The Over-Rated Players Thread

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by DarthPoppy, Nov 29, 2006.

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  1. JediANGELA Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 28, 2002
    star 6


    Fixed
  2. KastGotWhacked Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2006
    No it's still wrong. Accept for Tom Brady.







    ~Liar, lawyer, Mirror for ya, What's the difference? Kangaroo be stoned, He's guilty as the government~
  3. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'm so glad Warner got exposed as the fraud he was before he started garnering HOF talk.


    actually, to this point in his career, his numbers are virtually identical to dan marino's at the same point in his career.

    during his koufax-like run (though even shorter), he was one of the most prolific and accurate passers in NFL history.
  4. imperial_dork Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2003
    star 6
    I'd still like to know how Steve Young can be considered overrated? :p

    2-time league MVP
    Super Bowl MVP (six TDs)
    Second highest QB rating in a season
    Highest career QB rating (more than 1,500 attempts)
    Only QB in history to have a rating above 100 for four straight seasons
    Most career rushing TDs by a QB
    Second in career rushing yards by a QB

    And considering how long he was a backup to Montana, still put up some impressive numbers over his career.
  5. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6

    Yeah, but he had a TON of help. A lot of QBs would look great in that offense, with Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce. I remember in '99 he threw for what, almost 4400 yards, but some ridiculous percentage of those yards were yards after the catch. His recievers (and Faulk) have a lot to do with the numbers he put up.

  6. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    Regarding Steve Young, here is my point:
    1) He was a great quarterback (no question about that), that doesn't mean he wasn't over-rated.
    2) "Quarterback rating" is a meaningless statistic, as its composition has been changed many times, so it is useless as a gauge of ability over time.
    3) Young inherited the best team in the NFL, in fact, he had better receivers than Joe Montana (Rice was just getting going at the end of Montana's tenure with the 49ers--he did his magic with Dwight Clarke, hardly one of the most impressive wide outs of all time)
    4) Young was fun to watch with all his scrambling, etc., but was also known to throw some stupid interceptions, compare his ints with Montana's.
    5) He was largely hyped up to cover for Eddie DeBartolo's terrible and disrespectful treatment of Joe Montana, possibly the greatest quarterback of all time, or at least modern, forward pass dominated times.
    So, my point is that Steve Young was a terrific qb, but still vastly over-rated, not a Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts or even a Brett Farve or Peyton Manning. Over-rated doesn't mean bad, it just means over-rated, and this fits Steve Young to a tee.
  7. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    1) He was a great quarterback (no question about that), that doesn't mean he wasn't over-rated.

    He's actually underrated, only people who actually know something about football bring him up when discussing the top ten of all time.

    2) "Quarterback rating" is a meaningless statistic, as its composition has been changed many times, so it is useless as a gauge of ability over time.

    the current passer rating formula has been around since 1973 :)

    3) Young inherited the best team in the NFL, in fact, he had better receivers than Joe Montana (Rice was just getting going at the end of Montana's tenure with the 49ers--he did his magic with Dwight Clarke, hardly one of the most impressive wide outs of all time)

    So then Peyton Manning must not be any good, he's got Marvin Harrison. Carson Palmer would probably suck if he didn't have Chad Johnson to throw to. Drew Brees probably isn't any good, he's just lucky enough to have a rookie sensation.

    weak argument.

    4) Young was fun to watch with all his scrambling, etc., but was also known to throw some stupid interceptions, compare his ints with Montana's.

    Montana's career interception percentage is 2.6%, Steve Young's is 2.7%... that's such a HUGE difference. But let's not forget that Young has a TD/INT ratio of more than 2 to 1, Montana doesn't. :)

    5) He was largely hyped up to cover for Eddie DeBartolo's terrible and disrespectful treatment of Joe Montana, possibly the greatest quarterback of all time, or at least modern, forward pass dominated times.

    that's nice. Let's just toss out the fact that Young threw 6 TD's in a superbowl, that he had one more 30+ TD season than Montana, that he only had one less 20+ TD season than Montana despite having to come off the bench for him for four years. Let's forget that he had a higher career completion percentage, a higher yards per attempt, and a higher TD percentage than Montana.

    I'm not saying Young's better than Montana, just saying he's definitely a top ten QB, and arguably a top five as well.

    So, my point is that Steve Young was a terrific qb, but still vastly over-rated, not a Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts or even a Brett Farve or Peyton Manning. Over-rated doesn't mean bad, it just means over-rated, and this fits Steve Young to a tee.

    you lose.
  8. DarthIntegral Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Did ... did you really just put Peyton Manning and Bret Favre ahead of Steve Young?
  9. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    and Dan Fouts too... I mean he was a good qb... I just don't get the hype around him... 254 TD's and 242 INTs... He had 5 20+ INT seasons... worse then Favre in that department.
  10. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    As I am sure we all agree, there is far more to greatness in football than good numbers. It matters when you complete the long pass or when you throw the inevitable interception. Dan Fouts was really one of the best there ever was, unfortunately he, like Dan Marino never played for a decent team. Some numbers I find really missleading, the biggest example being TD passes. While this is always a good thing, teams and quarterbacks with strong runningbacks and fullbacks will always have less of them, as they aren't throwing on 1st and Goal from inside the 5. It is true that the NFL has really become a "quarterback's league", but the QB still works with the team he has. The fact the Joe Montana had Roger Craig is part of the reason he had fewer TD passes than Steve Young, for example.
  11. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Ron Artest. Do I need to go into it more?
  12. NorCalBirdz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2004
    star 4
    Ron Artest is in no way overrated. He has made stupid mistakes and his career and he knows that, but all of his on-the-court accolades are well deserved. The Kings were dead in the water before he got here. He turned them around with his attitude, defensive prowess, and toughness.
  13. CJS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2006
    star 2
    Let's not forget that Ricky "Running" Waters was no slouch in the backfield for Steve Young either.
  14. Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2003
    star 7
    Kurt Warner didn't seem to have any problem tossing TD's with Marshall Faulk as his RB... neither did Peyton with Edge.
  15. DAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2004
    star 4
    Besides ending the Packers dominance at Lambeau in cold weather and playoff games what has Michael Vick done.
  16. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5


    Tell me you're joking. Please. Quinn has practically perfected the New England Patriots offense in two years at Notre Dame with Charlie Weis. He's obviously a very smart kid who has the physical capabilities to suceed in the NFL. The only times Quinn has looked poor is when his offensive line caves in and lets the mad rush begin. This year it was the Michigan and USC games. If Quinn gets on a team with a decent offensive line, he'll put up some impressive numbers his first year.

    NFL scouts are all over him because of his physical AND mental prowess, we know Ryan Leaf wasn't running a pro-style offense at Washington State and neither were the recent busts at QB over the past few years.


    As for my most overrated player? I'd probably go with Dennis Rodman, who wasn't doing anything that Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russel didn't do and he was a complete offensive liability. Yet seemingly hailed as the greatest rebounder of all time:rolleyes:


    Oh, and no way is Steve Young overrated. I actually think he's underrated myself. People don't talk about him nearly as much as they should. He actually did the impossible by continuing Joe Montana's success at SF in the 90s.
  17. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    Russel wasn't exactly brilliant on offense either. Also, Wilt was 7'2ish, Russel 6'10 (with freakish leaping ability and long arms).

    Rodman was 6'6''. He played below the rim, and was still one of the greatest rebounders ever.
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