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Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Souderwan, Oct 1, 2005.

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  1. Drabba_the_Hutt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    Do you mean combining characters in a fanfilm with those of another (non-SW) property? Whether it counts as a SW crossover would depend on the fanfilm, then; if a prose adaptation of the fanfilm would count as a SW fanfic -- the average OC Jedi short or even Troops -- then yes, a crossover involving those characters would count as a SW crossover. If you mean something like Hardware Wars, which is a complete parody of SW, then no (unless you're crossing HW with SW, of course :p ).
  2. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2006
    star 5
  3. JadeSolo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 6
    2. Insufficient Research
    Sometimes the littlest detail can ruin an otherwise great fic. It?s true for every type, but for crossovers, you?ve got two franchises to do research for. It can get confusing sometimes, figuring out who can go where.


    This is the point that terrifies me the most about crossovers. The only other fandom that I know as well as I know SW is the X-Files. And even then, all the tiniest little details of both fandoms, keeping track of such things - egads! :p

    I absolutely agree about throwing a wink to readers. In one XF/SW crossover I read, Scully pointed a gun at Luke, and Han's response was, "What is it with redheaded women always wanting to kill you?" [face_laugh]

    Oh, and diane - if you write that Colbert interview with Vader, I want to read it!! :D
  4. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    RX_Sitj-Brilliant! I read it, and I recommend everyone else to read it.

    JadeSolo-Heh, that's awesome! Perfect Han-line, too.

    And if that interview ever does go up, I'd like to read it as well.
  5. DarthIshtar Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 9
    Where is the exercise listed?
  6. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Previous page. To reiterate...

    Now for a simple exercise. Write? a conversation between a SW character and anyone else from fiction. And I mean anyone. Please make sure to inform us who it is, too. One catch, though. No fighting.

    Sounds simple, doesn?t it? Hehe...
  7. dianethx Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2002
    star 6
    Much as I think a Colbert/ Vader interview would be hilarious, I realized after I posted the idea that it might violate the rules about using real people in stories. Whether the Colbert on the Colbert Report is anything like the real Colbert is a discussion for another thread... [face_laugh] LOL.

    But at least now I understand better what a crossover is.
  8. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    Hmm. Too bad, diane. Would've been awesome, though.

    I'm gonna repost an old convo I wrote between obi-Wan Kenobi and James Kirk here, sorta my own entry for this.

    *****

    He was dead. Of that much, he was certain.

    James T. Kirk held up his hands, or at least the spiritual equivalent. They were translucent, and had an odd blue tinge to them. He felt, in a paradoxical way, more alive than he ever had before.

    He looked up just in time to see that Starfleet captain from the future. "Jean-Luc!" He yelled. "I'm not dead." He paused. "I can't be dead. I was supposed to die alone."

    Just ahead, Jean-Luc Picard, captain of the late starship Enterprise, pulled a corpse out of a twisted metal framework. Kirk walked up to him and peered over his shoulder. No emotion was visible on his face as he stared into his own lifeless eyes.

    Jean-Luc closed his eyes and made the sign of the cross. Merde. I'm sorry, Jim. I should have been able to defeat Soran and? A tear ran down his cheek as he gathered up Jim's body. "I will see you get a proper burial. It's the least I can do." Jean-Luc began walking straight towards Jim, who was only mildly surprised when the captain passed right through him.

    Jim shivered at the experience. "I don't like that."

    "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."

    Jim spun around and instantly shifted into a standard Starfleet defensive stance. After about half a second, he remembered his intangibility.

    "Who?are you?" he asked as he looked at the man. Like Jim, his body had a blue tinge to it and was translucent. Unlike Jim, who wore his Starfleet uniform, he wore a simple gray shirt, white pants and a brown robe. His face was partially obscured by a hood. Jim walked up to him. "My name is James T. Kirk, late of the starship Enterprise. I ask again: who are you?"

    The man pulled down the hood. "I am to be your guide into what comes next. It will be confusing and perhaps a little frightening, but I can assure you it will be worth it in the end." The man's blue eyes shone with amusement as he spoke the next words. "Consider it the true 'final frontier'."

    Jim turned around slowly and looked up. By now Jean-Luc was halfway up the mountain. "A friend of mine once said that I can take death, and turn it into a fighting chance." He shrugged his shoulders. "I guess my chances were all used up." He looked at the man. "So, what force sent you here, the angels or the devils?"

    A low chuckle escaped from the man's lips. "I wouldn't call all of them angels, but it is a force of the light that sent me." He walked up to Jim and, much to his surprise, placed a hand on Jim's shoulder. "You have done much good, James T. Kirk. It's now time for you to rest. Let the burden of saving the galaxy fall onto the next generation's shoulders."

    For a second, he hesitated. Then a thought struck him. I'm dead. What good can come from hanging around this plane of existence when there's a new one just waiting? "All right, lead the way Mr.?" He hesitated as a look of confusion swept his face. "By the way, what's your name?"

    The man laughed. "I apologize." He bowed in a slightly exaggerated manner. "I am Obi-Wan Kenobi, but you can call me Ben." Ben put his arm around Jim's shoulders as the two walked off into the light.

    "Oh, Ben?"

    "Yes?"

    "Call me Jim."
  9. dianethx Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2002
    star 6
    That was great. I loved that you were able to pull the blue ghostie from SW and have him interact with a dead Jim. Good crossover.
  10. Star_Angel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2006
    star 4
    Mind if I join?

    --------------

    On the old topic:

    How many stories do you try to tackle at once? Do you have an upper limit? Do you do a disservice to the other stories if you're writing too many? Is there even anything such as "too many"?

    Right now I?m working on four and it?s more then I can handle, thank God that one is almost over, three I can do.

    I also made a silent promise to myself that I will never write another fic without it being almost completed first.

    ---------------

    Well, back to the new topic:

    I love crossovers, well, if they are good that is, meaning:

    1. Also for me it matters if you make a crossover where you mix all characters together or if you take SW characters and turn them into some other people. Unless you want to do as me in my x-over Padmé the Vampire Slayer (not so hard to guess which TV-shows I mixed it with) and do both.

    2. I also wrote that you don?t have to have watched or read BTVS/Angel to be able to read the fic and if (for me anyway) you can then I think that they?ll pass for readable I my standard.

    This might have been said before, I don't know.


    Like as an example to the challenge as well as for you to know what it is I?m talking about, an example from my first crossover:

    -------------

    Eleven years had past, eleven years of guarding a girl, in secret of course, but always watching.
    He had seen her take her first step, heard her first word, seeing her wake up in the middle of the night after a bad dream.
    He had been there tonight when she had gotten her new title, and he had seen her run out of the throne room and he had known that he had to follow her, make sure that she was safe.

    Because even if he had gotten his soul back, all those years ago, the evil was still inside of him, and always would be, it was like in those fairytales of a devil and an angel hovering over a person?s head, telling him what was right and wrong, and in his case, it was pathetically true. The devil urged him to kill her, to stop her from her bounden duty, to stop her from her calling, to gaining her new powers, to become the only person strong enough to kill him, kill his kind. However, his namesake kept telling him that he had to do what ever he could to help her, and of course, it was that he had to listen to.

    So here, he was again, fighting against his own kind, only to protect a girl that probably would kill him someday.
    But tonight was not that day, tonight she was just a scared little girl and the fear in her eyes when the creatures came closer to her, yes the were creatures, just like he was, but then he did not feel like one, and if he would have a heart, it would probably be aching for her, but he did not, because he might have gotten his soul back, but his heart had stopped beating over a thousand years ago.

    He managed to kill the four men with out much of an effort. Newbie?s for sure. He thought as he turned and looked a young Padmé Naberrie.

    ?Don?t worry, they are dust, literally?, he laughed and grinned at her before he knelt beside her. ?Are you okay??

    ?Y...Yes,? she started before she got her politics voice back and added, ?I am fine, and I do not know what those are...or were, but I do not care either so leave me alone.?

    He gave her a puzzled expression before asking. ?Is there a problem, ma'am?? he said, trying to look innocent but realized quickly that it did not work.

    "Yeah, there is a problem. Why were you following me?" she demanded to know and gave him an angry glare.

    Since innocence clearly did not work on this newly elected Princess, he decided that it was better to move on. "The truth is, I thought you'd be taller, older, bigger muscles and all that, you have quite a temper, though."

    ?Why would you think that?? She asked and looked at him with an expression that made him want to slap himself, of course, she did not know who she was yet, how could I have been so stupid,
    ?You will understand in time!? was all he said, could say, becau
  11. MsLanna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2005
    star 6
    Oh, wow! Those pieces were real help. Thanky ou all a lot.:)
    Reading them has really made me want to get my conversation right. *rubs hands together*
    As for the deatils, they ARE teh bugger of crossovers. I'm just glad I will only do one chapter each, I don't even know how to spell Mrs Gongall because I'm crossing he name with the gonagle of the Nac Mac Feegles.:oops: (Would somebody do a xover wioth those? I can just see those blue critters getting on everybodie's nerves...*snicker*)

    I must admit that a force-ghosting Kirk rather worries me.[face_worried] I think Spock would do a much better job...

    o_O Really [/Spock]
  12. Drabba_the_Hutt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 4
    The tricky part with the wee ones would be getting the speech right. Very easy to get wrong, that is. The crossover part would be relatively simple; since they're established as multidimensional beings, they could be on any rural planet somewhere.

  13. lazykbys_left Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2005
    star 4
    Er . . . is it the general consensus that established characters are necessary?

    Right now I am writing a Star Trek crossover using an all-OC cast. I'm doing this for a variety of reasons:

    1. I don't trust Luke & co. to do as they're told.
    2. I don't trust Kirk (or Picard, or Sisko, or Janeway, or Archer) & co. to do as they're told.
    3. Because I'm writing a story based on the situation and not the characters.
    4. Because I want to. And because I can.
    5. I want to keep it from becoming an AU.
    6. I'm too lazy to take the time and effort to get the established characters right.

    - lazy
  14. WyoJedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2005
    star 4
    I think the general consensus is that people usually use established characters, but it is by no means necessary!

    Certainly there are some mechanisms when using an established universe (ie: Star Trek or Star Wars) that must exist in the fic, but if you want to use Som Gie the Jedi Knight and the intrepid crew of the Starship Whatchamacallit there is nothing to stop you.

    Just my 2 cents!

    Cheers,
    Wyo
  15. SilSolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 5
    Dialogue dialogue dialogue... never my strength, especially compared to action and angst, both of which work better in just one universe IMO. Two universes=thrice as hard, but challenges are nice. Usually, my idea of crossing over is inserting hints of Dune into post-DN TK/Allana centric fics where I make TK a reverend mother and the Dathomiri witches the fremen. Now that I think about it, St. Alia the Knife would make a really good, Sithly version of Tenel Ka. Since I'm kinda improvising, I'll write in the format that I usually reserve for my notebooks.

    Still, I'll cross it over with Heralds of Valdemar.

    Sometime after the skirmishes with Corellia that eventually led to Jacen Solo's downfall, the Hapans stumbled upon an undiscovered planet in the Transitory Mists--a primitive, medieval world where magical creatures called Companions selected partners to help keep order on the planet, a world where magical creatures roamed, a world that resembled a slightly civilized version of Dathomir.

    Elspeth feels around the the dark vault for an exit but finds none.

    Elspeth: Mage-proofed as much as Force-proofed. Damn.

    TK: So you cannot Gate us out.

    Elspeth: I wish.

    TK: This is Ta'a Chume's work, but she is not working alone.

    Elspeth: *snickers* Surprise. But why me? I thought she'd be after my mom or my sister. I'm not my mother's heir anymore.

    Tenel Ka tries to locate the ysalamiri.

    TK: Fact, but you are still the first and the most influencial Herald-Mage.

    Elspeth: This whole thing's been weird, ever since your people found Valdemar.

    TK: I can only imagine. Your planet is unusual. The Force seems to run in lines here.

    Elspeth: Then your Jedi Force is our magic, since I can say the same about what I see whenever I'm offworld.

    Elspeth then remembers that TK was allowed to keep her lightsaber upon leaving the Jedi Order.

    Elspeth: Where is your light sword?

    TK: Allana borrowed it.
  16. RK_Striker_JK_5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2003
    star 7
    *Slides into thread*

    I'd like to thank everyone who's participated so far. I actually don't know when this will end, since I don't think a new topic's been decided on. I do hope I've helped people out.

    dianethx-Thank you! I prided myself on that piece, actually.

    Star_Angel-Not at all! :) Excellent Buffy/SW crossover, there. I loved the series... until about season 5, that is. Don't worry about the first excerpt. There was enough talking there. ;) I meant fighting between the two people talking. Oh, and it didn't suck.

    MsLanna-Good! That's what this is for. And well, Kirk died. Spock's still alive. Remember what I said abut details? ;)

    lazykbys_left -No. You can do it with OCs. That's not a restriction at all.

    SilSOlo-Interesting, there. Liked the dialogue. Allana borrowed her light sword? Good touch there with light sword, also.

  17. 1Yodimus_Prime Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2004
    star 4
    Hey, great topic, Strike. When I finally (if ever) finish "Planet Hopping", I actually plan on doing a pretty major crossover story, and a thread like this doing a discussion on that is just the dandiest thing of all, I must say.

    I agree with your assessment of fighting as it relates to crossovers. If I had a peso for every time Marvel used that little cliche, I'd be buying out Microsoft right now. In fact, that's one of the things that drew me to your TF/SW crossover - the various characters actually worked with eachother. Gasp!

    I've personally read a few stories where the crossover happens via a wormhole/rift thingy. It only really worked for me in one, and only because the GFFA in the story is AU to begin with. I believe I personally prefer interpretations where the two fictions somehow exist together in the same universe, but only now start interracting. Anyway, that should be perfectly reasonable an expectation for any earth-based fiction crossing to here. It's called a galaxy far, far away, not a unverse. But that's just me. I like stories that show careful planning and research went into their creation. It makes the explosions just that much more explodier.
  18. Souderwan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 6
    Hello all! Sorry I didn't get a chance to take part in the Crossover discussion. Truthfully, it's just one of those topics I know very little about and have very little to say. That, and the I haven't been around much, in general. But I read through the whole discussion and I have to say:


    GREAT JOB, RK!!!

    =D==D==D=

    Thanks so much for doing such a great job with this. I'm sure everyone learned something. Our next workshop will be sometime next month (I have to go check the schedule).

    Ok. Time for a new topic. I'll get the header updated by a Mod when I can but...


    NEW TOPIC!!!


    To lurk or not to lurk?

    How many of you lurk on other stories? When is is "ok" to lurk? How do you feel about lurkers on your storeis? Does it make you feel better about your fic if you know there are lots of lurkers?

    I've had an opportunity to consider the whole lurking question because I've been posting some of my fics at FF.net. There, I get to see how many hits my story gets and that kind of gives me a clue as to how many lurkers there might be (I actually track the hits/response ratio over time). It's rather remarkable. Both of my larger stories, though having much different hit-rates as far as quantity goes, have the same trends with respect to readership and response rates. After the first post, I only about 20-30% of readers go on to the second post. After that, it's a slight decrease over time but it's nearly flat. Interestingly, the same people tend to respond in each case, some more than others, but it's always the same people. That lead me to conclude that not everyone is going to respond. That's just the way thing are. In fact, only about 5-10% of readers seem to respond. I wondered if that was the case here as well. What do you think?

    (I'll be happy to share statistical analysis if anyone's interested).


    Let the discussion begin!!

  19. dianethx Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2002
    star 6
    I've only posted one story on ff.n because the popups drove me nuts. And still do.

    However, I have a few stories in the tf.n Archives and I get about 200 hits for every comment. You do the math... :p

    As for lurking, I admit it.[face_blush] I do lurk on occasion, usually because I'm too busy to leave a really long comment or else because the story idea may be great but the execution leaves something to be desired and I don't want to say anything negative. Sometimes, too, I forget. With so many stories on the boards, it can be difficult to keep track of things - which is why PM updates are great.

    I don't encourage lurking, though. We are paid with comments, not cash, so that's pretty much the only way we can see if the story is successful or not and even then, it's hard to tell. However, people have real lives and it's not always possible to leave a message. We shouldn't beat people up for lurking but just realize that it's part of life.

    As for the feeling better if I knew I had lots of lurkers, I already know I have lurkers. Sometimes they come out and play, sometimes not. I would like to know that I have more readers but, unless we get counters, that's just not possible.
  20. TKeira_Lea Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2002
    star 5
    First of all, kudos to Striker =D= It takes a lot of work to put together these workshops. I don't know a lot about crossovers, but I learned a lot by reading. Thanks :D

    On the subject of lurking, I have to admit I'm bad about that. I tend to print stories and read them outside my computer time. By the time I get back, the stories are on to a new post and I feel like a dope responding to the one from a time or two before. Diane is right about the counters. Between the Archive and the FF.net, where I have counters, I average well over 200 hits a reply, so...there's a lot of lurkers out there.
  21. Souderwan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2005
    star 6
    Like you both, I've lurked some myself. Oftentimes, I end up lurking because I want to leave a good response but none are forthcoming. Sometimes, I simply forget because, like TKL, I print out fics to read when I can and that sometimes leads to me forgetting to post a response when it comes to vignettes and the like.

    Of course, the number one reason I might lurk is that I am short on time and...well...I think the author in question doesn't really need me to respond. I know better than this, mind you, but this is how I justify it to myself. Some authors here have huge followings and get tons of responses so I convince myself that those authors won't miss my measely input.

    Am I the only one who does that?
  22. mastermeg_0228 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2006
    star 4
    okay first time i've visited the thread...the title got my attention. Lurking has been a subject of controversy between me, some of my readers, and some authors i have talked to.

    As Souderwan has said some authors have huge followings, and usually when that is the case I find myself too intimidated to post a relpy. Or the story might be too good, and I don't want to feel like an idiot...I know these are stupid reasons but I'm a little insecure. When I do finally post, like on multipost stories, and the writer is really supportive, I usually come back.

    As to lurkers on my stories, I honestly don't have a preference. I know there are lurkers and if you enjoy it good, if not than I would guess that's why you lurk. I honestly don't mind, whatever you feel comfortable with.

    meg
  23. Mirax_Corran Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2005
    star 4
    I lurk. I admit it. I'm often someone who reviews fics just enough to keep getting PMs. Sometimes not even that.

    I'm bad.

    I am ashamed, because I know that I for feedback, and that many other authors are the same. I try to make a point of reviewing any story that I really adored, but sometimes with one-shots, I just forget.

    At FF.n, I confess I've made a habit of it. I review a story once, set it so that I get emailed when it updates, and then disappear. *is shamed*

    I just don't have quite the mental energy to kick the habit.

    Which is not to say that lurking is good! Lurking is bad, very bad, simply because, as dianethx said, we're paid with comments not cash.

    Now, to kicking that nasty lurking habit at FF.n ...


    As for having lurkers, I really don't know the ratio, because I tend to check obsessively, and I never know how many of the hits are me double-checking my markups, or whatnot.

    And for appropriate times to lurk? I'm more likely to lurk when I have nothing to say but "This is terrible! Scrap it and start over!" However, that excuse is more applicable at ff.n than here. Here, there's really no time when it wouldn't be appropriate to review - excepting the aforementioned moment.

    But with a board like this you do get the cliquey issue. However, in my experience, the only way to get past that is to dive right in. Worked for me. :)
  24. oqidaun Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 5
    I've lurked on two occasions and I feel incredibly guilty about it.
    1.) I'd fallen miserably behind on a big story and was too overwhelmed and far behind to leave a decent review, but to this day I'm still following it at about two miles behind.
    2.) I found a story I really didn't like and got sucked in. I had popped in to check it out and ended up sticking around to see it to its unholy Mary Sue finish. It was like rubbernecking at really grisly trainwreck. I felt terrible in the end and I finally came out of hiding with a generic friendly comment of some sort, but I know I killed my review karma for at least a month afterwards.

    The thought of lurkers really terrifies me, because I tend to see the glass as perpetually half empty. In my head, the lurkers are always watching my trainwreck and having a good laugh. Granted I don't need to see a reply for every chapter a person reads, but I do kind of like to know who is out there. As far as the counters go. My ego couldn't take it on a good day.
    So, lurkers of the world, if you really want to make a writer's day come out of hiding for just a minute and give us a friendly wave.
  25. Persephone_Kore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2006
    star 4
    Actually, my opinion....

    Lurking is not bad. It's not as good as leaving feedback, but reading and enjoying a story is not a bad thing. I want feedback, but I'd darned sure rather have people read my story and enjoy it -- and leave feedback, if they wish, because they want to say something or encourage me -- than go, "Oh, I won't have time to respond properly and then I'll feel guilty, so I won't read this one."

    I like getting feedback. I like getting responses. That way I know somebody enjoyed the story, and enough to want to tell me about it at that. But I assume that people read fanfic for fun, not to make the authors happy, and that people are often lazy (or shy, or busy, or under the impression they don't have anything really to add), because that's the way I am, too. I assume that most of the people who read my stories but don't comment are enjoying them. (Maybe I'm egotistical? :)) Reading fanfic is for fun.

    Responding can also be fun, if there are things you want to say; a good story will often make me want to talk about it, though it may also just as well send me off to think without really having words for it. And if you want more of what you like, it's a good idea to provide some positive reinforcement. But I feel that as soon as somebody starts thinking it's work to read my story and feedback it, instead of something they want to do for fun, I've gone wrong somewhere. And if they're feeling guilty if they don't reply, well... that doesn't sound like they're doing it for fun anymore.

    I confess that when I see people talk about how depressing it is to get more hits than feedback, my usual reaction is to be afraid to try their fics in case I don't want to say anything. I've kind of drifted away from a whole (small) site based on that, actually.

    That said, I'll admit that the "no negative feedback" rule here can probably increase the paranoia that silence means someone didn't have anything nice to say. ;) I tend more toward frazzling over whether somebody is saying nice things when they'd rather say something else and possibly going over to a peeves thread later, but I may be weird.

    Um, well, I've done it on your stories.... *whistles*

    Although actually I've been meaning to send you a PM, because part of what I want to say refers to an exchange buried mid-thread and is really sort of goofy.
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