The Phantom Menace Fan Commentary

Great post, PLJ. You are certainly a master at seeing the subtle nuances in the characters. It's these insights, that you share with us, that enriches everyone else's experience of the saga so much.

And you're so right about the roles that Anakin and Padme have in each other's lives. Episode 2 certainly established the actions we saw in TPM as character traits. I can't wait to see how GL plays them out in E3!

 

Bookedout visits the thread and hears wind blowing through the deserted streets. Then realizes everyone is probably over at Hyperspace because this is the first day of principal photography on EPISODE III!

 

I'm here- but I'm kinda tired of hearing only myself speaking Where are all of the 5 Great Sceners? ?

 

I know, PLJ, you are definately the mainstay here. I'll try to do better to post some new observations too. We've been re-doing our kitchen the last few weekends and it wipes me out. I can't even think straight by dinner time, just want to veg out.

I also need to PM a few of the "5 Great Sceners" who agreed to contribute and see what's up with them. Hang in there, we'll get there. Also, I've been pulling great observations from other TPM threads so the commntary, with your great help, is moving along nicely. I think it's about 17 pages now.

Take care,

Book

 

I'll be contributing to this thread. I'll start writing, i have a lot to write about. TPM is my 2nd favorite star wars movie

 

Look forward to your comments, JediHPD. I'm going to watch it later this afternoon. More to follow.

Book

 

Wonderful stuff here. PLJ that was very observant and close to the "vision" I saw in that small scene as well.

All the things in TPM between A and P, are followed up quite well in AOTC and its too bad some don't see it that way.

I am a very big fan of TPM but lately AOTC is started to effect me in a bigger way. I find the characters extremely interestings and their motivations so much clearer.

After TPM I must say I was fairly disappointed with AOTC because maybe I failed grasp it all but now things have changed. AOTC is a excellent follow up to the first chapter of the Saga and its all thanks to the latter, the Saga has taken a whole new meaning to me and an integral part of my love for SW. Im glad Im cherishing it.

 

Me too, glad you've kept a, well... open mind about it. (Sorry I couldn't resist). These movies have so much to offer I really do feel sorry for those SW fans that some how pass them up as substandard. Their loss.

I watched TPM tonight and took lot of notes. I caught a few things that I'll pass on over the next few days. Just need to read a bit more to make sure I'm not off track.

Book

 

When Anakin tells Padmé he's cold, and she answers that "space is cold"; does it link to Luke's feelings outside the Dagobah cave, where he feels cold...death? Is Anakin, after leaving his mother, feeling a touch of the Dark Side?

 

Anakin before the Council

Most of TPM is shot in daytime with bright yellows as the hues of the film. When Anakin is brought before the Council for the first time, the sun is setting and twilight is approaching.

Symbolically there is a lot going on in the scene. Anakin of course IS the Chosen One, but the Council seems to wish to ignore this fact, so set they are on following the Codes that they cannot forsee that they should do everything in their power to keep this special boy under their wings. The setting sun is the first foreshadowing of the Jedi's doom by their unwillingless to break the Code immediately.

Anakin is out of his element, he is cold, and lonely, and afraid. His confidence that he exuded to Qui-Gon and to the Queen in her Chambers about becoming a Jedi, vanished the second he actually came to the reality of the situation.

Of course he is also lonely for his mother and her love. Of course it is important to note that the Council was correct to note his attachment to her as being a possible problem down the line, as we know in AOTC. It is also appropriate that Anakin discusses his nightmares w/ OB1 and has his nightmares about Shmi at night- which is where darkness presides... further foreshadowing his eventual turn.

When Mace tells Qui-Gon that Anakin will not be trained, Anakin scowls w/ Fury at Mace. The cover of darkness has fallen over Coruscant, at the same time Anakin's darker, resentful feelings emerge. Also Qui-Gon dares to go against the will of the Council, again forshadowing their doom.

 

Is Anakin, after leaving his mother, feeling a touch of the Dark Side?

Ooh...that's an interesting idea. Hadn't considered that as a parallel before. Considering Anakin's fear of losing his mum is a real part of his fall to the Dark Side, you could have something there.

 

I think it's possible that it's a very subtle pattern that GL is weaving in the PTs. Fear is initially what leads to other, darker emotions. It's something also that separates the 2 trilogies.

Luke is not afraid after Owen and Beru are killed, he is hurt and sad, but not afraid of his fate. He tells Yoda that he's not afraid of his training, and Yoda insists that he will be. Eventually, though, when facing Vader, Luke is not afraid. Vader notes this and is confused. He can't seem to figure out a way to torment Luke into giving into his hate and joining him to the Dark Side.

Although Luke finally feels fear when he worries about Leia, he learns to let go of his fear at the end of ROTJ.

Anakin is always afraid. Afraid of losing people, of not knowing/or being in control of his destiny...in the end his fear destroys his soul. This is what the Jedi Council picked up on in the chambers, but they simply were unable to see far enough into the future to truly understand Anakin's path.

 

I watched TPM tonight and took lot of notes. I caught a few things that I'll pass on over the next few days. Just need to read a bit more to make sure I'm not off track.

Fantastic! I can't wait Booked Geez, will you hurry it up?

BTW, (not trying to awaken the anti-PT folk), but I just can't help but notice how the story and plot keep moving in TPM, especially after seeing AOTC initially. As of now, I can see the plot in AOTC moving incredibly well too! Woo Hoo! Im getting the feeling of magic that was SW in the OT.

With the PT, it was a different time and too many anti you know whos which I have notice think GL has forgotten how to make the story fun, but they don't realize, he IS making it really watcheable. GL knew that some won't be able to take the PT's in face value. I still think its a matter of time, when the first two eps. will be seen in a better light, if only they would realize the story IS moving.

Regardless of some of the "kinks" that have always been in SW.

Anyway, I think its really funny when some think GL has "lost it". Yeah, upto them, but they don't know what they are missing. *sigh*.

Who knows maybe more will see the beauty of the PT's after Ep. III.(because sometimes people need to get to see the final product to realize the PT's importance-but ain't holding my breath).

Im also not worried about boasting about how great the PT's are, especially since everything that is happening leads to what we know as the OT. And IT WILL. (albeit 20 years before between Ep. III and IV).

Wonderful stuff, (gee, am I repeating? So what )

 

Great posts everybody, now we're cookin'.

I do think you're definitely on the something, Ree Yees, with the tie between Anakin being "cold" and Luke feeling "cold... death" outside of the cave on Dagobah. I wonder if Luke isn't actually feeling his father through an echo in the force. After all, ESB is all about warning Luke about his potential to fall to the darkside, as Vader did. Sharing that feeling might be the first taste of what it is like to walk down Vader's path, as it were.

I also noticed that Luke's first comment upon receiving that feeling is; "Something's not right here." Flash back 30 or so years to Anakin on the ship with Padme and later in front of the Jedi Council and we get a hint that as sensitive as Anakin was, maybe he was beginning to sense that something was "not right" there as well. This is his first experience away from the warmth and security of his home with his mother, his main filter for his emotions. Now that he's alone he's susceptible to all of the ripples in the force. The cold he's feelng could be the imminent death of Qui Gon, the death of his mother in his arms years later, or possibly the foreshadowing of a dark legacy that he would come so close to passing on to his only son.

 

This is his first experience away from the warmth and security of his home with his mother, his main filter for his emotions. Now that he's alone he's susceptible to all of the ripples in the force

Well said Booked. I think that's the essence of this scene. Although the reference of Qui Gon's demise, etc is possible, Im weighing it more to Anakin's new path now.

Yoda said it fairly clearly later on, "clouded this boys future". No one at this point can fathom what is next for Anakin but definitely something to be cautious about. Not that one shouldn't trust him, but good guidance is essential.

I'd also like to add, that Padme here, covers him, basically thinking that because he's from a warm planet its a physical thing. However, it is actually more than that.

 

Good points, Openmind. You're right, the "cold" in Anakin was much more than physical.

Here's another little gem I picked up on last night. God, I really love this film!

Just after Anakin has won the pod race, Bib Fortuna, Jabba's aide, comes over and wakes him up. Jabba's eyes open wide with the realization that a long shot, Anakin Skywalker, not the favored Sebulba, has won. It's obvious that this is he first time he has really taken note of a Skywalker.

Thirty some odd years later, in Jabba's palace on Tatooine, Bib Fortuna awakens Jabba to the sight of another young Skywalker; Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight. Jabba also underestimates his abilities and this time, pays for it with his life.

 

Interesting. Didn?t even catch that one. Im jealous, LOL!

That gives me impetus to find one of those as well. I?ve not been watching TPM lately, been too engrossed with AOTC.

But here?s one, as I see it in anycase:

After Anakin wins the race, Shmi tells Anakin ? you?ve brought hope to those who have none?. It all began from the first step, a kind soul, who risked one?s life to benefit others.

Well as history has it, it was Anakin who destroys the Emperor and gave hope to the Galaxy as a whole. Its like full circle albeit in more dramatic and profound circumstances. It has always been Anakin.

Even the ?he can help you, he was meant to help you?could also work here. Shmi?s words ring true didn?t they?

 

Great observation, Open Mind. Anakin truly listened to his Mother when she said that the biggest problem in the universe was that no body helps each other.

Here's a little analysis I was able to work on tonight. I'm not finished with this one, so 'll simply label this as Part 1.

Dinner Conversation- Part One:

One of my favorite scenes of the entire movie. Here George Lucas effortlessly bestows a ton of expository information on us while keeping it interesting and at times, light hearted. This scene is so rich in character revealing action, dialogue and foreshadowing it really takes several viewings just to take it all in. Note that when viewed in chronological order this will be the first Skywalker meal we?re privy to as an audience. Although it is technically a slave?s quarters, the is a home warm in love, generosity, and family togetherness and it stands in stark contrast to the meal we will witness Luke having with his Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru later in ANH. Also, with the exception of the deleted scenes of Padme?s family in AOTC, this is an occurrence we will never see in the saga again.

GL answers the first question on everyone?s mind right away; why doesn?t Anakin and his mother simply run away from Watto? The human equivalent of a ?restraining bolt? has been placed somewhere in their bodies and threatens to blow them up if they attempt to escape. Anakin, a young man of action is already at work trying to solve the problem. We also learn that the Republic doesn?t function out there in the outer rim, seeming to lend credence to Luke?s future statement to 3PO that if there?s a bright spot in the universe, Tatooine would be the farthest spot away from it. Still, this desert world is the place where the force has chosen to rear it?s chosen ones. Scores of mythological tales, as well as the Bible, use the desert, or the wilderness, as a proving ground for developing the characters of those who would be called upon to do great things.


We further learn that Anakin has special skills, or ?Jedi reflexes?, that set him apart from all of the other humans on this barren rock. Qui Gon illustrates just how fast those reflexes are by snatching Jar Jar?s tongue as he attempts to snare another piece of food from a bowl across the dinner table. It?s a great illustration of GL?s filmmaking style. He not only tells us, he shows us a well.

We also discover that Anakin is as perceptive as he is talented. He corners Qui Gon into admitting that he is in fact, a Jedi Knight, and revealing the gravity of their situation to them. In a brilliant bit of foreshadowing, Anakin reveals that he believes that no one can kill a Jedi. To him they are all powerful and not subject to the natural laws of the universe as he sees it. Longing for that power so he could free himself and his mother, he further reveals that he had a dream that he was a Jedi and came back and freed all of the slaves. One day this dream will come true, although on a much larger scale than any of them could ever have imagined at the point and time in their history.

 

I don?t where to start Booked, that was most descriptive and fitting.

The desert/wilderness analogy is splendid. It wasn?t just knowledge that you caught there, but wisdom

Anakin, a young man of action is already at work trying to solve the problem

That's right. I also like Jake Lloyds potrayal of it, which I feel was just right. Its ? what?s the right word ?. adorable and amusing at the same time.

BTW that ?man of action? moniker describes Anakin?s natural trait, and it follows him throughout AOTC (usually to the detriment of his Master) and not surprisingly even when he turns and is DV. He?s a young man who?d you want in your team and rather not face if he was your opposition.

[That?s what I also think ?makes? the OT. The DV villain persona, stimulates the plot] Note: Im bracketing this as it probably belongs to a more appropriate thread. Sorry for the tangent.

?Jedi reflexes? ? You?ve said it. It can only be GL .

to him they are all powerful and not subject to the natural laws of the universe as he sees it. Longing for that power so he could free himself and his mother,

Astounding poignancy there. That?s awesome Booked!

Part II, part II!

 

Contrast "Nobody can kill a Jedi" with "I will stop people from dying!" You see that Anakin's hopes and dreams remain the same although as his eyes are opened to just how cold and harsh life can be, he goes from wide-eyed innocent hope to dark defience.

One line I absolutely love from the dinner scene is Qui-Gon's response to Anakin, "I wish that were so." Liam Neesom put so much weight and emotion into this simple line that it takes on such significance and gives us insight into what it means to be a Jedi, that it's life of danger, sadness, loneliness, and a little regret. You see this same world weariness on Obi-Wan's shoulders in Clones when he tells Anakin, "Dreams pass in time." They're seemingly simple lines that speak volumes. Sharp writing and terrific acting sell them.

 

Thanks for the encouraging words, Openmind. I still don't feel like I did it justice, it's such a great scene. In just a few minutes it sets up all of the action for the rest of the movie.

Durwood, you are so right on with regard to Qui Gon's words and you shed new light for me on Obi Wan's words from AOTC. I never really liked that like until now. It sounded very clipped to me. Now I realize that passing through those experiences is something that each Jedi must face, and overcome, on their own. The life of a Jedi is indeed very poingant.

I love Liam Neeson's portrayal of Qui Gon. He brought a great amount of depth and authority to that role. Casting him was genius.

 

"One line I absolutely love from the dinner scene is Qui-Gon's response to Anakin, "I wish that were so." Liam Neesom put so much weight and emotion into this simple line that it takes on such significance and gives us insight into what it means to be a Jedi, that it's life of danger, sadness, loneliness, and a little regret. You see this same world weariness on Obi-Wan's shoulders in Clones when he tells Anakin, "Dreams pass in time." They're seemingly simple lines that speak volumes. Sharp writing and terrific acting sell them"


I argee Durwood. Obi-Wan has definitely taken on his former master poise and style. He emulates him rather well.The acting and the way the story is written are superb but the dialogue well that's another story.

 

One of things about Qui Gon well potrayed by Liam, was that atleast to me he was someone you?d probably feel safe with. Despite being so called ?renegade?, he knew when to draw the line and is quite fatherly in his character. Also voice of comfort, if you will.

About the dinner table scene, I loved Jakes motions when he?s insisting and giving the idea of having the pod belong to Qui Gon and piloting it;note Jake/Anakin?s finger pointing eerie of Vader?s ?don?t fail me again? sort of thing.

I?d like comment on when Anakin noticing that Qui Gon was a Jedi, it was when QG took those pallies (sp?) Anakin saw the lazer sword (the original term wasn?t it) on the internal side of the robe. In AOTC when Anakin picks up the droid head, I can?t help but think that Anakin got the idea from that to subtlety show he was a Jedi, he knew Watto would see the LS! Just to give him a jolt he he!

With regards to ?dreams pass in time? connection, when Padme tells him that he had a nightmare, Anakin states the one of the tribulations of being a Jedi that ?Jedi?s don?t have nightmares? or in other words being a Jedi you aren?t supposed to be like a normal individual, even if you did, you not supposed to show it. Gives weight IMO to what Qui Gon told Anakin in more ways than one "its a hard life". Just wanted to add that in.

 

"I loved Jake's motions when he?s insisting and giving the idea of having the pod belong to Qui Gon and piloting it;note Jake/Anakin?s finger pointing eerie of Vader?s ?don?t fail me again? sort of thing."

Yes, Openmind, you're right! Anakin is a scrappy little slave kid who has had to survive by his wits and his nerve. Notice he formulates this plan and delivers it with confidence and authority. He's even figured out how to work the pod angle around Watto and unabashedly encourages Qui Gon, a Jedi Knight, to participate in conning him into believing it. Anakin's willingness to play fast and loose with the details is a character trait that will continue in AOTC as he tries to win Padme's heart with the "encouraged to love" speech.

In this TPM scene his boldness and resourcefulness stands out as the commendable survival smarts of someone who has had a rough life and has learned his way around the establishment. Later, under the watchful eye of Palpatine, these traits will be used to disastrous effect.

 

Later, under the watchful eye of Palpatine, these traits will be used to disastrous effect.

Again, I must touch on AOTC if you don't mind. When Anakin is faced with the death of his mother, he trusts his feelings and with that, kills all the Tuskens and the families.

This was his way, IMO for him to feel that he was invincible. This brash act, I blame totally on Palpatine with his buttering of Anakin by stating that Anakin must trust his feelings and then he'll be invincible and more powerful.

If Obi Wan somehow was there with Anakin, maybe the carnage could have been avoided. Guidance was integral, but too bad. Anyway, my own point of view.