Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Nub, Dec 12, 2011.
I suppose, but I'm going by the ANH dogfights. Even with deflectors it shouldn't be able to take like twenty shots compared to ANH's X-Wings taking one or two.
I don't think all the shots hit, at least not directly.
I just watched the scene again to confirm. Still seems like overkill to me. Twenty shots total is an understatement. Watch it in slow-mo. There is a period during the laserfire where it must of hit at least fifteen times. It takes me out of the movie that Obi-Wan can conveniently survive that intact.
Don't get me wrong, I don't perceive all of the action in the movie this way. The Geonosis ground battle is an improvement on the battle in TPM, mainly because of Jar Jar's antics during the Ep1 battle. I don't mind him in other scenes but that was too much. The speeder chase works, including Anakin's several-stories-high fall, which doesn't seem far fetched to me because Jedi can see the future, and Anakin is getting powerful by that stage.
The Yoda duel is a little silly, but I'll take any lightsaber duel i can get, really. It somewhat sets up the Yoda vs Sidious duel in the next film.
Dude their is no reason to make absurd sweeping statements, I am 33 and I love the prequel trilogy and I enjoy every Star Wars film equally. I am not trying to say that their is not a segment of older fans that dislike the prequels, but haven't you ever heard of something called a VOCAL MINORITY. I entirely blame the media for the perception of the prequels and the changes to the films, I believe people have a lot more favorable view of the prequels than the media and critics would like you to believe. I honestly believe that critics have always had a ax to grind with Lucas with him making his films independently and going against the director's guild. Last but not least I have bought Star Wars on VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray I am glad that they have never chosen to use critics quotes on the boxes of the films, the movies can sell themselves I don't need some hack to justify my purchase!
The older fans, those who watched ANH back in 1977, aren't in the segment 20 to 30. They're over 40. None of my RL fans who have been SW friends since back then, about half a dozen people, are having a problem with the PT. All of them like the films. I've only seen bashers in that age segment on the internet.
I've already retracted that statement somewhat in the first page of this thread as being exactly what you said - sweeping. It's probably not 90%, it might be about 50%. Maybe less, maybe more. No one's ever been able to pin down a realistic figure, as the arguments tend to cite websites like Rotten Tomatoes as 'evidence'.
My point was that if you go out with a camera & interview a bunch of older SW fans, the majority of watchable, entertaining footage you're going to end up with is of embittered, whingeing nerds who can't let go of their disappointment. The ones who enjoyed the SE's & PT just aren't 'good telly', & don't end up in the cut. It's not because of a flat-out agenda to trash GL, it simply has to do with what's worth actually including. Did you miss the fact that I didn't actually like this doco for that very reason?
I don't think you can pin this on the media, either - simple fact of the matter is that a lot of people went to see the SE's & PT, enjoyed them, then moved on with their lives. Yes, there's a vocal minority that have fuelled this notion that "the whole world hates George Lucas and everything he's done with Star Wars since 1997", but hardcore SW fans - pro or con-PT - are something of a minority of the total amount of people who went to see these films anyway. The majority of the movie-going public regard any SW film the same as the latest Spiderman instalment or the latest piece of rom-com crap starring Matthew McConaughey & the current airheaded bimbo of the month.
Complete trash and a wast of my time.
Never seen the film. Have heard of it, but the title alone has always given me more than a little pause to watch it.
See, I don't buy that for a minute. Not after reading some of his quotes about his feelings towards the fans who were downright vicious towards him after TPM came out. Lucas may have initially thought about having Jar Jar with Obi-wan or on Naboo, but I think that if he had, he changed it. Not because of the fan reaction, but because he found a better story for Jar Jar than being in the A and B plots. Hence it's Jar Jar that calls for Emergency Powers to be given to Palpatine, one that builds off of what happened in TPM. It wouldn't work if it was Bail Organa, since he was a staunch opponent of the war. And since Padme was going to Geonosis, that meant that it had to be someone tied to Naboo that would garner a lot of respect and a willingness to sign off on it. Do note that in ROTS, all three of the humorous characters are barely in the film. Jar Jar is regulated to a couple of scenes and one line of dialogue. Threepio never says anything funny in the film at all, which is unusual for him given the humor in TESB. And Artoo disappears after the first twenty minutes and doesn't resurface until Anakin has already turned and launched his attack on the Temple. Even the friendly banter that Obi-wan and Anakin display at the start of the film is gone and not to be found in the rest of it. No, Lucas did that on purpose because that's how he saw the story going.
I think that the reason that TPM is so light is because he was going to take us to AOTC, which was the darkest of the series. More so than TESB, with his established director and a strong screenwriter. Lucas even says that ROTS ends on a real downer and if not for the fact that we know how it turns out, it would be one of the most depressing endings of all time.
I agree entirely with Qui-Gon Kim: Lucas absolutely responds to fan and/or marketing advice. As Kim noted, one can just safely infer this by the drastic changes in AOTC (I remember all the promotional interviews where McCallum and Lucas were also saying, "It's got more action and less dialogue than TPM!!!")
But Lucas addresses his responses to fans at several places. On the ROTJ re-release, he flat-out states that he would've had Boba Fett live if he'd known that fans would later grow to love him so much. So any claims that Lucas doesn't tailor the movies to what the marketing people and/or fans say is simply ignorant.
I know GL stated that Fett's popularity was a surprise but I do not think he meant to what degree. Fett filled a role, was known and cool, but fans went rabid for more. Yes GL listens to fans but I am truly thankful there was no internet during the OT or else dumbass fans might have had far too much influence.
I don't think it's as much a matter of Lucas himself literally skimming through TFN or OriginalTrilogy.com or anything. I doubt that (and, in fact, a 2005 Wired magazine article specifically noted that he does not do this).
Instead, I think he gets the feedback from the marketing department and their extremely rigid methods of polling their customers and figuring out how to tweak products to maximize sales. And this was going on long before the internet. Just look at the marketing sheet in the 'Star Wars Vault' book about the title for 'Return of the Jedi'. It was insane how much thought they put into the Revenge or Return title. They get paid a lot of money for this, and I don't think Lucas pays them all that money for no reason whatsoever.
Well, revenge was a dumb title anyway.
I agree entirely with Qui-Gon Kim: Lucas absolutely responds to fan and/or marketing advice.
If there is one bad habit that Lucas possesses, he tends to listen a bit too much to the fans. In doing so, he compromises his own artistic views.
C'mon, I don't buy that for a second.
If Lucas was just doing things mostly with a surefire marketing angle or fanboys in mind, the whole PT would have been all about Darth Maul and Jango Fett being bad-*** and fighting everybody, and showing Queen Amidala in a golden bikini... maybe even a lot of different bikinis!
Fans: Darth Maul shouldn't have died in TPM.
Lucas: As you wish.
Looks interesting; added it to Netflix.
Lucas does listen to the fans, but only regarding superficial stuff, like Boba Fett, Yoda and Jar Jar, which are used to get people's attention. When it comes to the real, substantial stuff, the story that he wants to tell, he does not compromise.
Stories - they're not negotiable
I've never seen it, don't plan to see it. I'm one of the few people that appreciate GL, I will say the same thing for John Williams & Ben Burtt who in my opinion are the true back bones of the Complete Saga. I was one of those kids who didn't really love Star Wars in the 80s & the only one I had seen was Return of the Jedi. I can remember HBO would play it all the time as I was a big fan of movies like Ghostbusters, Back to the future, gremlins, goonies etc etc. Return of the Jedi was just an ok movie that didn't make sense to me. I do remember the numb numb song, I do remember the disco song in Jabba palace, I do remember Hayden not being in the end as a ghost. The Problem was Return of the Jedi made no sense to me when I was younger in the 80s. Then 99 came I saw the Phantom Menace in theaters. I remember leaving the movies like wow...I'm assuming this is the same feeling people had about A Hope when it came out. The Phantom Menace was just such a visual movie. It was eyeball crack. And I wanted to see more. I remeber going to Star Wars.com & posting on their forum, because I wanted to know how TPM related to ROTJ. I totally forgot that the pod racing kid had that same name as luke skywalkers dad & learned that these new movie were to tell how Anakin got put in the suit. There was a lot of filling in the blanks I had to do. I went & rented ANH, ESB & ROTJ, I knew nothing about a special edition or an original version, I just wanted to seemore of the eyeball crack I say in the movies. I wanted to see more of how everyone got to where they were. Just so happen the version I rented at video shop were the SE versions on vhs. So I never saw the older unpolished version espect ROTJ. As for the story I loved it. ESB was the best of those 3. I was interested in seeing how they were gonna connect TPM with ANH with only 2 movies. That's what made me a fan. The curiosity of connection TPM & ANH. I bought TPM dvd B I remeber watching all the behind the scene stuff, all the work that went into just that one movie. It made me really appreciate the brand more & want to s.ee AOTC & ROTS very much. To this day I don't see why fans disrespect TPM with all the detail & work that went into it. Jar Jar Binks was just one of many characters. I never jumped on the I hate Jar Jar bandwagon, that I honestly feel is closet racism in many regards. Many white people still do not like black people & the hatred for Jar Jar is apart of that. Again I just appreciate all that goes into these films. It was interesting to know why the old movies looked so good, not knowing they were cleaaned up & re edited. I think the think I noticed first about return of the jedi was the sarlac had a beck. Because I had seen that apart as a kid maany times. Was I mad & pissed off about it ? No.. People need to understand that not everyone was introduced to Star Wars the same way. Not everyone saw the unclean version that came out in theaters in WCZZ. Many people hate the PT, because it was not exactly like the OT. Me I just like the story told, I like how things connect & come together. I think the biggest beef those angry fans have is that the OT & PT can't exist without each other. Neither makes sense withou the other, just like how I felt about ROTJ as a kid . I didn't like it because it was all over the place & I didn't know who was who. There is a saying give a man an inch & he will expect a foot next time. I think this applies. I also do not want to become these angry fanboys that is why I plan not to invest in the newer disney films. I don't need to know what happened after ROTJ, Palpatine is dead, Yoda is dead, Anakin is dead, Obiwan is dead, Jabba is deaad. I don't really need any extra movies Its better for me to leave those movies a lone & focus on the completed tale I have with the 6. I have a bad feeling many of the PT haters are going to hate these Disney movies. They are better off not having high hopes for them, because in the long run these new movies ain't for you, they are for the kids & the kids have the right to enjoy them withouth being told how much they suck & how much better the complete saga was. I'm not going down that road.
That was a good read, CF! Indeed Star Wars is for kids and they should be allowed to love new movies without having that love sullied by the hate of former fans.
"The People vs George Lucas"? Isn't it more like "Angry Nerds vs George Lucas"?
"You have allowed this angry mob to twist your mind"
I didn't know it was possible
You sound like a person who can think for themselves. When I went to see TPM the theater was pretty empty, this was after the movie was out for like 3 weeks to a month & it was a 9am showing. I rember vividly there was also a group of older ladies who were in the theater, weird cause I hardly ever see the elderly at the movies. It started and at first it was ok, it wasn't until the scene with Padme & Nute did I really start paying attention & getting emerged in the movie. TPM was good to me because I wasn't looking for Darth Vader or Han Solo. I wasn't looking for Luke Skywalker, I was just curious seeing what the hype was about. The only thing I could compare to was memories of ROTJ from the mid 80s, I didn't watch the OT millions of times prior to seeing TPM. So I went in pretty level headed & I enjoyed the movie by accident. It was just so colorful & vivid. I have now seen the 6 hundreds of times & casually watch all 6 very often, that why I know I want like the disney movies, people can't handle change. If one only loves the Ot prior to the cleanng get the vhs or dvds from 2006, but expecting the oot to look as good as the OT IS WHERE PROBLEMS START.
"Angry Nerds with No Life vs. One of the Most Successful Artists of All Time"