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Everything can be cliché if improperly done.

Bingo! I think so long as the plot works around the cliche, like the characters are believeable, or they have a real motivation (as SW said) then the idea ceases to be cliche for me. *shrugs* Honestly, if the person writes it well, I have few problems with their plot devices (unless they've made the character horribly out of character or something) but ANYWAY, that's pretty much my thoughts.

And I didn't write a huge long post... Hopefully that's okay...?

 

I agree with what others have said about super weapons trying to top each other, it just gets ridiculous unless some ingenuity is applied. Has anyone else read ?The Mouse that Roared??

The other problem I have is each time there is a super weapon it takes away from the whole, and makes the previous times seem less significant. If entire planets face 'certain doom' every time a Skywalker goes out for blue milk but the Skywalker narrowly averts the doom each time it seems a lot less certain each time till I don't even invest the time to read because I already know what is going to happen. You press any button too many times it wears out, and that's a pity when I'm watching ANH and '...when we demonstrate the power of this battle station,' fails to evoke a response.

 

Personally, I've had enough superweapons. I mean, what is this with the constant need to pwn (did I just type that? I did) the Death Star? Maybe that's the inherant problem with the whole idea. Once you've got the ability to blow up a planet--and then a sun-- There's just nowhere else to go.

Except puttin' a black hole on a leash.

Hey, it would be easier than putting my late, great, black cat Mittens (do not let the name fool you) on a leash.

Another thing about cliches that I've noticed:

If you use something, say a word choice or tic or etc. in your writing enough, it can almost become a cliche. I remember someone in a writing class I took tell me that my baroque writing style had gotten to the point where I made my own cliches. Um, yeah. (She also counted up the number of times I used certain images. We really did not get along.) But it's true. You don't want to get to the point where you're imitating yourself. The hard point is knowing when that is happening.

The big rule of writing (to go back to an old topic. Shrugs. Well, I missed it) is that you can do whatever you want. As long as you pull it off. Make it work. Own it.

 

Heh. I just got a nagging plot bunny to write a 'fic with the title "Your Mom is a Galaxy-Destroying Superweapon"...

But on a less absurd note, I think that it's important to point out that cliché in writing has a lot more to do with depth and authenticity than it does with actual thematic repetition. Blah, that doesn't make sense. Okay, basically, what I'm saying is this: no matter how creative we are, no matter how much we try to be completely original, we can't. The point of writing a good story isn't to do something no one else has done before, it's to write a good story. Plain and simple. Originality is very important--in fact, I usually loathe reading the latest variation on the same plot template used for almost half of the EU novels--but there's a line (a flexible one, I'm sure) we need to be aware of.

Thematically, we need to be aware of the traditions we're drawing upon when we write. If we take a look at the best stories of the Star Wars universe (i.e., for me, the Thrawn Trilogy and late sequel duology, among others, including the movies) we see the same themes that occur in thousands of stories--good versus evil, temptation, redemption, sacrifice, etc. And it's not that keeping the same themes as the movies ruins the Thrawn Trilogy; no, it gives it a more accurate "Star Wars" feel.

Where continuity crosses over into cliché, then, is where the story takes on more than the spirit of the original, and becomes a copy rather than a contribution. It's kind of like the issue of plagiarism in academic writing: you're supposed to use the work of other people to frame and reinforce your writing, but the minute you claim their work as your own you're plagiarizing.

Personally, I think there are a lot of profic Star Wars books that are clichéd. It frustrates me, too, because I just don't see why they have to be. I recently recovered from a temporary obsession with Harry Potter, and during that time I kept trying to figure out why I liked the story so much, despite the fact that every book has more or less the same structure and format, and that it has so many of the same themes and conflicts and developments that thousands of stories have had. And then I realized that what makes them so good is that they tell the story well. Sure, we've seen the powerful-evil-bad-guy-versus-humble-unassuming-good-guy-who-wins-through-integrity theme more times than we can count, but when the struggle is told well it's not a problem to use it in a story.

It's just when the story isn't told well, or isn't told honestly, that it becomes weak.

Bah. I keep getting on these half-baked rants. I'll just end with this: one of the most important attributes an author can have is humility. Be aware of the things that motivate both you and your story; that way, it's harder to steal them and pretend you invented them.

 

And I didn't write a huge long post...plain Hopefully that's okay...? grin

SQ, only dumb people like me need a lot of words to say something simple. Smart peole talk little and say much.

The other problem I have is each time there is a super weapon it takes away from the whole, and makes the previous times seem less significant. If entire planets face 'certain doom' every time a Skywalker goes out for blue milk but the Skywalker narrowly averts the doom each time it seems a lot less certain each time till I don't even invest the time to read because I already know what is going to happen. You press any button too many times it wears out, and that's a pity when I'm watching ANH and '...when we demonstrate the power of this battle station,' fails to evoke a response.

Great point! If the Galactic Abrogator shows up on the scene, then suddenly the Death Star seems like small potatoes. It also, imo, makes the Empire into a bunch of idiots (which they aren't, imo) because they keep trying the same thing over and over again. If you're a member of the Empire's upper echelon, you should be considering redistribution of your forces to better infiltrate and disrupt the Alliance's power base, rather than trying to intimidate them into submission--which clearly hasn't worked every time it's been tried.


If you use something, say a word choice or tic or etc. in your writing enough, it can almost become a cliche.

Yes! Well said. This goes back to an earlier discussion about use of words repeatedly. Someone pointed out that the more uncommon the word, the less you should use it or it. That's so true. For me, I'll want to use an uncommon word and I have to remind myself that if I do, that word's off-limits for the rest of the fic.

Heh. I just got a nagging plot bunny to write a 'fic with the title "Your Mom is a Galaxy-Destroying Superweapon"...




Okay, basically, what I'm saying is this: no matter how creative we are, no matter how much we try to be completely original, we can't.


The old Plato view "There's nothing new under the sun", point of view? Can't argue with that one, frankly.

The point of writing a good story isn't to do something no one else has done before, it's to write a good story. Plain and simple. Originality is very important--in fact, I usually loathe reading the latest variation on the same plot template used for almost half of the EU novels--but there's a line (a flexible one, I'm sure) we need to be aware of.

I think the line is in execution. Themes are universal and rarely is one going to come up with an original theme. If you go back far enough, you'll never find an original theme. But how do you execute the theme? Your example of the Harry Potter novels is perfect. Big bad guy; chosen one who doesn't want or really accept the job of defeating him; insurmountable odds; sage mentor to guide the chosen one; and chosen one's moment of acceptance. That's where we are in the HP novels now. This is the same theme in The Matrix, the OT (where Luke is the "last hope" vs. "the chosen one" but the role is the same), and tons of stories like them. Some are excellent and resolve themselves superbly (OT) and others fizzle (The Matrix). I don't think they're cliche, in and of themselves. What would be cliched is if the excecution was poor. When you find yourself rolling your eyes after every line of dialogue, then it's cliche.

There's my two and a half credit.

Thematically, we need to be aware of the traditions we're drawing upon when we write. If we take a look at the best stories of the Star Wars universe (i.e., for me, the Thrawn Trilogy and late sequel duology, among others, including the movies) we see the same themes that occur in thousands of stories--good versus evil, temptation, redemption, sacrifice, etc. And it's not that keeping the same themes as the movies ruins the Thrawn Trilogy; no, it gives it a more accurate "Star Wars" feel.

 

Ok, I'm back from Florida! Since no new thoughts have been added on the cliche front, I thought I'd start a new topic.

How do you write the dark side of the Force? For that matter, how do you write the Force in general?

In the OT, the Force was most akin to the Eastern philosophical view of Chi. Yoda was like the old Kung Fu Master who had mastered the Chi and Vader and the Emperor were representative of what can happen when your Chi is misaligned. The Force was an energy field that was mostly unbiased and impersonal in these things and it was how the Force was used (good vs. evil) that determined how we experienced it.

In the PT, the Force is more akin to Western ideology in that the Force has a will and everything. The Force seems to have much more direct impact on the daily goings on of the Jedi. The Jedi seems to believe that the Force directs their actions and controls their lives (at least partially) and the Jedi are much more passive in their interaction with the Force.

So which one fits your view of the Force better? As it relates to the question at hand, given your interpretation of the Force, how do you deal with writing the Dark Side of the Force? As a separate question, why do you think GL has two different views of the Force between the PT and the OT? Is it significant? Let the discussion begin!!

 

Welcome back from Florida! Hot and stinky huh?

First off I don't think George had a different view of the Force between the trilogies. If you asked him he most certainly has one idea of the Force - either a will or an impassive energy. It's really how the characters interact with the Force that changes. Too, as every person grows and learns life's lessons they see things differently.

For me the Force has a higher purpose - it is life. But it doesn't exert a will over anyone. It has a natural balance but Jedi must choose to allow the Force to guide them into that natural balance. I think Star Wars - the movies in particular - are all about choice. Certainly, the idea that there is a Dark Side has merit - but it's not the Force that's dark but the choices of the users. It's just like a lightsaber - in the right hand it's a good thing, in the wrong hands a lightsaber is a tool of evil.

 

Just read this and had to comment on it.

Inara, I must respectfully disagree with you on that one. I like it when that happens in fiction. That's why it's fiction. I hate reading sad endings because my life's been depressing enough. Dang it, I need some moral uplifting from what I read.

And the Crystal Star introduced Lusa to us, and is therefore redeemed.

 

I always thought the respective "sides" of the Force were generated by emotional states. If we accept that the Force is cerated by life, then would it not make sense taht the "light" side is generated by positive emotions, and the "Dark" side by negative ones?"

And uh, oh yeah, hi. *waves to Souderwan*

 

TKL, I had this great response all written up and then my computer went all screwy and locked up. Sadly, my brain's too fried from 14 hrs of driving to rewrite the whole thing. And yeah...I think I need a shower too...

So...I'm just gonna say that I'll pick this back up again in the morning.

Hey Arcalian! Welcome!! You too, RK!!! [face_high_five]

 

Thanks, Souderwan. And now perhaps I should respond to the current topic...

I truly believe there is a 'Light Side' and a 'Dark Side' to the Force. There is good and evil in all of us, and since we're life, and the Force is life, then there is good and evil in the Force as well.

So, I write the Force like that. The Jedi can hear the whispering of the darkness but must fight against it. And my Sith Lords are evil pieces of scum, fully given over to their baser urges.

 

I've always considered the Jedi ideal to be as passive as the situation allows. They do not seek out, they only carry out the task before them and accept what is; this is, as best I can tell, the essence of Zen. Of course this is the ideal, and no one can completely fulfill an ideal.

Philosophically, I write Sith as ones who have embraced Nietzschian philosophy. They are superior to everyone else, the galaxy exists to elevate them, and that is completely their due.

Dark Jedi I typically write as individuals who have rationalized or feel justified in whatever they are doing.

I do think of the Force having a will, but I don't think of it as much of an active participant. I think of it more like fate. When the dye is cast what is coming cannot be changed, but individuals fulfill their own potential for success or ruin. Beyond that, those who are sensitive to the Force can alter the potentials around them to some extent. It partially controls your actions but it also obeys your commands...

 

How do you write the dark side of the Force? For that matter, how do you write the Force in general?

I write the Force something in between the energy field and the higher power - an energy that exists to be used, for good or evil, and is neither good nor evil in and of itself. Occasionally it seems to exert a will of its own - but this is actually the character's unconscious, picking up on subtleties that s/he doesn't recognize. I don't like the idea of the will of the Force (as a sentient thing), because it makes sloppy writing tempting. Too easy to do a deus-ex-machina that way. I did it once, I admit, but it was very small - a character's hyperspace jump coordinates getting slightly screwed up - and it could, if necessary, be retconned as unconscious behavior.

Typically, and this is perhaps an oversimplification, I write the light side as passive - let the Force flow through you, let it move you (though the person and hir free will are still in control, through trust and practice) - and the dark side as active - the user commanding the Force instead of vice versa, spurred on by emotion, usually dark emotion.

Edit: Reminds self that the tag format is brackets not < and >.

 

Oh, I like this thread! Great idea, Souderwan.

Alison, your view of light side as passive Force use and Dark Side as active is interesting, because I tend to see it exactly the opposite. I think of Force power as being sort of "too strong" for people without a very iron will. So if you lose control of it and start acting according to your emotions, you could end up using Dark power. That means that the Jedi always have to keep a tight grip on themselves to use the Force and control it carefully to do their will, whereas the Dark Jedi (I havent done much with actual Sith...) unleash the Dark Side completely by giving up their free will to it. I wrote one fic where they can actually lose consciousness and allow the Dark Side to use their bodies as vessels, going on mindless killing rampages. The Dark Side would eat away at their will by giving them nightmares and making them generally miserable, so that they wished for oblivion and eventually gave up, becoming Instruments of Darkness. It was a lot of angsty fun

 

How do you write the dark side of the Force? For that matter, how do you write the Force in general?

I haven't really written the Force, but if I did, there would not be a dark and light side. There would only be the Force and the dark and light would come from the motivations of the people using it.

Although it doesn't really matter if the Force has a dark side or light side, bc if only light side users draw on the Force, the dark side will never assert itself without someone to harness it, IMO.

And when I use the term 'the will of the Force' I mean it in a fate/destiny sort of way; I don't mean the Force has a tangible will that directs actions.

 

I've always viewed the Force as untapped potential energy. It exists in all things and connects all things. The Force is impersonal. It does not distinguish between good and evil. It demands nothing and requires nothing in return for its use. It is omnipresent but it is not omniscient. It gives one a glimpse of the possibilities of the future as one flows down the river of the choices but it does not do this out of some kind of intent, but rather because you ask this of the Force.

I think about Luke on Dagobah, worried about his friends and the Force shows him their pain--not because the Force wanted him to go after them, but because Luke unconciously asked the Force to show him what would happen. Yoda understood this and told Luke that the future is impossible to see. There were too many choices that can influence that path. That moment really influenced my view of the Force. In fact, my entire view of the Force was shaped on Dagobah during ESB. "Only what you take with you..." As AF mentioned, it is how we use the Force that determines what side of the Force we end being on.

I truly believe there is a 'Light Side' and a 'Dark Side' to the Force. There is good and evil in all of us, and since we're life, and the Force is life, then there is good and evil in the Force as well.

I only agree that there is good and evil in all of us. I think that the good and evil in us determines how we use the Force and not how the Force is made up, necessarily.


I've always considered the Jedi ideal to be as passive as the situation allows. They do not seek out, they only carry out the task before them and accept what is; this is, as best I can tell, the essence of Zen. Of course this is the ideal, and no one can completely fulfill an ideal.

Philosophically, I write Sith as ones who have embraced Nietzschian philosophy. They are superior to everyone else, the galaxy exists to elevate them, and that is completely their due.

Dark Jedi I typically write as individuals who have rationalized or feel justified in whatever they are doing.

This is very similar to my view of the relationship among the various Force-users. In fact, when I write the Force, the Jedi are warm, the Sith are cold and the Dark Jedi are hot. The Jedi are not ruled by their emotions, while the Sith try not to feel emotions but only use them as a source of power. Think about Palpy, Vader, and Dooku. All very cold and distant except when in battle. That's why I never think of Maul as a true Sith. He was too driven by his emotion to be a very good Dark Lord

I find it interesting, raisedbywolves (welcome, btw! ) that you and AlisonC have such disparate points of view on the Force. I think there is something to what both of you think about the Force. I agree that being a user of the Force requires phenomenal amount of control. I think that the Sith have just as much control as the Jedi, however. There are darksiders like Depa (Mace's padawan from Shatterpoint) who lose control.


And when I use the term 'the will of the Force' I mean it in a fate/destiny sort of way; I don't mean the Force has a tangible will that directs actions.

I've got the whole fate/destiny/predestination discussion coming up soon....

 

Whoa, good topic. I've had a lot of confusion about the Force over the course of my life obsession with Star Wars, and I don't know if I've resolved any of it yet, but that's okay.

I have to say, I always just took the Force for what the OT always said about it. It's a... something (i.e., energy field? presence? whatever) that links life together. I dunno, for me it always felt like a couple of different things. For one, it reminded me of energy. I'm not a scientist and never will be, and admittedly I don't have much more than a prep school understanding of it, but one thing I've always been intrigued by is how inadequate our definitions of energy are. As in, it's like it's something that we know is there, can observe, can measure, can manipulate, but not something we can define or create (I mean, create properly--i.e., discarding all that weird stuff that happens at the quantum level or near the speed of light, we have the conservation of energy principle). I dunno--it seems like the Force is a lot like that--something that's just there, that we can't create or anything, but something Jedi can manipulate for some reason.

Now, I didn't really understand why only certain people can manipulate it and others no, but I kind of just let that slide. I mean, when you're like eight years old, it's not like you care about the why, you just wanna see things get thrown all over the place. I guess midichlorians are supposed to explain that, but frankly I'm left even more confused now that there's an "explanation" of the Jedi's abilities. It seems a little weird that you can measure a person's Force potential with the same test you use to check for sickle cell anemia (complaint borrowed/stolen from one of the funniest spoof radio sketches of Star Wars fans that I've ever heard, with MC Chris).

There is one thing that I do need to bring up, and it's kind of already been mentioned, but it's the Western view of the Force. It was hinted at in one of the New Jedi Order books (Edge of Victory: Conquest, I think), but there's a fanfic out there right now which has some really well-reasoned philosophy regarding the Force from a Western perspective (by Quiet_Mandalorian, so find him and read his 'fic, because I won't be able to put it so well).

Basically, in the New Jedi Order, the whole overriding conflict is that the Jedi can't sense the Yuuzhan Vong in the Force, and the series allegedly goes about discovering why (though I'm less satisfied than I originally was when I finished the series). I guess the end is to unpack the limited philosophy of the Jedi in order to come to a broader understanding of the Force (i.e., a greater awareness of the Unifying Force). I wish I could tell you what that all means, but I can't. All I know is that at the end of the series, the hero is someone who decides to let go of his own individuality and egocentrism in order to embrace the all-encompassing power of the Force, and he ends up sort of absorbing the bad guy in a very cool but odd scene.

The book I referred to, though, the one with Anakin Solo before he snuffs it, was one that totally got my attention, and I don't even know if it was intentional. It sort of danced around the issue it decided to raise when Anakin started thinking that the Force might not be the authority the Jedi thought it was. I don't know about you all, but that kind of raises the issue of Deity/Will that includes the Force, but is not limited to it.

Like I said, it's just a hint, and I don't think it's meant to be taken to that extent, but I'm not sure where else it can be taken. It makes more sense to me than the idea of the Force itself being the semi-sentient/semi-passive/semi-whatever energy field I used to think it was, but I admit that I come from a highly biased perspective when it comes to issues of worldviews involving Deity....

Here's what I've observed on my own. In the OT, Ben talks about the Force as both a source of power and a source of guidance, which can be both listened to and harnessed, but it definitely includes both parts. In

 

There is one thing that I do need to bring up, and it's kind of already been mentioned, but it's the Western view of the Force. It was hinted at in one of the New Jedi Order books (Edge of Victory: Conquest, I think), but there's a fanfic out there right now which has some really well-reasoned philosophy regarding the Force from a Western perspective (by Quiet_Mandalorian, so find him and read his 'fic, because I won't be able to put it so well).

...

Here's what I've observed on my own. In the OT, Ben talks about the Force as both a source of power and a source of guidance, which can be both listened to and harnessed, but it definitely includes both parts. In the PT, it's more or less the same, except it's also an interaction between living creatures (i.e., the symbiosis of the midichlorians and their hosts?/carriers?/sentient partners?). That's interesting to me, because it reinforces the thing that Kenobi said in A New Hope, where the Force "binds the galaxy together," and it means that the Force inherently involves interaction/relationship. Then, if we get into the EU, and specifically the NJO, we see that the Force is by nature unifying, and surrender to the Force means surrender to unification. This would explain why death for a Jedi means becoming "one with the Force"--it's the ultimate unification.

I don't think it's the same in the PT at all. In the PT, the Force is a much more active participant in all things than it is in the OT. From the moment we learn about the midichlorians and QGJ tells Anakin that if he quiets his mind, he can "hear them speaking to you," the Force is presented as something more physical than metaphysical--spiritual than mystical. Then we learn that Anakin is a "vergence in the Force", born with no Father--ostensibly birthed by the Force itself to carry out an ancient prophecy. The Force becomes a weapon which Palpatine uses to cloud the vision of the Jedi (not something even alluded to in the OT). The characters repeatedly refer to "The Will of the Force" as if the Force is an entity. QGJ talks about the living Force and how we must follow it's guidance even if we don't understand it. We're even led to believe (as many on these boards do) that QGJ's view of the Force is superior to everybody elses. I think there's a stark contrast between the way the Force is portrayed in the PT and OT.

I'm not versed enough in the EU to talk intelligently about it, but it did seem to me that there was a much more mystical view of the Force for a while then it got a little...out there. But...I'll leave that for others to ponder.

 

Philosophically, I write Sith as ones who have embraced Nietzschian philosophy. They are superior to everyone else, the galaxy exists to elevate them, and that is completely their due.

Dark Jedi I typically write as individuals who have rationalized or feel justified in whatever they are doing.

That's fascinating... and retroactively looking at one of my fics, it makes a LOT of sense. I had two Sith Lords, and one of them ultimately turned away from the dark path. But looking at her actual motivations, she is more of a Dark Jedi. Oh, she wants to rule over everything and gain power and all that, but deep down, by the start of the story, she'd already switched over to rationalization mode: using the Dark Side because that's what it takes to get rid of threats - and thus it's less surprising, perhaps, when she ended up coming back and the other Sith Lord stayed dark and blossomed into an "Everything exists for me" type of thinker by the next time he is seen in fic.

And re: passivity vs. activity, either viewpoint works from a certain point of view. Which is an interesting thing to think about in itself.

 

Hi Souderwan! Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I do think that the Sith are very much in control, that's why I think I tend to avoid writing them. I'm a little uncomfortable with the fact that people can do terrible things completely on purpose. You know how we always want to think every murderer is crazy instead of just plain bad...

Midichlorians. Grr. Originally I figured that whoever took the time and effort to "tune into" the Force could use it, and it was just easier for those who were strong in the Force to do it. Now we find out that there's some kind of hereditary Force-elite

I think it's entirely possible that Lucas, in creating the Force, wasn't entirely sure what he himself was talking about. Particularly when it comes to Anakin's being conceived by it. Now that, let's face it, was wacky! I mean, was there anyone who saw TPM for the first time and honestly thought, "oh, conceived by the Force and midichlorians and junk, ok, that makes perfect sense!"

What I'm trying to say is that I don't particularly delve into the nature of the Force in my fics, because that doesn't have much to do with moving the story along. For my Force-sensitive characters it's just kind of there, which makes sense to me because they've always known and used it. For a Jedi, the sentence "I reached out and used the Force to guide my movements" has the same self-explanatory quality as "I sat down in the big fluffy armchair". The Force-users wouldn't suddenly begin to think: "But what IS this thing that guides my movements? Do I control it, or does it control me? Is it energy? A deity? My head's going to explode!" any more than we would speculate, "But what IS this armchair? A piece of matter? and what is that? How do I know that it's a chair, and not something else? Plato's Cave?! And what is the essence of fluffiness?!"

Sure, we don't really know what matter is, we don't know what life is or how we are able to think and have a soul, we don't know what our purpose here is. But day to day we just kind of run around and do our thing in this mysterious world anyway. I think most people in a universe that included the Force would handle it the same way.

None of which makes these discussions any less entertaining of course!

 

And re: passivity vs. activity, either viewpoint works from a certain point of view. grin Which is an interesting thing to think about in itself.

Isn't it, though?

Midichlorians. Grr. Originally I figured that whoever took the time and effort to "tune into" the Force could use it, and it was just easier for those who were strong in the Force to do it. Now we find out that there's some kind of hereditary Force-elite eye-roll

I always figured there was some kind of biological explanation for why some people were more sensitive to the Force than others. I guess I just didn't want to know what that thing was. I liked the idea that if someone tried hard enough, no matter what the circumstances of their birth, they'd be able to manipulate the Force. But alas, that doesn't seem to be the case. *sigh*

I think it's entirely possible that Lucas, in creating the Force, wasn't entirely sure what he himself was talking about.

You know? I got flamed off the SW.com boards once for suggesting the very same thing. Truth be told, when I watched this documentary on SW on TLC, GL referred heavily to the ancient samurai and the budhist monks as influencing his idea of the Jedi--i.e. The Jedi were like the Samurai with the additional ability to harness their Chi, which he called The Force. It was only later that he found it necessary to more properly define what exactly the Force was. I'm not sure that he needed to do that.

Particularly when it comes to Anakin's being conceived by it. Now that, let's face it, was wacky! I mean, was there anyone who saw TPM for the first time and honestly thought, "oh, conceived by the Force and midichlorians and junk, ok, that makes perfect sense!"

LOL!! Umm...yeah. There are very few redeeming qualities about that movie, imo. Darth Maul, to me, ruined my idea of the Sith. Every Sith Lord I'd seen before him and since is cool and filled with quiet danger. This guy was just a roiling, seething bundle of rage. It's how I pictured Dark Jedi--not Sith. But I digress....


What I'm trying to say is that I don't particularly delve into the nature of the Force in my fics, because that doesn't have much to do with moving the story along. For my Force-sensitive characters it's just kind of there, which makes sense to me because they've always known and used it. For a Jedi, the sentence "I reached out and used the Force to guide my movements" has the same self-explanatory quality as "I sat down in the big fluffy armchair".

LOL! I like that. I suppose it depends on the kind of story you're trying to tell. The nature of the Force is somewhat important when dealing with people being influenced by it as opposed to merely manipulating it to create a desired effect. In other words, if I'm using the Force as a tool, it's not really important how that tool works. But if I'm talking about turning to the dark side of the Force, then it's essential that I understand how this whole dark side thing works.

 

I always figured there was some kind of biological explanation for why some people were more sensitive to the Force than others. I guess I just didn't want to know what that thing was. I liked the idea that if someone tried hard enough, no matter what the circumstances of their birth, they'd be able to manipulate the Force. But alas, that doesn't seem to be the case. *sigh*

It also brings in another question about Force-sensitivity. We know the process is now biological, but what brings that thread about in any given person? There seems to be a genetic element involved, as the children of Force-sensitives seem to have a high chance of being Force-sensitive themselves, but what about all of those examples you hear about where a certain alien species rarely produces any sentients with a high affinity with the Force. What causes that rare occurence? Is it random? The "will" of the Force?

What came first, the midichlorians or the Force? What use are they to those with a low number of them? Are they a byproduct of Force sensitivity or the cause of it? Of course, I don't have any answers, but I think it allows for a lot of possibilities to explore in a story.

LOL!! Umm...yeah. There are very few redeeming qualities about that movie, imo. Darth Maul, to me, ruined my idea of the Sith. Every Sith Lord I'd seen before him and since is cool and filled with quiet danger. This guy was just a roiling, seething bundle of rage. It's how I pictured Dark Jedi--not Sith. But I digress....

Then again, based on the movies alone there's no such thing as a Dark Jedi, so you could take them just as progressions of thought on the road to Sithdom. Perhaps the Sith are more like the Jedi in terms of varying individual perspectives (Qui-Gon versus say, Mace). I could easily see a dullard of a Sith who is physically powerful but perhaps not very intelluctually developed (maybe Maul, maybe not), operating just a breath at any given time from total rage and anger. The question then becomes - is he really a Sith, or just a really pissed off dude with a laser sword and a dislike of Jedi?

You would certainly think there would be some continuity between Sith attitudes, else what would be their self-identity? Surely the Sith are more than "cloaked bad dudes with red eye", or simply dark side, non-Jedi. We've never really seen a lot of their normal behavior, beliefs, or mantras are (though the KOTOR games explored some of it).

Midichlorians. Grr. Originally I figured that whoever took the time and effort to "tune into" the Force could use it, and it was just easier for those who were strong in the Force to do it. Now we find out that there's some kind of hereditary Force-elite

Well, at least from the movies, there was always a Force-elite. We never saw any indication to suggest everyone was capable of using the Force. And I'm not so sure the chief element of sensitivity is hereditary, though; the example of Anakin alone seems to suggest there's more to it, as well as the cases I mentioned above. It's an interesting discussion whichever the direction, though.

 

Thanks for the great thoughts, Exeter! And welcome to the Parthenon!! [face_high_five]

Well, it looks like it's time for a new topic. Be back in a bit with one.

 

NEW TOPIC

This topic is brought to you by your friendly neigborhood IrishEyedJedi!! Please PM me your suggestions for discussion and they will be added.


Anakin and Padme's romance has been compared to romeo and juliet. A romance doomed from the start. On the other hand Leia and Han's romance is said to be real and one which will last forever. Why did the daughter get it right but the mother didn't?How do you write their different relationships? How do you write the different characters to make the relationships work?

 

I've discovered there are three different ways of writing Han & Leia.

The Snarky Way -- This being them snipping at each other all the time, with out a break.

The Emotional Way -- Allowing them to express their feelings and take their relationship to the next level.

The Physical Way -- Physical tension is a wonderful thing and these two have a lot of it. When it's written correctly it can give ya goosebumps.

Everyone has a strength in one of these area's when writting this couple, but it's the rare writer who can get all three into a fic (please know I do NOT claim to be one of those people).