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PT The Point of Anakin Having an Apprentice

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by CircaCitadel, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. CircaCitadel

    CircaCitadel Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Hey guys. I'm new here, but I'm a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan.

    What I didn't understand with the "Clone Wars" movie and TV Show is why they gave Anakin an apprentice. It seems quite contradictory to what they've said in the movies. In episode 1, the council was reluctant to even let Obi-Wan face the trials when he was ready, let alone let him train Anakin. Then in episode 3, they don't even grant him the rank of Master. If he had already trained his own padawan, why not let him be a master?

    I feel like this was a very confusing decision.
     
  2. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    You aren't the only one who is confused by this decision, not by a long shot.
     
  3. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    1. I understand it was GL's idea to give Anakin a padawan.
    2. TCW is not over yet. The presumption is that for whatever unknown reason, Ahsoka never gets knighted, hence Anakin never achieves mastery through training a padawan to knighthood (and personally, I'd like to know where that idea even came from. I thought the rank was only earned by a demonstrated mastery of the Force, but I digress.

    Based on the unknown, ROTS still makes sense.




    For now.
     
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  4. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 2, 2009
    If you want to discuss it in detail, I'd suggest hopping over the the TV board. There is a lot said on this subject.
     
  5. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Well I don't think it was for any really major reason, I think it was to have a new character in TCW who wasn't in the SW saga, plus have a character that appeals to girls too since Padme wasn't gonna be in heaps of episodes of TCW. But if you have to put a reason behind her importance, then it'll be for Anakin to really prove himself to see if he's ready to become a Jedi Master considering he's supposedly the chosen one, but something must happen in TCW that makes the Jedi Council not believe he's ready.
     
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  6. LordMortis315

    LordMortis315 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Yeah, this really belongs in the TV thread.
     
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I'm hoping that she is shown to have an influential role in Anakin's fate somehow, maybe by exacerbating his fear of loss.

    If they put her in there just to have another girl character, I'm going to be disappointed, considering how many female Jedi who were in the movies that they could have made more dominant.
     
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  8. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 16, 2005
    They put her there because GL wanted her there.

    But I'm sure they also wanted a younger character for the demographics.
     
  9. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    But that does not make any sense to me. Anakin was recently elevated to Jedi Knight and on the heels of that, the Council allowed him to train an apprentice? So soon? Frankly, I see this as another poor decision on the Council's part. I still believe they were wrong to allow Obi-Wan to become Anakin's Jedi master right on the heels of his becoming a knight. And I believe that time proved that he was too young and it was too soon for him to have an apprentice.



    A padawan has to achieve knighthood before he or she is assigned his or her own apprentice. However, one has to successfully train a padawan in order to achieve the title of Jedi Master.
     
  10. CircaCitadel

    CircaCitadel Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Okay, all of your points do make sense. I still don't really like that Lucas put her in there.

    I didn't see a TV thread. Sorry about that.
     
  11. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    DRush76: Please advise the source of this "one has to successfully train a padawan to knighthood" to achieve mastery. This is something that I've seen, but it popped up from nowhere and gained ground and I honestly don't know if this comes from LFL or fans.

    The other part of that, according to what I've heard, is that there are TWO ways to achieve mastery (or perhaps 3 depending on how you count it):
    1. Train a padawan to knighthood
    2. Demonstrate a deeper level of Force understanding and/or skill (on a mission, in daily life, etc.)
    2A. Take a "master trial" to demonstrate deeper knowledge/skills
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Depends on the writer. Sometimes characters "promote themselves" to Master without input from the Council- like Jorus C'baoth.

    I think the Council (somewhat to Yoda's disapproval) promoted Yaddle to Master without her actually training anyone.
     
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  13. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    You're saying the EU author "does or does not"? In that case, I would hardly cite such as "canon proof" as many do without actually using that phrase.

    I have the same "concern" about the Jedi code. One day it just showed up on the internet and has since been taken as the "gospel truth" and used in arguments from the source of Anakin's fall to all sorts of things. Yes, it's in the Wook, but I think a lot ends up there based on "common acceptance" only I don't know for sure that *I* accept all that.
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Some things appear in the novels, or the WEG books, or the background books, before they appear on Wookieepedia.
     
  15. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Backpacking One Pack a Day Mod of New Films star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 16, 2005
    Sure, SOME things, but which things are not always clear (to me).
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Books like Jedi vs Sith: Essential Guide to the Force, The Jedi Path, and so on often reprint those things from the novels- expanding on them in more detail.
     
  17. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:

    George Lucas stated that the character of Ahsoka was developed for the series as a means of illustrating how Anakin Skywalker develops from the brash, undisciplined Padawan in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones to the more reserved Jedi Knight in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith.[2] However, Master Yoda (Frank Oz) worries about Skywalker's relationships with everyone from Padmé Amidala to Master Obi-Wan to R2-D2 to C-3PO by giving Skywalker his own Padawan would place the character into a paternal role where he would be forced to become more cautious and responsible. It would also give Skywalker new insight into his relationship with his own mentor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and explain how their relationship matured. Lucas stated that, having raised two daughters, he "knew something about the subject," and decided to make Skywalker's apprentice a young female.





    Ahsoka - she illustrates development
    /LM
     
  18. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Just found out one of the reasons was so Yoda could get Ahsoka to teach Anakin a greater sense of responsibility, which is what we can see happening throughout the seasons of TCW.
     
  19. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Yep. TCW Anakin is awfully different from his AOTC self; when I was still watching (can't bring myself to care in season 5) I was halfway wondering if the show was some alternate universe where Anakin never turns.

    Edit: And this is fine to discuss here as far as I'm concerned. :)
     
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  20. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi Host of Star Wars Character Contest star 6 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I was thinking the same thing! And tbh I'd like to see that, a whole different story where Order 66 never happens and Anakin never turns to the dark side.
     
  21. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Yoda explains it in the movie itself.

    First, the Council merely said it wasn't the time to discuss Obi.Wan's trials due to more pressing matter (protecting Amidala). Second, They were reluctant to let Obi.Wan train Anakin, not because of Obi-Wan's inability, but due to Anakin's clouded future. And third, we don't know if Anakin finishes Ahsoka's training.

    So no, there is no contradiction.
     
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  22. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    They wanted to make the story more complex. Giving Anakin an apprentice is a very interesting idea? Darth Vader once had a Jedi apprentice when he was a good guy? That sounds very cool to fans and to the story. In my opinion, it should've been in the movies. The prequels had a lot of awesome parts that rivaled the originals and redeemed it from many of the things the fans complain about, but the story could've been a little better. Ahsoka is an alien jedi. That's a pretty cool idea.
     
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  23. P.Sam

    P.Sam Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    May 31, 2011
    This is a strange idea. Anakin is supposed to be a Padawan till toward the end of the CW when he gets knighted and then the chains of events starts rapidly in ROTS where he finally fell in the dark side. The story was built that way, not only the books and comics of the EU but the films as well... There was no indication whatsoever that Anakin could have possibly have a Padawan. From what we see in the TV show TCW, this inconsistencie do not stop increasing because the character of Ahsoka fight on a lot on fronts and missions so she has an impact on the CW and on the main characters such a Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme ect. I think Lucas, Filoni and co. have a now are real challenge to explain storically, why there isn't the slightest mention of Ahsoka in the film. Right now, this doesn't make sense to me. They have to come with a credible explanation for that.
     
  24. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    It makes his character more interesting and complex. Anakin having an apprentice, especially a female alien jedi, is a very exotic and cool idea.
     
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  25. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    Because George Lucas has many ideas, and the prequels are ultimately able to convey a small amount of these ideas.

    Stuff like Sifo-Dyas.

    The prequels are extremely ambitious films. The content of the story can arguably be made into more films, but having 3 makes it work well thematically.

    I do not like how TCW impedes on the already established clone wars continuity that came before it, but I hope it can be settled.

    TCW is nice to look at, but from 1 season I haven't found much food for thought about it. Some interesting technology added to the universe and it looks nice, but it really isn't compelling to me.

    Hope the next seasons change my mind