quit like Ford did.

 

No that couldn't have been it. Unlike Harrison, both Mark and Carrie were under contractual obligation for all three films. Ford was the only one who did not initially sign on for all three. I think "the other" remark in TESB is just meant to add suspense and mystery. The intent is to tell the audience that they might have been through the Jedi training along with Luke--but there are still things that haven't been revealed yet. Luke isn't being told everything.

 

The thing about Kurtz is that he isn't remembering the "Other" from the final film--he is remembering the Sister Jedi character from draft one, who was written out of the story in draft two. This was when Darth Vader was not Luke's father, the series was not a trilogy but would continue indefinitely, and in a sequel--probably NOT VII, VIII or IX, because ESB was Episode II at the time, likely it would have been Episode III or IV--she would be join the story (one can imagine the two Skywalker Jedi avenging their father together).

I say that it is unlikely that the Other would have been a main character and/or a full-grown Jedi in ROTJ for the very simple reason that George Lucas knew that Episode VI was the end of the trilogy. Even though he planned on doing the Sequel Trilogy, he still revealed, as early as 1979, that Revenge of the Jedi, as it was called, would kill off Vader, end the Rebels versus Empire conflict and resolve all the story points and characters that had been introduced thusfar. Therefore, it makes no sense that, given these paramaters that he had already decided on, in addition to all the plot points he had for ROTJ, that he would additionally decide on introducing yet another character. Especially when Lucas was wanting ROTJ to be about Luke's maturation into a Jedi--having another random Jedi with him sort of nullifies this by giving him a tag-along, without proper time to introduce and justify the character. The Sister Jedi was supposed to join Luke, but she the series was going to be longer than three films at the time and there was justification in that she and Luke, brother and sister, would battle the Empire/Vader and avenge their father (who was not Vader).

It makes more sense that the Other was to be a character intended primarily for the Sequel Trilogy. This does not preclude inclusion in ROTJ, of course--you can perhaps introduce the character, or introduce the idea that this character exists. But if it is a full-grown adult, then he would be past middle age by the time of the next trilogy. It's also quite obvious that in the sequels Luke would continue the Jedi way and have some sort of pupil--in fact, Lucas himself hints at this. Therefore, it seems unlikely that his apprentice would be an old man of the same age (60s) or slightly younger (i.e. 40s). It would be natural to follow suit with what came before--an older teacher (about 60) training a young man who is in his 20s. This would of course work out perfectly if the "Other" was some kind of special child that was hidden across the galaxy at the time of the OT, that Yoda, and not Ben, knew about. Perhaps the son or daughter of a lineage of a Jedi that escaped the great purge, or perhaps something else that heralds his/her birth as "special" (an omen brought through the Force--you know you can make up a million things here).

The last part--being able to make up a million things when you need it--is key, though. I do not believe that Lucas himself had any concrete idea of who this character is. There really is no answer to the question of who is the other, aside from general stuff like this. Lucas had decided on a sequel trilogy, probably thought that since Luke will have an apprentice in it (my assumption here) then it would be nice to introduce or foreshadow this person in the next film so all of a sudden Luke hasn't suddenly found some long-lost Jedi-Child in film seven. I mean, I admit it would come across as a pretty big coincidence. But he didn't know who or what this character was. So he left his options open--Yoda says a cryptic line, that serves the broad conception Lucas has, and then it can made into whatever he needs it to be in any future films. But by the time Lucas got to making Return of the Jedi, he no longer wanted to make the sequel trilogy, so when Luke comes back to Yoda, instead of saying "go to planet X, there you will find the future--pass on what you have learned..." or something like that, he says it is Leia is his sister (well, Obi Wan does--no wait, Luke says he has known already. Somehow. Cough.).

 

Right I know, I was just thinking of the vague post-Return of the Jedi future. (either for 7-9 or on television or whatever)

 

I'm not completely convinced that the Other couldn't have been Luke's sister from the first draft, & that Kurtz might have been correct in his statements that Episode VII (or VIII?) was to involve Luke finding her on the other side of the galaxy, or at least might have.

This is where things become very muddy & vague, because it's quite possible that several storylines could exist at the same time, or at least overlap a bit - just because GL has taken a different, even contradictory, tack, e.g. three trilogy, 9 film saga, doesn't mean that what came before - 12 film, non-chronological serial, is immediately obliterated. Development & ideas could still continue at least for a while, hence the confusion. It's quite possible, just to bring up zombie's favourite issue, that the idea that Vader was Luke's father existed in the mind of GL at the same time as he was writing the first draft of ESB, where Luke's father is a separate character. While he was pursuing the earlier storyline, he could also have been toying with the idea of a new one, but chose to at least take the early version to its conclusion & see where it left him. There's no evidence of this, but nor is there evidence against.

A story in its developmental stages is not something that can be pinned down & dated, at least not entirely, & these characters - Father Vader, Father Skywalker, Sister Skywalker, the Other - don't have birthdates the same way real people do, & even though the final film can't contradict itself if it wishes to remain credible, contradictions can exist while it's being developed. Sister Skywalker, Sister Leia & the different (probably male) Other could have existed at the same time as each other, just as Father Vader & Father Skywaker could have.

I think zombie's quite correct in saying that the GL was not entirely aware of who this Other character was at the time, in much the same way you might say he wasn't entirely aware of exactly who Darth Vader was at the time of ANH, but it's possible that it was an existing character (not Leia) or one to be revealed in ROTJ, rather than just a one line mystery.

At the specific time that the the line 'there is another' was written & included in ESB, Eps VII-IX mightn't have necessarily been set 20 years later, or perhaps GL didn't think the continuity through & made a mistake, as he's done many times before with various other isssues.

 

From the Annotated Screenplays, for what it's worth:

...In [the first draft], there's no hint that there may be another hope if Luke fails. In the revised second draft, a few lines of dialogue were added as Luke's X-wing disappears in the sky: Yoda says: "Now we must find another." Ben replies: "He is our only hope." And in the third draft, after Luke takes off, Ben says: "The boy is our last hope." Yoda replies: "No...we must search for another." - Irvin Kershner: The Annotated Screenplays

My feeling about Luke being the last hope was really done in an effort to make sure that he was in some jeopardy, that he might not succeed. I was trying to set up subliminally in the audience's mind that something is going on here, that he could fail. And if he fails, 'there is another hope'. So the audience is saying 'Don't go, finish your training. - George Lucas: The Annotated Screenplays

 

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The Other was obviously Han. See how well he wielded that sabre?

 

Ya'll should check out a movie from the 1950's titled "Scaramouche". It CLEARLY heavily inspired ESB. Scaramouche contains a series of father/son, brother/sister revealations. After viewing it your perceptions on what Lucas had planned and what he made up as he went along may change.

 

Doesn't Queen use that word in Bohemian Rhapsody?

 

Gary Kurtz has said in more than one interview that at the time the empire strikes back was filmed that liea was not Luke's sister and that george only decided to do that in the development stages of return of the jedi.

 

However, one should also take into consideration that - when discussing 'influences' - Lucas was never 'shy' about bringing up Kurosawa/Hidden Fortress. Thus, why would he be so about "Scaramouche"???

 

Yeah, it's not like films in the 50's had a monopoly on such "revelations". Ever heard of Oedipus?

 

"Scaramouche"

Doesn't Queen use that word in Bohemian Rhapsody?

I guess this also explains Fandango Fett



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

Just b/c he hasn't mentioned it, doesn't mean he is intentionally hiding it. Don't be so cynical. Have you seen the movie? If not, get back to me after you have. It's a wonderful film in its own right.

 

Not aimed at you, but you'd be surprised how many SW fans use this very reasoning as proof for their pet theories...

 

I saw ESB in 1980 and "the other" was quite tantalising - until Leia picked up on Luke's telepathic distress call twenty minutes later. Then it was blindingly obvious who "the other" was. Having said that, there was speculation leading up to ROTJ as to whether this was a red herring and that "the other" could have been someone else we knew or hadn't met yet.

 

That's Luke flexing his power to contact Leia,not Leia picking up on it or a pyschic connection between the 2,it was simpley how powerful Luke was becoming.

The other wasn't one of Luke's friends in pain who was indanger of being killed.Yoda told luke to let Han and Leia die so he could complete his training and Obi doesn't even know there is another.When Luke goes and rescues Leia,Yoda thinks there all going to die but still says there is another.

 

A+