The Patriot: Recycle and Reuse.

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Sithman, Feb 7, 2001.

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  1. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    \\faints\\ this is not happening, I GOT MY FORUM! YAY! lol, anyways, here's a cool thread I've had in mind for ages.

    Well, I'm assuming that most or at least some of you here have seen "The Patriot". And as we all know, JW did the music. It appears he ran out of ideas while doing the score too. :-D Don't believe me? I'll prove it!

    -Okay, for one, there's the song playing while Mel Gibson and his family just setting off to Charlestown. Now, if you've all seen "Home Alone 2" (another JW film) you would DEFINTELY recognize the music from when Kevin is looking for the first time at Duncan's Toychest. Very similar, very obvious. Check it out on Napster if you dont' believe me. :-D

    -Secondly, there is the flute part when Mel, Aunt Charlotte and Co. are at the little "Jamaican Place" (the place where Gabriel gets married). I dunno the exact part but sometime while they're there, there's a flute or recorder playing some melody- the EXACT same melody playing while Anakin is talking to his mom after he turns around and says he "Can't do it". Want proof?

    The Patriot music- Track: Susan Speaks- 00:37 into the track.

    TPM music- UE, Disk 2, Track: 1- 2:12 into the track.

    Listen, and be astounded. JW recycles. :-D

    ~Sithman~

    P.S. Another great thanks to cleo!
  2. Cindé of Naboo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2000
    star 4
    I haven't actually heard the music from the Patriot yet, but I have noticed that the main themes from Home Alone and Hook are immensely similar, and "Marion's Theme" from Raiders of the Lost Ark and "Han Solo and the Princess" from ESB begin with the same two-note interval. If he likes a theme, it seems, he'll reuse it. ;)
  3. Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 6
    You forgot to mention that JW re-used his rendition of "The British Grenadiers" from Empire of the Sun in The Patriot.

    Overall, I really don't think JW is a redundant composer. Sure, there are some similarities here and there, but when you've composed so many scores, it's hard to make them all 100% unique. James Horner is a better example of a redundant composer (though I still like him, some of his scores are way too reminiscent of other scores of his).
  4. Cindé of Naboo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2000
    star 4
    I like finding similarities in JW's music because he doesn't just recycle it straight in its original form; he modifies it and shapes it to fit its new use. So there's still quite a bit of creativity involved. It's not necessarily just what music he writes, but what he does with that music.
  5. Son of the Suns Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 6
    I agree.

    Another similarity in The Patriot: The first few notes of one of the main themes sound exactly like the first few notes of the choral portion of "Dry Your Tears, Afrika" from Amistad.
  6. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Anyone else notice these differences? Oh, BTW, The Patriot also has parts that sound like Jurrasic Park, anyone notice that?

    ~Sithman~
  7. jamesdrax Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 6
    There is a British theme locked in there somewhere that sounds similar to bits and pieces heard in the final duel in TPM.
  8. Réka Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 4
    Recycling music is as old as music itself. (I'm sure most of you have heard the old adage about Rossini's one overture for 5 operas vs. Beethoven's 5 overtures for one opera.)

    All the famous old composers reused their old music, sometimes without even changing anything except the words or the instrumentation. Some (such as Handel) were even fond of "reusing" music they didn't write in the first place.

    I like how JW does his recycling, because it's never blatantly obvious.
  9. Connemara Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 6
    Hey peeps, there's homeschool initiative for ya! I start Gaming League, Sithy starts forum :p

    Anyway, yes, I DID notice the Jurassic Parl theme, no others, but then I've never seen any of the other movies mentioned. Hey, BTW, what do people here think of the Patriot? I thought it was awesome! :)
  10. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    CONN? Wow, I thought you LEFT the JC! Cool! You're back! So, how you like "my" forum (sorry, I can't resist). It's my dream. :-D

    ~Sithman~
  11. Sithman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 1999
    star 7
    Hey, have any of you heard the Jurassic Park theme in The Patriot as well? lol, that makes 3 re-used motifs: Jurassic Park theme, Anakin saying goodbye to Shmi, and "Duncan's Toychest" from Home Alone II. Sheesh, enough recycling!

    ~Sithman~
    The sithiest J.E.D.I. around!
  12. ObiWanJane Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 1999
    star 4
    Unfortunately, some movie composers recycle some of their music. I've heard several examples of it over the years -- though I've never heard any of what you're talking about in The Patriot.

    :D
  13. Demosthenes_Locke Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 2
    I think it's unfair to say that John Williams reused or recycled any previous ideas. One has to keep in mind that every composer has their own unique style. And that style is going to be evident in each and every song they compose. In addition to that directors will often seek out a certain composer based off of previous music. So sometimes the composer is asked to reinvent certain themes.

    The most famous example of this is 2001. Stanley Kubrick made his own version of the film using classical music. His intention was to show this version to his composer and have he/she make music that was similar. But before doing so he realized that the classical music he had chosen was as good if not better then any modern day score that could be made.

    I believe I also heard John Williams say that Lucas had already picked out music for Episode I. This is am effectuve way for the director to illustrate to the composer what style he wants to hear in him movie.

    How many times have you been watching a movie at the theater and you all of sudden relaize that the music was done by so and so? Thats because all of the composers allow for their previosu work to bleed into the latest score. Hans Zimmer is for me the most recognizable composer. Look at songs like The Rock, Crimson Tide, Backdraft, and Broken Arrow. VERY similar in certain parts. That's not a bad thing it's a good thing.
  14. Erin Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2000
    star 4
    I heard Jurassic Park and "British Grenadiers" in The Patriot, but that's all.
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