The Phantom Menace - What does it add to the Saga?

Before I start, I really don't want this thread to sink to a Basher/Gusher war - hopefully we're all past that by now (just like Strilo says "Discuss the films, not the fans"), this is just an intelligent discussion about what Episode One adds to everything.

What does it add for you? What were some things that you felt before about the OT, but having seen TPM, they changed? Does it strengthen certain pieces of the Saga?

Ideas of any kind are more than welcome, but just remember to keep it civil

 

Watching the OT, you would've never thought Anakin/Darth Vader was such a sweet energetic gifted young boy. Plus no one would've ever guessed the whole "Chosen one" and born without a father and such.

Obi Wan is shown as the young apprentice vs the crazy old wizard. Qui Gon showed that you didn't always have to follow the rules to be a great Jedi. Also SW always potrayed the politics corrupt or full of greed, but it's quite the contrary with Queen Amidala. She goes back to her land to free her people and is willing to do with them and such.

I never really liked TPM after AOTC and ROTS came out, but it is a key part of the saga. Everything fits together, and thats whats so great about Star Wars.

 

The Senate session, where the "beautiful, but sad" young woman unwittingly hands the reins of power over to her children's tormentor. We'd always assumed that was Father's claim to fame--but his was comparatively inconsequential.

Neat story.

 

$431,088,301.00...US dollars.

"Despite a truly menacing character in Darth Maul, a wonderful score by John Williams, and a terrific fight sequence among the Jedi (with the exception of how absurdly easy Darth Maul is eventually killed), this movie flops, fails, falls hard and couldn't get back up with a walker and a crane." --Angry Seraph 27112K3

 

When I started this thread, I wasn't looking for another sarcastic and negative comment, especially from someone who always seems to bash the prequels. Seriously, do you even like these movies? All I ever see is you complaining about them.

Anyway, don't pay attention to that interruption - what does TPM add to the Saga for you?

For me, it makes Vader in the OT seem human, not like some mindless killer who eventually felt guilty. He was a sweet, kind little boy who gave without any thought of reward. What a striking contrast: he started out as a self-less, caring young boy, and turned into a selfish, Youngling killing murderer. But that sweet little boy was still somewhere inside - it just made his turn so unique and refreshing of an approach.

 

Also the backstory about how Anakin created C-3PO.

It will always have that thread on this site asking where Vader lowered the gun from Bobba to protect his childhood droid.

Then theres Anakins claim that he dreams about freeing the slaves, and in the OT he's left the galaxy enslaved to the Empire.

 

I would say that TPM contributed no less than any of the other films. They are all equally important.

 

RE: The Phantom Menace - What does it add to the Saga?


Yoda from TPM, "Everything"

 

For me it was a revelation about the status of the Jedi order before their fall. The way they didn't seem to care about slavery in the Outer Rim ("I didn't exactly come here to free slaves"), their detachment from the people they were to serve (residing in a literal "ivory tower"), the coldness they reacted to Anakin with - talking in his presence in the third person about him, and and deciding his fate without even adressing him. Yoda's "he is too old" ... we've heard that in the OT. Added a whole new dimension to the Jedi for me.

Yes, but the problems were also set up already: "I don't want things to change", and the idea that somehow Jedi are omnipotent and even death can be avoided: "No-one can kill a Jedi!"

 

I didn't write that, I quoted it.

What does it matter to you? If I like or love them, does it increase or decrease the value of my opinion...
just because it doesn't match-up with yours?

Perhaps you should read ALL 6,000 of my posts, and then you'll see I critique them more now, than I did back then. If i didn't love SW, I wouldn't be here.

Take your own advice, doc. I ignore posts all the time.

I concur that young Anakin was presented as a sweet little boy. Most little kids are sweet and cute to adults that don't have to parent them. And those parents' often glowingly talk about their own children. So Shmi and Anakin filled the typical single-slave-parent home in the GFFA. No big deal, really. besides the whole slavery thing felt really stupid, and poorly written, but I digress... Did anyone really expect to see Anakin run around as a nine-year-old power-hungry jerk? I didn't. He was, what he was expected to be: A small boy...

I don't know what TPM really brings to saga, or AOTC for that matter, because there is more that Lucas has to tell us. I will reserve my judgement until after the new movie.

 

Actually it could have been done much different. I don't know if you've ever read "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" - look at how Tom Riddle (11 years old at that stage) was portrayed in the orphanage. A little kid that tormented animals, stole from other children, and in general was shown as rather isolated and defensive. The perfect future villain. Lucas could have done it that way - he didn't. He even cut the fight scene with the Rodan boy because he felt it would darken the character unnecessarily.

 

I actually like the phantom menace.

Liam neeson truly makes the movie.

I also liked Darth maul. I would have liked to seen Darth Maul be in all three instead of seeing dooku then grivious and have had anakin fight maul in episode 3 and then take his place at the emperors side.

I rank the phantom menace saber duel 2nd only to the empire strikes back.

I also liked the john williams score duel of the fates.

I had hoped for an older anakin to start the trilogy but I actually liked the phantom menace and had high hoped for episode two. Attack of the clones is when it went downhill for me.

I also did not really have that much of a problem with jar jar either. He added a comedy element. He was annoying at times but I did not hate him to the point it ruined the film for me.

 

"Actually it could have been done much different. I don't know if you've ever read "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" - look at how Tom Riddle (11 years old at that stage) was portrayed in the orphanage. A little kid that tormented animals, stole from other children, and in general was shown as rather isolated and defensive. The perfect future villain. Lucas could have done it that way - he didn't. He even cut the fight scene with the Rodan boy because he felt it would darken the character unnecessarily."



I think you must fail to know the story of how Lucas said anakin skywalker was to be before the prequels were made and he said this all through the 80's.

Anakin was never to be some spoiled little kid or a person that had evil traits.

Anakin was supposed to be shown as this nobel great man/jedi who reached great heights and is admired and loved by his peers and looked up to only to slowly become seduced by the dark side of the force and have this TRAGIC fall from grace and sink into evil. only to redeem himself in return of the jedi.

A lot of people think the title "Return of the jedi" is regarding Luke. The RETURN is regarding Anakin. He redeems himself at the end.

 

I know that, @latverian33. But that isn't what @SithStarSlayer posted. He said that "Most little kids are sweet and cute to adults that don't have to parent them. And those parents' often glowingly talk about their own children. So Shmi and Anakin filled the typical single-slave-parent home in the GFFA. No big deal, really. [...] Did anyone really expect to see Anakin run around as a nine-year-old power-hungry jerk? I didn't. He was, what he was expected to be: A small boy..."

My point is that just the fact that Anakin is a small boy doesn't mean he has to be portrayed as innocent and "a sweet, kind little boy". It could've been done different. The reason why it wasn't done different was that Anakin's characters wasn't meant to be evil from the start, as you put it so correctly - and not that all small boys by their nature are innocent and kind, and therefore inevitably have to be portrayed like him.

 

I stand corrected. I misinterperted what you were saying.

I apologize.

 

SithStarSlayer, of course we welcome dissenting opinions here; it's what makes good debate. But please keep in mind that the question posed by this thread is "What does TPM add to the Saga?". You're free, naturally, to disagree with anything anyone posts. However, your first post, above, was a propos of nothing and totally off-topic. Please keep within the guidelines of the thread question from here on out.

 

No problem.

But at the same time I disagree with your assessment of the quote I posted.
Darth Maul, Williams' score, the DOTF and Qui-Gon were welcome editions to the saga in my eyes. The rest of the movie left much to be desired, and I felt the quote covered what I felt for the mostpart, save for leaving out Jinn.

I don't respond to every post that I don't agree with, nor do I call out other poster's unless I have a history with them. It seems to me that anyone who doesn't GUSH over Lucas and/or the PT, gets to hear about it moreso than those who do.

***
As for the quoted posts between myself, latverian33 and mandragora:
Lucas obviously wanted to have Anakin appear as a sweet, innocent boy... otherwise he would have done things differently. I didn't say I liked the direction that Lucas went in, but I understand it... and I too would have preferred an older Anakin. At the end of the day, Lucas wanted everyone to see that Anakin was just a good little boy in the beginning.

 

Yes, okay. I missed the initital point of the quote, which ended in a hardline excoriation of the PT as "failing and falling hard", as in any way stating what you thought was a worthy addition to the Saga. But now I re-read it, yes, Maul and the Jedi fight are mentioned as being positive aspects of the film. And it's good to know you like Q-G also; certainly those opinions are germaine to this thread.

My point is certainly not to shut down debates about the films; that's what we're here for. I just hope we can keep on-topic to each thread; there is, after all, an "Irritating scene" thread here in the Saga Forum which invites discussion from the other end of the spectrum.

 

Many times you'll hear, "without Maul, TPM would have been truly awful", to which I reply, "imagine TESB without Darth Vader". It would be our heroes running from a bunch of British guys. The villain makes the film, without a doubt. TPM didn't rely on Maul anymore than ROTJ relied on The Emperor.

 

I just finished watching it a a little while ago, so I'd like to weigh in.

I'll echo previous users in saying that the biggest thing TPM adds is a reference point. I never understood why Luke was so convinced Vader had some good in him (although I gobbled it up because ROTJ was my favorite movie as a little guy), so what TPM does is make it clear that Vader had innocent beginnings, thus making the story of his redemption mean more. It also sets up his downfall with the whole leaving his mother behind bit.

I'd also say that it's a fun movie, and that in and of itself should be enough. Maul was a great villain and I just about died from excitement when I saw Obi-Wan Kenobi, my favorite fictional character ever.

TPM was far from perfect, but it was made in the spirit of ANH - fun adventure with good guys, bad guys, and laser swords.

 

Qui-Gon Jinn, for me, is one of the best written, acted, and portrayed characters in the Saga. He's the Prequel's version of Old Ben - you can really see where Obi-Wan evolved from a young Padawan, to eventually becoming very similar to Qui-Gon. The Master/Padawan relationship in Episode One is one of my favorites of the entire Saga.

I also love how everything that happens in The Phantom Menace, has a great impact on future events. No matter how small something that happens is, it echoes throughout the episodes. Like when Qui-Gon meets Jar Jar - a small event, yes, but not only do the Jedi get led to Anakin with Jar Jar's help, he also provides the Queen an army to take back her planet, and inadvertantly unites two cultures. He's a very wonderful character, whose purpose runs much deeper than most. His scene with Amidala at the end is one of his best.

 

And, of course, he also gives us the Empire.

 

Exactly - I don't see why Chewie is more respected. He doesn't really DO anything - through Jar Jar, the seeds of most of the events of the Saga unfold, while Chewbacca.....um........growls? Yeah, great contribution there

 

Though it isn't on-screen -- and though this point is off-topic -- it's always been part of SW lore that Chewie is the one who talked Han into returning to the Battle of Yavin to save Luke's neck. Chewbacca is also intrumental in turning the tide in the ground portion of the Battle of Endor, when his piloting of the AT-ST saves Han and Leia from their predicament and allows Han to disguise himself as an Imperial officer, which wins the bunker. The Wookiee's contribution to saving Han from Jabba should also not be overlooked; and he was also one heck of a ferocious warrior, as seen in several gun-battles with Imperial troops.

EDIT: Now back to our regularly-scheduled TPM discussion.

 

Vortigern
it's always been part of SW lore that Chewie is the one who talked Han into returning to the Battle of Yavin to save Luke's neck.

You almost get a sense of that when Chewie is whining to Solo when loading the reward loot pre-Yavin battle.

You see what happens when someone goes off-topic? Arrghh!

What did TPM "add"?

It added the starting point. It also added the lighter side to things before the fall. That was important, IMHO. 3 "dark" PT films would've been too much. Now, TPM didn't have to be so light and juvenile, but it is.