The Phantom Menace is better than Episode 2

I just watched TPM from beginning to end for the first time in a few months, and I was surprised to find that I liked it a heck of a lot more than I thought I did. Maybe its the nostalgia factor, but TPM may actually be my favorite movie behind ESB. The little things that I used to think were flaws, I now cherish in a weird, campy sort of way.




Mace Windy,
too windy for spoilers!

 

Okay, I'm a little new here and haven't read all of the responses but here I go.

I totally agree that TPM is better than AOTC.

ANH
TESB
TPM
ROTJ
AOTC

That's my ranking. Here is my reasoning for TPM trumping AOTC.

For one, I've never really had much of a problem with TPM. Okay, it is a tad slow, but it is setting everything up. I think it achieves that very well. I also think that by being slower it left a lot of room for the next two. Episode II SHOULD have been better, but it's kinda flat to me.

Part of this is the tone, I think. TPM has a very "childlike wonder" about it. It's kiddie, just like Anakin. It functions on that level, and I think that had a HUGE part to play in the 30-40 year old jaded fanboys who seem to despise it.

AOTC continued this to the next level. It follows Anakin from kid to young adult. The tone had a sorta "teenage angst and lust" quality. Problem is, Lucas just wasn't very effective at getting taht across. Maybe it's because he's been a single dad for too long, and went to too many Oprah bookclub meetings and tupperware parties. The guy's handling of the romance is so restrained that the chemestry between the actors is just sucked away. It doesn't help that Hayden and Natalie were shot seperately in thier most intimate scene. I think he wanted the look of romance rather than the feel of it on screen.

Also, the effects. In AOTC there is so much bluescreen that it just looks like a bunch of stiff actors walking around in front of a backprojection of a Pixar movie. It's the lack of chemestry with the actors that sucks the life out of AOTC. That and editing. The middle of the film, when we jump back and forth between Anakin/Padme and Obi-Wan, is like watching a tennis game. The shifts are extremely abrupt and it loses momentum. TESB switched around fine, but AOTC is just jagged.

 

i originally was set on disagreeing with andyandy13,but after reviewing his statements,i can honestly say that i agree with him,with the exception of a few forgettable lines such as,"Now that's what I call pod-racing!",and,"You'sa people gonna die!?",now dont get me wrong,Jake Lloyd was good and all,but he just needed a little more conviction in his dialogue,and Jar-Jar? Come on,now that was just uncalled for George.In closing,I agree that TPM is indeed better than AOTC.

 

Problems I had with Episode I:

-Some of young Anakin's deliveries
-The Podrace announcer
-That one creature that farts (who doesn't hate this?)
-The stuff they make Jar-Jar do to come off as goofy and silly
-The fact that Jar-Jar accompanied them to Tatooine and Coruscant (they would've left his Gungan ass on Naboo)
-Not enough Watto

Problems I had with Episode II:

-Some of Anakin's lines (not delivery)
-Some of Padme's deliveries (not lines)
-Lightsaber fights not long enough (none of them)
-Jango's death (he could've died, but, I think it should've been a little bit more valiant, after all, Jango fought Obi-Wan to a standstill)
-Not enough Watto

I don't know if one's better than the other. I think they're both even. About 7 or 8 out of 10.

 

At this moment in time, AotC is better in my book than TPM. Not by a whole lot, but slightly.

TPM problems (for me):
Jar-Jar Binks (btw, I still like the Ewoks, enterprising, intelligent, cuddly creatures).
Horrendously boring podracing.
Anakin "accidentally" destroying the TF ship.
Gungans vs. droids battle.
Too little Obi-Wan.
Zero Obi-Wan-Anakin interaction.
Midichlorians and virgin birth (Luke didn't need all this to make him a great hero).

TPM plus points:
Intriguing beginning of great, complex story.
Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan.
Jedi order.
Palpatine/Sidious.
Maul.

However, AotC is very far from perfect. IMHO, it is the most uneven movie of the saga (or perhaps it ties with RotJ for that distinction). Some parts are great - Kamino, Tatooine. Some parts are terrible - Naboo, Padme.

Also, I have a feeling that once E3 cpmes out and we look at TPM and AotC with "new" eyes, TPM may turn out to be better than AotC (for me).

 

I've been looking at the PT in a different light over the past few months, and I gotta say TPM is pretty underrated. There are plenty of powerful scenes in this film, and I could see this as being better than AotC.

 

BaronFel88, I have the exact same feeling.
GL always says that later, when we look back on the movies, we will accept them more as they are. I watched TPM a while ago, and I was amazed they way I enjoyed it. Sure it has some kiddie elements, but I don't mind that much.
TPM moves (IMO) at break-neck speed, has a cooler lightsaber battle, and some powerful emotional scenes like Qui-Gon's funeral, and Anakin saying goodbye to Shmi. TPM has a more OT-feeling to me than AOTC.
AOTC has cooler action though, but lacked some emotion, except maybe the confession scene and Shmi's death.

I don't remeber who said it, but I agree with the fact that GL relies more on visuals than on acting and dialogue in the lovestory. He shows us beautiful locations and a beautiful Padme, but nothing really happens. I don't blame that on the actors at all. Many good scenes were cut out.

BTW, Hayden and Natalie weren't shot seperatly for the fireplace scene, they just splitscreened them out of several takes. I think that's why the scene is so awkward at some points, and makes me wonder what the scene is like in the way it was shot.

 

This was said before but each movie has different aspects that might appeal to different people. For myself in TPM I like the innocence and Anakin's introduction to new people and new settings and the outside world. I like AOTC for its darker tone and that,in essence, gets things going. Basically AOTC is a bridge to get to Episode 3, and I think it does a good job of setting things up for the finale.

 

I agree with you Wedsem.

 

Ep2 is way better than Ep1

 

I am going off of my very first impressions after leaving the theaters. I felt VERY disappointed in TPM, but felt much better about AOTC. There are a gazillion reasons why. The biggest qualm I have with TPM is the RUSH-RUSH feel of the movie. Everything happened too quickly for me, and no time was given to characters. Since we already knew most of the characters already by the time of AOTC, I felt a little better about that, and I felt the pace was less hectic. There wasn't as much story to cram into two hours either.

 

I like TPM and AOTC equally, but I do think the former is happier, and the latter is darker. I do think that Qui-Gon has gotten a bad rap for some strange reasonme. I thought he was one of the best characters in the whole series.

 

I think TPM is the better movie because of the very long lightsaber duel and the space war. But I had problems with both episodes:

Episode1:
-"Annie" sucks
-Darth Maul died...

Episode2:
-I wanted to see Star Wars, not Star Love
-Padme sucks
-Jango died...
-I hate Geonosis

So, it´s my answer, but I think both movies were great.

 

how could i forget, darth maul, how could GL kill off maul?! maul was the best thing to come out of star wars since..since..well lightsabers! I for one, would've loved to see maul kick some major kiester in ep.2

 

Luckily I like all five Episodes equally. Phew! Saves me a lot of time.

I feel sorry for those people who CAN'T appreciate these kind of movies.

 

IMO TPM is a horrible, horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE movie and a disgrace to the Star Wars name.

1) Jar Jar Binks is all over the screen (the worst character created for any series IMO)

2) Darth Vader is refered to as "Annie"

3) Natalie Portman is covered in weird costumes and white make-up while forced to act like a robot most of the time

4) The Yoda puppet doesnt even resemble the Yoda from the OT. Its absolutely horrid

5) Very little action in the film. Besides the pod race and the final scenes its basically a bunch of people talking about politics while Anakin keeps whining about becoming a Jedi

On the other hand in AOTC:

1) Very little Jar Jar Binks

2) Darth Vader is refered to by his real name "Anakin"

3) Natalie Portman is finally allowed to act like a normal woman with emotions

4) The CGI Yoda rules. Its a very good likeness of him.

5) A lot of action (like the original trilogy). Several battles throughout the film.

All great moves by Lucas. Its obvious he listened to the fans and made the right changes. Now if we could just get rid of Jar Jar completely

IMO TPM doesnt even deserve to be mentioned with the other 4 movies in the Star Wars series.

 

First off, I love all of them, however I enjoy watching TPM more because there is less stuff for me to laugh at. I don't laugh at the dialogue or acting, infact the only things that bother me about TPM are Anakins acting and Jar Jar at times. AOTC is easier for me to make fun of, mainly because of the dialogue. I can't really watch that movie any more without laughing at how terrible and unnatural some of it is.

ESB
ANH
ROTJ/TPM
AOTC

 

The dialogue is very intimate and raw and it's very shaksperian,which is the template GL used for the romance.

George15,

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for this insight! I would cringe every time watching the fireplace scene, and now I understand it. You just made AOTC 10X better.

Here's my 2 cents:

TPM: Brilliantly written, directed, and produced, However, Jake Lloyd is awful. "Yippee"! Need I say more. Please don't flame me for this but, I absolutely love Jar Jar. Hated him at first, but my son saw TPM when he was 3, and loved him, so guess what? He reminds me of Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy, Curly from the three stooges, etc.. The voice doesn't bother me anymore. Is TPM for kids? You bet, but whats cool now is how that very same innocent kid universe slowly turns into the dark corrupt SW universe we all know and love. Absolutely Remarkable.

ATOC: First half is a bore, second half rocks!
Actually its only the romance sequences on Naboo that I cant sit and watch. The speeder chase is a bit long too.

Bottom line - I FF through parts of ATOC, but not on TPM.

Yet when TPM first came out, I hated it, and when ATOC first came out, I was in love with it. I agree with an earlier post in this thread on how TPM got so much better after ATOC came out. I'm guessing that the same thing will happen to ATOC after ROTS comes out for me too.

I think we will eventually come to see that the PT overall, is a work of genius. Like all great art, it won't be appreciated until many years later. One day, I think the SW saga itself will be hailed as one of the finest pieces of story telling next to Robert Wagner's "The Golden Ring," and Tolkiens LOTR.
======================================================
Some of my favorite lines:

TPM -

Queen Amidala
"I will sign no treaty senator, my fate will be no different than our people"
"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die, while you discuss this invasion in a commitee" (I get a boner everytime she says that)
"I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war"
"Get to your ships!" (Simple but just totally cool)

Quigon Jinn
"There's always a bigger fish"
" Be weary, I sense a disturbance in the force"(Classic, way cool)
"Anakin drop! Tell them to take off!"
" The queen trusts my judgement young handmaiden, you should too."
"Credits WILL do fine"
"(holding Jar Jar's tongue)Don't do that again"

Watto(great character, beyond funny)
"Minda tricks donta work on me, only money"(hilarious)
"Ah Yes Noobian! We have lots of that unh"
"OOOH not Bad not BAD, anh, Noobian enh"
"Dont getta me wrongo, I have great faith in the boy, he's a credit to your race, but ah Sebulba there is going to win I think"
"I hope you didn't Kill anyone I know for it enh?"
"We'll let fate decide anh"(I love the look on his face after he loses the toss)

Jar Jar
"Monsters out there, leaking in here, all sinking and no power, Wena Yousa Think-an Wesa in troubal"
" Ahh Moi moi" (I think of this whenever I see good grub)
"hello droi-ohz"

Nute Guneray/Rune Haku (Did I spell that right?)
"This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them" "We should not have made thi bargain"

"You didn't tell him about the missing Jedi" No need to report that too him until we have something to report" (These guys just crack me up, I love em to death)

===================================================

ATOC -

Obi-wan
"Blast, this is why I hate flying" (One of my alltime faves)
"If you practiced your saber techniques as much as your whit, you'd rival master Yoda as a Swordsman"
"Once again you've proved....I hate it when he does that"
"Thats, why I'm here"
"Why do I get the feeling your going to be the death of me" (too funny)
"[what about Padme] She seems to be on top of things"

Anakin
"I...I killed them. I killed them all. There dead. Every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women, and the childeren too" etc...(chills)
"Someday I will be the most powerful Jedi ever.