PT Padmé Amidala MEGAthread - Don't look at her that way. It makes her uncomfortable

Hmm, I've never though about it this way, but what if Anakin's survival was dependent on Padme's death? To keep himself alive he somehow leeches off of Padme's life energy subconsciously, or as a Dark Side technique. The Sith value their survival, and it would be a bitter irony if Anakin killed the one thing he wanted to stay alive for, just to stay alive.

 

It is hard I am glad I bought and received PT stuff back then. I am not sure about clothes but I did find a Darth Maul lunchbox and PT stickers in a store called Five Below. That was only a few months ago. I bought the stickers. If you type the names Padme ect on Google sites will show up where you can buy PT shirts.

I always thought one of the things keeping Anakin alive was Padme. That was the first thing he asked. He didn't even bring up how his voice sounded different. When he found out she died then what was left of Anakin died. The dark side could have also kept him alive. It is a shame Padme just gave up. The theory that they stole her life force is better then the broken heart. Sadly so far all we have is that she gave up.

In the first dream Anakin had Padme was crying and screaming but she called for him for help and Obi-Wan was not there. I always wondered what was happening with Padme the first time. Had he turned the Dark side and she didn't know? Was he away on a mission? I liked Padme but I felt in ROTS she was more of a plot point then a character. George cut some of her better stuff in Sith.

 

No, no. Maybe my last post wasn‘t clear enough. I actually hate such forced theories (I‘m sorry to say it, but I think that they are indeed forced) because they are trying to offer a pragmatic explanation to a mystically poetical events and respectively slaughter the poetical (in this case poetically tragic) aspects of the movie. Is not that what happened to Padme is absolutely fantastic and impossible (see previous pages of the thread, we discussed this several times in another thread also), but the tragically poetical part comes from the context. Anyway, what I meant in my previous post is much simpler: there is a popular whine how Padme‘s death is unrealistic/unexplucable/bad writing/weak and so on and so on. And not a word how Anakin unexplicably survived from the lava as this is some obvious, natural event (even in-universe). It is not (check the deleted scenes from Ep.6 between Luke and Obi Wan, for example). I know why he survived but this is the miraclous event indeed (not Padme‘s death).

Of course, the movie is juxtaposing both events: Padme‘s childbirth and death and respectively Anakin‘s death/Vader final transformation, i.e. birth, but is doing this in a more transcedental, symbolic level.

 

Anakin is presented as the Chosen One, hopped up on the highest concentration of midi's ever seen, and powered by the might of the Dark Side. There's plenty of built in explanation as to how he survived long enough to be stuck in a life support suit. Force users, particularly dark siders, have a plethora of tools at their disposal that your average person doesn't. Hence Palpatine talking of cheating death, and being able to take lighting straight to the face and bounce right back up.

Padme's death of a "broken heart" is just stupid. It doesn't tie into anything we've previously learned about her nature or constitution. It's about as dumb as Leia dying of a broken heart because Han got frozen in carbonite.

Having gone back to the scene however, ignoring any GL insight and going just by the film, I am finding a way to embrace the mystery of her death. As long as there's room to play with, I can finally, finally reconcile this and fully enjoy a film I otherwise very much love. For me the mystery is not the problem. The "broken heart" crap is.

 

They could have had Luke and Leia born in Episode III,have Padme interact with them, then have her killed by Anakin or another villain. It never said that Vader didn't know he had children in the OT films, and he wouldn't have to know that they were born.

 

i too thought her "dying of grief" was kind of a cop-out. i think that symbolically it was meant to show that all of this killed her. but the film didn't want to be more down-to-earth with that and let us know that anakin/vader killed her. basically, i take it that he did kill her. that's what seals this tragedy after all. he destroyed the object of his love/obsession-turned-to-possession/obsession with his obsession and need to control and possess. the very thing he was trying to "save" is what he destroyed.

still that he threatened her with death if she wouldn't be what he wanted/needed is clear. he deprived her of oxygen. he threatens her life in doing so. if you take real life as an example, this kind of behavior would only escalate. for instance, what if it was "just a warning this time"? that he would do that as a warning, means later he'll finish it. he will kill her if she can't be what he wants. it's only a matter of time.

 

I get why George did it the way he did. He wanted to use the threat of Padme's death as the catalyst to change Anakin into Darth Vader. And without her death Anakin wouldn't have likely made the final turn, and he'd never have stopped looking for her.

It could've been interesting if Anakin turned before Padme even got the chance to tell him about the babies, and in her horror at his actions, she doesn't. Gives birth, spends a little time with the twins, and confronts Anakin and is killed somehow during the confrontation.

But it would change the entire structure of at least ROTS, if not AOTC, and from all accounts Lucas got exactly the structure he wanted.

 

Yeah I get Lucas motives for this, to give Anakin a big reason to turn and not just "seduced by the dark side".

To me it mostly works but I have two issues.
The first is that events in RotS causes a bit of contradiction with RotJ. Where Leia clearly can remember her mother but Luke can not. Implying that she lived with her for a few years but Luke did not.
And looking at the RotJ script, this was exactly the case.

The second is the nature of Padme's death.
To me is seemed that she gave up, that she quit, that she couldn't live anymore.
I think that if Anakin had hurt her some on Mustafar and the wounds plus giving birth caused her to die. The end result is the same, Anakin causes her death but more directly.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Frankly one of the most underrated close ups in the saga. Even more than her upcoming final scene with Anakin, this shot truly communicates how Padme is unsure of who her husband is anymore.

 

Every shot of Padme in the trilogy is a marvel, and they belong in cinematography museums. This one is very gripping in its tone and lighting. Portman's acting great not only in this scene, but she runs such a wide range throughout RotS.

This shot speaks 10,000 words. For those who grew up with the OT, this is the shot where we see what it must've been like for Luke & Leia's mom to be married to Vader. What I love about the context is she is trying to put together in her head what to say and how to say it. It's like she needs just a little more to gather herself and process what Obi-Wan told her in contrast to the Anakin she knows. But seconds after this she then sees Anakin running towards her and she's like, oh crap, here he comes, here goes, whether I'm ready or not.

 

That's the thing, though. She didn't choose to give up on life. Her heart literally broke from sadness, and there was nothing she could do about it even if she wanted to. It was an affliction. You could compare it to clinical depression if you want. Depressed people can't just choose not to be depressed; they have an illness.

 

I wasn‘t talking about the suit. I was talking about the fact he was alive before the suit, that was the miracle, even in world. Otherwise I agree with you about the point of view. Still for me, without the poetry (in PT with tragic scent) SW would be simply kind of quasi sci fi movies.

 

Sure they do, but the problem is, that it's a giant leap from having a broken heart, to dying from it while being completely healthy. Even in-universe it's not common to just die from unhappiness or depression as you put it, as the medical droid does not seem to be aware of any other cases. IMO it's too over the top, and while some refer to it as poetry, to me it borders on melodrama, punctuated by Vader's howl in the next scene. It's not enough, that she has a broken heart, and live out her days in sadness, she has to inexplicably die from it. I don't like it, because for me it turns Padme Amidala into a cliche.

 

i think that padme's death is supposed to somehow be mystical and something that medical explanations couldn't have answered... her spirit dies. i mean they did make a point of that in that the droid could find nothing wrong (after it healed her as i really bet that neck injury was bad).

it actually reminds me of elderly couples, where after one dies, the other does shortly after. i don't think the surviving partner decided to die or consciously gave up... but that there's an incredibly tight bond between two people, as though two have become one... and so if one passes, the other does too.

given that the force is involved i can buy that anakin and padme are linked in it and it's a powerful link (mainly because anakin is so powerful). their life forces became too intertwined and breaking the bond was catastrophic to both. anakin however could survive the break (just not as he was before). his force powers enable him to survive quite a lot of things.

given that i do view their relationship as co-dependent and sticky... i dunno, i think this explanation can work.

 

The medical droid literally says, she's lost the will to live. While some may deem this romantic, I think it is disparaging to women. Padme who's been a Queen, and is now a senator, a woman who served in government for her entire life, who has shown herself to be a person of principle, and seeks justice for all, has been reduced to a weeping house wife, who literally only lives for her man. She dies giving birth to twins, at the time when the galaxy needs people like her the most, because she can't live without a man who didn't deserve her love in the first place. A man who ends up abusing her.

 

couldn't you say that anakin only lives for his woman? "i can't live without her." and it turns out he can't because her death seals the "coffin" on anakin skywalker. what he is after, is a creature of death.

their relationship was never what most would call "healthy" imo. each of them became extremely attached to the other.

i guess one issue is that AOTC ends with the marriage and ROTS jumps ahead, and over the course of that time padme became increasingly attached to anakin, perhaps in response to his extreme attachment to her. but we don't see any of that since it's between movies. which is really quite annoying actually.

i mean, i do think he overpowered her in the relationship and then basically killed her. but the movies backed off of showing that because it's really dark and twisted. and by copping out of showing how disturbing the relationship ended up being, it instead is inexplicable.

being intertwined with someone who is becoming a sith really can't be healthy. i guess though i'm thinking of padme as a victim in this. but wasn't she?

 

The whole conclusion of Padme's story implies that although believes Anakin is still good and she has the will to give birth to his children, she does not have the will to raise them. She does not see the value in Luke and Leia receiving a somewhat more conventional upbringing. Like the one that might have benefitted Anakin.

 

that implies she's thinking of all of this consciously. i don't really think padme consciously knew she was dying. i think that the "heartbreak" of it all was such a spiritual shock that it killed her. but like i said, i think that the main problem is the story copped out by making it this inexplicable.

 

The droid states that Padme is losing the will to live. That means losing the will to raise her children.

I don't know how someone subconsciously loses the will to live. The thought of raising her children ought of have given her the will to live, consciously or otherwise.

 

Anakin: You died in childbirth.
Padme: And the baby? (Padme seems more worried about her child) than her own welfare.

Anakin prophesied it. In his dream, he sees Padme with Obi Wan. That would mean in his nightmare Padme seems to trust Obi Wan.

Thus in the end of her life, she gives up....lo and behold with Obi Wan with her after the children's birth.

Sidious meanwhile, lies to Anakin that he killed his own wife. Anakin's thoughts betray him.

Star Wars. Fantasy like no other.

MJ

 

Hmm...It's definitely a good point. Days of ye old has had much of these tropes spread throughout their culture during these times.

However, Padme is fairly consistent, all the way up until her death. It's just the lack of her screen time that pulls people out of the narrative is what I find(which makes sense). Padme has become more passive and less affirmative because of her political role. She's no longer a queen or a senator(I think I got this wrong but she was toned down to something of a political role in III). So it's understandable why she isn't in the forefront or get things started like she was in I and II.

Though, it's true that Lucas used a somewhat common and stereotypical trope in many books from the past. But even then, she's at a more vulnerable point in life. Pregnant, emotionally staggered and having to worry much of the political stature at that point. I think it's fine for her to be more sensitive and flawed. It works from building up in TPM.

I get it though. It might seem a bit sexist from your POV that Lucas would use such a trope and I can't change your mind about it. I will say that ROTS never reduced Padme as a doormat character just because of how she died. Old trope sure, but it fits the Orwellian/Freudian tone of the movie. A fallen knight and his Maiden who suffers from his actions.

 

We've gone over this so many, many times about the droid talking about will to live.

Set that aside for now but this idea of it being disparaging is bizarre in the extreme to me.

Her disappearing to off-screen and never being heard from again would be the real disparagment.

Her fate in this view is the same but one is in the movies and the other isn't.

Besides that as talked about so many times Star Wars is poetry not prose. What is it that take away her "will to live" is then no other then the entire destruction of freedom and liberty in the galaxy, the fall of the Republic, Jedi and the will of the people of the universe of which she has a large part to play.

There isn't a stronger female represented in the movies yet and I doubt there will be for a long time.