Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Nub, Dec 12, 2011.
Thanks. Your review has ensured that I will never, ever watch it.
I was only looking for a good movie but i could not find one.
I'm shocked at how, after all these years, people still impotently cling to the "HERP DERP AUDIENCE EXPECTATIONS WERE TOO HIGH," excuse for why the PT hasn't been as well received. It's kinda embarrassing really.
It's not that expectations were too high. It's just that the expectations were wrong. People tend to cling to their expectations even after they've been proven wrong.
The internet and sensationalistic media are also to blame. In reality, these movies are generally well-liked, but that kind of opinion is no fun for journalists and the dark side of humanity has the internet in an iron grip.
"The dark side clouds everything"
^ I rest my case.
Due to the existence of this thread, and I had to watch The People vs George Lucas. I wasn't aware that the film existed. I remember reading about it being in production, but after that it must have gone off my radar. Well, that and the fact I've been off the Star Wars-hook for quite a while (about seven years). I thought it was interesting, and I definitely could relate to some of the people interviewed. I also don't think the film was that unfairly balanced, and there were some good points, like how Star Wars-fandom kind of bit its own tail with "the growing hatred" (paraphrasing), something I experienced first hand, being pretty aggressive in my bashing of the prequel trilogy, the Special Editions, George Lucas etc. back then. Well, something happened in the aftermath of Revenge of the Sith; I became a father, and my son is now turning into a Star Wars geek all on his own. I still seethe and rage inwardly as we watch, say, The Phantom Menace, but he does laugh when Jar Jar steps in poo (his favorite movie is The Empire Strikes Back however). All the Senate stuff is boring to him, and we always end up skipping those parts.
Anyway before I digress too much, The People vs. George Lucas I feel gives a pretty good view of the backlash against Star Wars - both arguments that I find valid, but also arguments I don't necessarily agree with (like blaming George for spending money on merchandise! lol). I also was never bothered by the title The Phantom Menace it's in fact my favorite, and neither was I ever bothered with the midichlorians as a concept (as a story device they don't work though). I think it is a worth a view for any fan of the saga. Of course, this film could never have gone into greater depth about a number of things, which is a shame of course, it only scratches the surface with regards to what went wrong, but still, it's not a bad documentary and it certainly isn't as one-sided as some here seem to suggest. My two Republic credits, anyway.
I'd argue that yes, expectations were probably wrong, but they were also high. Of course expectations were high, and that's why they were wrong - because the films did not live up to expectations. I would also like to say that the way Lucasfilm built up hype, they had a direct hand themselves in building up the wrong expectations. Watching that legendary first trailer for Menace, how could people not get excited? The trailer is practically built out of parts people wanted to see and if you watched it only once or twice you wouldn't notice the iffy stuff and go around all giddy waiting for that memorable scene where Qui-Gon introduces Anakin to Obi-Wan, which turned out to be rather flat once it was seen in context.. (IMO)
It was OK. I loved the song at the end. But overall, It really didn't do the job it was supposed to. Most of the movie was "I hate the special releses", "I hate the Prequels", "I hate Jar Jar!" And only a small part of it actualy acknowlged Lucas as a hero, as a genious. It could have been way better. Overall I was very disapointed.
I think the title People vs. George Lucas attracted to many haters, and not enough lovers, so it was practicaly impossible to actualy have an even review.
So i'd give it a 3/10
...which means that I win. Thanks, my friend!
"Thanks, my young friend"
Well I know personally a few people who gave TPM a second chance after they disliked it the first time and they ended up accepting it. But it didn't work for everyone, of course. So expectations do matter to a certain degree but not for every single viewer.
I saw it after all the backlash started so my expectations very rather low. I ended up liking despite feeling strangely detached from the characters (compared to a warmer approach to the OT). I think ROTS is the only prequel where I feel connected to the Obi-Wan and feel Anakin's confusion.
As a PT hater myself, I felt the movie did a poor job explaining the specific things disliked, but I felt it did an OK job at explaining that the reason the hate of the PT is so intense is because of our equally intense LOVE of the IDEA of Star Wars.
That said, the movie did point out to me that I had come to quantify my fandom by how much I HATE the PT/Lucas/whatever, (as a side note, this is the same feeling that every person I have ever talked with has, so the whole vocal minority thing is crap. The "vocal minority" is here on the boards talking about how awesome the PT is. I only know 2 people who even tolerate the PT) and that, spending all this effort to HATE something, was unhealthy. The People vs. George Lucas made me decide to put myself into "rehab" and divorce myself from all Star Wars. So I view the film favorably.
Now that the deal has gone down and we're getting new Star Wars, I am excited again. and hopeful. and actually watching some fan-edits of the PT and enjoying them.
The critics alrady disliked it, all the internet did was that it gave voice to the voiceless.
First of all, not all critics disliked them. Second, many critics disliked the first movies, too - a fact that is still frequently - and happily - overlooked by the media.
Third, the internet did give voice to the voiceless, but it's generally haters that feel the greatest need to make themselves heard over and over again. Why is that? Because they're the ones who feel the need for change. Those who are content don't have that need.
"I don't want things to change"
The critics might had disliked the first movies because thes kind of sci-fi franchises were new but they got used to it. Some people even argue that Lucas and Spielberg hurt the movie industry. If the prequels were good i don't see the critics used space operas would not like it unless they were bad. The internet is not just filled with haters, online campaings saved franchises.
There is no such thing as universally good/bad. Whether or not a film critic likes a certain film depends on whether or not the film appeals to the taste of said critic. It's all opinion. As I said, not all critics disliked the movies - and I'll guarantee that there are still critics who despise the first three movies.
Campaigning, whether positive or negative, is done to promote change. I stand by my view.
"I don't like sand"
The OT is not despised by critics who like space operas. The new on on the other hand...
1.) In fact, all three prequels received more positiv than negativ reviews from critics (according to online sources).
2.) I agree with you completley: Expectations weren't "too high", they were just wrong. For example, many fans wished for a "Han Solo character" in TPM and didn't get one. That's certainly not a high expectation, it's just a (wrong) expectation based on a specific preference. It's same principle with all other possible expectations.
3.) And I'd like to add: Expectations were diverging. Just ask "bashers" (civilized ones, of course) what's the most acceptable of the prequels for them and you'll get to hear all three movies metioned. So even the bashers aren't a homogenous group, they have different preferences and that by itself made it impossible for Lucas to avoid any disappointments. It was inevitable.
If your movie is good people will not complain about that because they have so many other great characters and performances to praise.
Not TPM i assume, AOTC wa about 5 out of 10 and ROTS was actually a decent to good movie.
I am shocked after all these years, some idiots think there is really a deference between the OT & PT, that pretty embarassing. Show any Star Wars irgin any of the six in any order & one will blatatly see they are all apart of the same universe.
Do you have an actual rebuttal or are you going to just continue your anti-intellectual posting style of "LOL NO U," in lieu of an actual argument.
Personally, I'd like to see what the director of PvsGL thinks about the fact that the Star Wars Saga is having a continuation from where ROTJ left off, disregarding Lucas' prior LOL TEH SAGA IS SOLEY ABOUT ANAKIN nonsense.
No, if you look on Rottentomatoes.com, all prequel movies have a majority of positive reviews.
At the time of release, however, the OT didn't get as good reviews:
Because of the same reason Voyager has a high IMDB rating. Fanboys flooding the palce.
Well i don't think TPM will ever be considered a good movie onlike the OT ones.
Calling it People vs Lucas was bad but didn't have to be bad. Because if I make something and call it creation vs evolution, I would not think that I was being a bad person for doing it, or even pro-life vs pro-choice. But I understand that it can sometimes be a bad thing.