Full Series The Plo Koon in TCW Thread (Now with Season 4)

I disagree that everything that happened in the GFFA was the will of the Force. It wasn't the will of the Force that Anakin became Vader either. People just don't always follow the will of the Force, and it's often just a matter of hindsight. I believe the will of the Force changes constantly, adapting to the situation. It's not to be confused with 'fate' or 'destiny'. But I guess we're getting off-topic.

Seeing the latest developments I'm really waiting for Plo to star in his own episode again, hopefully together with Ahsoka. It's too bad that he's mostly just a secondary character. I can't wait to see the follow-up to the development portrayed in the Citadel arc. But knowing this series, we're probably going to have to be real patient. (Still waiting for Death Watch to return, for one)

 

Yes yes! To Obi-Wan you listen!
Will of the Force is not good reason to be reckless....

Plo just is not character enough for entire topic- sad truth he is pretty boring after all- we could have own topic for Yularen even he is as interesting as Plo -is there any for Luminara she is much more interesting than Plo... or even for Yoda or Mace????.. what is this? "Pro-Koon conspiracy" you can like Plo that's ok.... but it's unfair other minor characters have no thread of their own- does even Fisto have? He is at least as liked as Plo and he has smile- that's more than Plo- that guy has no impressions at all ....

Plo is badass jedi but that's it- he has not much other characterization..... but he is getting more interesting now so maybe some day he is fully fleshed out as humane sympathetic character- this way he treats Ahsoka is actually first thing in Plo worth of discussion so i dunno maybe this is getting somewhere and Plo will have more characterisation than breathing mask and ability to be in vacuum of space......

I think it's ok we talk about other background jedi in this same thread Plo....

 

Now, now Swash. Plo is arguably the most fleshed out background jedi, and definitely deserves a thread of his own. Yularen isn't interesting at all, and you know it. You're clearly just baiting us now.

If you had a favourite character and made a thread for it, I wouldn't come into your thread just for bashing that character. If you don't like a thread, you could always, you know, not post in it?

Both Fisto and Luminara have their own threads, but they haven't seen any action in a long time. Plo returns more often, so this topic gets revived more often.

I could be wrong, but I think koonfan said it was okay if we discussed other background jedi too.

 

That depends on definition of the "Will of the Force" sounds to me you talk more about "Will of the light side" which is all going well while "Will of the dark side" is all going wrong- IMO real will of the force should be balance-it's both good and bad elements combined -it includes evil and despair but outcome is good- for example Empire made New Republic much better when people saw where corruption can go.... and everything that happens can be ultimately called "will of the force"- you have ability to chooce- but what if the Force already knows which choice you choose?- Is that free will.... yes... but it's still also just fulfilling already written destiny.....

anyway that's so depending about your view of the real universe as whole it's not something EU or TCW or anything should explore more- let it remain ambiguous.... but my view is that.... I'm open for new ideas but i still find some kind of predestination thing suitable for SW-universe it's like greek tragedy "This will happen" and it will happen- no matter how you try to fight against the destiny- "It is your destinyyyyyy!" I find it ironic Vader thought he can see the destiny he didn't- but somehow someone saw Anakin's destiny before as Chosen One- "nothing happens by accident" that pretty much eliminates the free will but let's forget that it sounds too limiting

There is many possible futures says Yoda- yet is there? How we can know if "other futures" were possible in the first place if everything happens only once- if there is no going back -no possibility to choose differently.... were those other futures true after all? Hard to explore that....

I think Vader was somehow will of the Force- maybe it was will of the dark side but dark side is part of the Force as much as light side and evil is part of the universe it doesn't remove the fact Anakin did wrong- not even jedi can understand will of the force always- if there even is any- it's more important to focus on doing right choices than thinking about something you cannot understand- instead of thinking about what is "the will of the Force" you should think what you think is right- Force will find a way to fulfill it's will anyway- it doesn't need your help and if it does I think you will know for sure....

 

No, you're not wrong, I did give the okay that we can use this thread for a bunch of other supporting Jedi.

Oddly enough, I actually think Yularen is interesting as far as Admirals go, and I feel he has a mix of pedantic traditionalism with a genuinely good nature. Certainly, I look forward to seeing him play 'exasperated British chap' to Anakin's 'popcorn American blockbuster hero', and since he's tied up with the main cast, you could argue that his screentime and development equals Plo.

I think at this point we've reached a phase where we seem to be going in circles, where one of us says something or tries to give one interpretation, then there'll be the other with its own take on it. The different criteria clash, go back to their corners, wind up for another bump. It happens with Ahsoka's thread as far as I can recall, so imagine how much more it loops around for a supporting Jedi.

Not to say that criticism or bashing is wholly bad, though. In fact, it was because of points like that that I brought up the latest issue. I just think that, with fewer happenings than characters like Obi-Wan or Anakin, these little arguments tend to repeat themselves after awhile. Compared to the main characters, we can't quite say "Oh yeah, but has these four other episodes and the movie that shows this". We have to say "He has these four other SCENES that shows this."

So Swash, you are indeed welcome here, including if it is to bring up what Plo does WRONG. It's just that background Jedi get so little screentime that our discussion goes in circles after awhile. Therefore, I suggest we give it a break for a bit and see if we can find another good discussion.

As to a new topic...I know we haven't seen much of him, but I'm liking Saesee Tiin so far. He seems to combine a calming presence with his no-nonsense demeanour at the controls of a fighter. At least, that's what I got from Dee Bradley Baker's delivery of his lines. From the wistful recollection of the Old Republic to his commanding the Wing Commanders to fall in.

 

No no no, that's not what I am talking about. The will of the Force is to be in balance. So, for there to be balance, Anakin had to wipe out the Sith. He didn't, and he became Vader. It wasn't the will of the Force that he became Vader. But once he did, the will of the Force had to adapt to the new situation. Etc.

You're confusing the will of the Force with fate, which takes free will out of the equation and reduces everything to meaninglessness.

But this really isn't the right thread for this...

Sorry, koonfan.

 

Plo Koon's head in "Padawan Lost" is different. Much more detailed and more close to the movies.

 

Indeed. That's what I noticed as well. I also liked how stern he was to Anakin

 

Well which character is interesting depends greatly on our own point of view (damn i use that as a cliché but it's so true in many things- my favorite SW-wisdom of all- you see i added it to my sign so i wouldn't have to use it so much )-

of course some characters are naturally more intriguing only because of their appearance- Admiral Piett was far more important in ESB than Bossk or IG-88 but which one is more interesting for fans- mystic lizard man or droid with cool design or rather normal guy in rather normal uniform? Yet i have been different from average fan from the beginning- I'm as interested in Piett as i'm in Bossk- IG-88 doesn't interest me really- it was droid designed to kill but apparently it killed it's designers also escaped and became bounty hunter- that story is enough to explain how he can be independent bounty hunter.......

Tarkin for example was great to have in TCW since i always found him rather interesting- what made him so twisted he can blow up entire planet?- Well now we know fight against separatists were one reason....
And really i found Wulff more interesting than Plo- ever since i saw him in ANH i was impressed by his looks and behaviour- unlike Tagge he is not really scared or surprised when Vader chokes Motti- he has cool white uniform and he looks very experienced and old officer- who is he- why he has white uniform- well EU said he is Wullf Yularen Colonel of ISB- seeing him in TCW was great....

Thanks- so i imagined since this is neutral "Plo in TCW" thread no "Plo Koon-optimistic appreciation thread" we can say "Plo is awsum" or "Plo sucks" it's just an opinion- yet i wouldn't say he sucks he is quite an impressive fighter and not everyone is sitting in council- yet i don't see much fleshed out character yet but more than we saw in movies -now he has voice and some opinions plus some jedi that are more special to him like Ahsoka- waiting for more revelations about his views, past and opinions before i judge him more- EU told he is trained by wookieejedi Tyvokka and Plo was good friend of rather rebellious Qui-Gon- interesting i hope we see more of that Qui was not especially favorite of Yoda at least- (When still living) so looks like Plo is not so strict in all matters as that little green guy.... his Ahsoka-relationship also supports he doesn't swallow Yoda's words as holy truth.... but as said hoping to see more characterization before more discussion....

 

I see it so that in SW-universe Will of the Force represents the fate also. And that your argument depends on definition of "meaning" my friend -saying predetermined fate is meaningless depends on definition of "meaning"- What is meaningful "why all this happens" does it have a meaning?-
If universe is predestined - i have no idea more than you is it- saying happenings are meaningless then is just negative point of view- you can as well think "wow everything needs to happen and it's honor to be part of it" and enjoy about possibility to exist...... and you don't need to worry about choices at all ..... "hey it was not my fault it was my destiny"

But we can still say this written "predestination" is just lucky guess after all- even if it's written beforehand "what will happen" how can we know it happened because it's written... or is it coincidence- only if that what is written will not happen we can say it was not true- but if it happens we can think it was magical prediction or simply that it was lucky guess....
Chosen One had destiny we see he fulfilled it so apparently SW is partially predestined universe or was whole thing lucky guess?....

Will of the Force may also be this predetermination -but i don't think it makes everything meaningless- but as long as we don't know if we can affect the future- it's better to focus on choices- just in case we can affect our destiny it's important..... if we cannot it may not matter but you have nothing to loose- if you don't do choices you have much to loose by trusting in only "fate".....

so yes in many cases believing in free will is better way to live- if we just sit down and say "Let's see what will happen" without doing anything.... it's irritating behaviour and has no advantages it's simply stupid then you overestimate your knowledge... but in the end we cannot KNOW if free will existed in the first place so we shouldn't focus on past or think "If only things would have went otherwise" that's just as stupid as not making choices..... focus on future and choices and leave the past be.... we cannot say if fate exists but if we spend all our time thinking about "What is my fate?" we just waste our time- ok ok off-topic but my lifephilosophy that is Whatever the truth is we can at least affect to our own opinion of it....

Fate may exists- saying "it doesn't" is just overestimating your knowledge- but we shouldn't use it as excuse to do nothing like people claim Plo did.....

I think will of the force is something they shouldn't reveal- looks like to me that saga is about will of the force fulfilling itself and all what happened has this meaning- so Vader has it's meaning too..... it was written beforehand as we saw in Ghosts- was it only future or were there few choices- we even shouldn't know- but Vader was only choice that happened in canon.... so how can we say it was not "meant to happen"?



not DP i ran out of time

 

I think they made it wider, and also gave it a different color. And they seem to have done something with the back of his head as well. He looks great (and older, if that's possible, which is good since we're going on in the timeline)

 

I still have faith that Plo Koon survived his starfighter getting shot down during Order 66.

 

Never- he may have brother living on the Outer Rim but i couldn't stand idea of Plo surviving damn it- can anyone in GFFA remain dead please?.... if they revive both Maul and Plo I'm gonna puke Plo is dead- just accept it- it's dangerous to give ideas like that to Filoni- he could definitely like that idea..... no way.... Plo can be cloned or he can ghost or anything but he died on Cato Neimoidia that must not be changed ever...

 

I really like Plo Kon's portrayal in the series - compared to the rest of the bunch of Jedi he actually seems like a nice and caring person which is how I imagined him to be after seeing him in the PT (don't know why, but still). However, I can't help but call him 'Uncle Plo' ever since his first appearance in TCW.

 

I think we do get an idea about that from the movies. The importance of choice is central to Star Wars. In the RotS audio commentary during the scene where Anakin saves Palpatine from Mace, Lucas stresses the point that this scene was included to show that Anakin really had to choose at some point, and that he made his choice consciously.

I don't think it's a negative point of view to say that everything being determined by fate is meaningless. It makes choices and free will meaningless, even character development. If everything we do is pre-destined then there is no free will and our actions become meaningless. Being destined to fulfil a certain role isn't the same as everything being determined by fate. In the end, even the Chose One chooses to bring balance.

I don't think there is a lot in the saga to support the idea of everything being pre-determined. In fact it's contrary to the message of Star Wars, in my opinion, because meaningful choices are central to the story.

 

Don't worry about Plo's survival, George Lucas himself personally axed that theory. It went something like this...

Dave: So, y'know, Plo's death. We don't know he died. He could have ejected with a parachute.

George: No, pretty much every Jedi there dies. If he had a parachute it would have caught fire. Then he would have fallen on a sharp object and died an even more excruciating death.

Dave: (they laugh) Oh, George. (high fives)

Okay, maybe not the high five part, but they joked around about it.

 

Yep, because it's okay for Lucas to change C-canon but he's not going to let anybody change G-canon, not even to be a good sport.

 

So some people actually wanted Master Plo to survive even though his death is implied as definite but never actually seen...how interesting. Now, what recent topic of debate might than line of thought apply to...

 

Well yes and no.... i said it's negative point of view IF universe is predestined- i dunno and i don't think we need to think about it so much- by focusing on choices we can ensure that we -at least- cannot loose anything by choosing wrong- that's message of SW yes but since in the end prophecy was fulfilled- so we cannot really say was there even possibility that it wouldn't be fulfilled or is it so that it was predestined, only the way how it will be fulfilled was not- that was about the choices- i prefer that idea- there is fates but choices affect them.... (as Yoda says "Many futures there is")
Anakin chose wrong in ROTS- but he was offered another choices later where he finally decided to choose right as we see in ROTJ....

that would allow both theories to co-exist by saying choices are important but you cannot affect all happenings by choosing- perhaps some things are just meant to happen and that's why you shouldn't feel guilty about every wrong choice- some may have been predestined.... what things exactly are predestined is not even important to think about- just choose carefully every time and you'll see .....

Perhaps i should be diplomat after all- i can accept two totally conflicting point of views and then blend them together where there is no conflict at all Yeah i have no idea about existence of destiny but neither does GL i think- it seems his universe has important choices but on the other hand Anakin still fulfilled his destiny so saying that it was not 'predestined' makes this 'prophecy' to be just lucky guess -not real prophecy that requires existence of some kind of fate or destiny-
"No mystical energy field controls my destiny" Says Han so for some reason captain Solo seems to think existence of entire Force is same as destiny hmmm...

I would say it was predestined good side will win the war- but how much evil has to happen before the chosen one chooses right was Anakin's choice- he chose the way of darkness and entire galaxy suffered more than twenty years of opression until he was redeemed when he finally fulfilled the will of the Force..... ok getting too far from topic... New theory....it was all Plo's fault!

or Gonk-droid's.... or monkeylizard's...

Someone changed G-canon already... George himself..... and whole Maul thing proved even T-canon can change G-canon I think Maul should be dead....ok too early to judge...

 

Are people still wondering why everyone calls him Master Plo?

Well it's clearly nothing to do with the fact that his surname is a racial slur for black people. Ha, imagine the conversation between Master Windu and Master Koon.

 

Haha didn't know- obvious reason.... but still they already have 'Dooku'

 

I, too, always figured that's why they never call him Master Koon. "Dooku" is also a racial slur??

 

*shrugs* Possibly Plo actually is his surname and Koon is his personal name. Some cultures (Japanese among them) put their surname first. Either that or he just likes a more familiar touch and asks everyone to just call him Master Plo.

 

Dooku is apparently a disastrous corruption of the intended Japanese word 'doku', meaning poison. Since then, it could be misconstrued as things ranging from yellowish fruits to obscene bodily functions.

I don't think Koon is his personal name, actually. Apparently, the second name is still the family name in Kel Dor culture, as Plo's family is referred to as the Koon family.

Could be the familiarity thing, like you said. Could also be a part of their culture where Kel Dor refer to each other by their first names. E.g., his niece Sha Koon would be formally known as Master Sha. I'm a little lacking in Kel Dor examples for how they're addressed, though, so eh. Whatever works. XD

Or potentially, Plo realised it was a slur in Basic and agreed to be addressed by his first name.

 

Maybe his real name is Sheldon P. Koon Aniway, Master Plo rocks! (i needed to express my feelings).

For a second, while writing this message, I have a idea. Ideas come somethings in the very weird moments of life. And here it is... If Plo Koon survives the Order 66 I want him with a patch and a Monkey Lizard in the shoulder as his pet