Saga The point where you said, "Hmmm..."

The ELECTED Queen was 14.
Naboo elections are even more messed up than the American ones.

 

Further TPM defence imminent...

That's an excellent point in itself.

I quite forgot about that scene in ANH.

TPM, it seems, is plainly quoting that scene from its forebear.

You could charge that the ANH scene has a more charming, whimsical quality to it, I suppose. It is, after all, preceded by a relatively innocent interchange between two characters, and there's an appropriately stout-hearted burst of triumphal music as they cross the chasm.

Conversely, the TPM scene could be read as a bit starchy or awkward -- too "arch" in its loose evocation of Saturday matinee adventure serials like "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon"; too obtrusive a contrivance. And there's no inherent "sales pitch" moment as there is with Luke and Leia; it's just the bureaucrats of Naboo breaking back into their own dwellings and bobbing precariously on convenient wires shot from hand guns.

But that's also why it's fun, in my eyes. It's a nice blast of knowing action-cartoon goofiness. And as I noted before, it's one of a quartet of "elevation" moments: a meta-motif running through each of the four action vignettes in TPM's skittishly-executed kinetic climax. I plain dig it.

As for the contrivance, also noted before, of Padme and her entourage having such a device to hand. Is the matter of Luke carrying around a grappling hook, with a conveniently long cable, any less silly? And how, exactly, did Luke achieve a perfect "grapple", so to speak, and then follow it up with an Olympic-worthy swing (whilst also carrying another person of indeterminate weight)? Did those cold Tatooine nights somehow get spent with Luke spelunking inside of huge caves and lassoing dense stalactites? Where does his expert prowess with an improbable device like a grapple-cable derive? It's at least slightly more plausible that Padme and her crew have had survival training; and, in any case, it might be imagined that the guns are doing more of the work than in the Luke-Leia scene.

I mean, it's Star Wars, right? That cute little space wizard series with the pew-pew lasers.

Again, however, everyone has their pet peeves.

Everyone seems to be an armchair editor where TPM, and the prequels as a whole, are concerned.

I actually think the reciprocal "nice to meet you" from Anakin is rather poignant. There's a wry hint that Anakin and Padme are already competing for each other's affection (or, at the least, Anakin is) through the blandishments of declarative language.

"It's only because I'm so in love."
"No, it's because I'm so in love with you."

"We have searched you out because we wish to form an alliance..."
(the decoy, at this point, is interrupted by the "real" Queen)

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."

See the theme?

Anakin tries to make things real -- to cement them -- through speech and promises.

"I promise you."

But speech isn't necessarily to be trusted (look how the Emperor manipulates everyone through the tardiness of words).

Above all, in the immediacy of that moment in TPM, however, I think it's clear that Anakin is simply trying to gesture how much he already appreciates Padme; and this want, to prove himself to Padme, drives him to do some daring, charming, odd, and troubling things as the story progresses.

In TPM alone, Anakin convinces Qui-Gon to let him enter a podrace for his gain, gifts Padme a wooden snippet, falters on the landing platform on Coruscant as if already conflicted between the "Jedi" path (Qui-Gon waving him away) and the path of love (Padme beckoning him on), touchingly attempts to prolong his friendship with Padme when he briefly speaks with the Queen after seeking Padme out for what he thinks might be the final time ("We are sure her heart goes with you"), and, last but not least, blows away those Destroyer Droids pinning Padme and her people down, which leads straight into him improbably entering a space battle and destroying the antagonist's master control ship (and indirectly leads to his induction into the Jedi Order). It's a symphony of deferred desire, an "alarming chain" of accidents and calamities, portending banishment and catastrophe ("You were banished because you were clumsy?").

I draw my own conclusion from this tessellated weave (of which I have just given a tiny sample -- such as I see it -- above). The prequel trilogy puts a whole new spin on what we mean, or might mean, when we use and try to understand or describe forbidding concepts like love and attachment. Indeed, the prequel trilogy, in conjunction with the original trilogy, I'll contend, is a poetic treatise on yearning and motivation: an eccentric, esoteric examination of human civilization, consciousness, and the dark jewel of human fallibility (what gives strength arises from weakness; and vice versa). I mean, this is just a "literary" interpretation of the films, really. They are far more marvelous still.

I think the prequels are prodigiously allegorical, too. In fact, they make the allegorical nature of the originals far, far more meaningful, in my view.

I'm not sure I follow with your assertion that the prequels "try to fill in gaps when gaps aren't present". The prequels have a much greater elliptical construction than the originals.

There aren't gaps, but there are jumps -- great leaps in narratological and psychological space and time.

In contrast to your implying that the dialogue in the prequels is needless or wasteful, I actually see it as much the reverse: the dialogue is remarkably terse and honed down to a fine point, so as to say, or suggest, a great deal using a great little. Which, to me, is a great hallmark of art, and all creative expression, in general.

And then, just to make one further observation, there are countless occasions where something happens, and then somewhere else -- many somewhere elses -- the film, or films, ping back. In the example that we have, consciously or otherwise, just placed under discussion, the "anima" of the galaxy makes an affectionate statement to the galaxy's "animus", and then the animus fittingly responds (though, intriguingly, whether the "anima" hears the "animus" is a precious matter left hanging: i.e., Padme walks away without indicating, in any obvious fashion, whether she quite receives Anakin's parting response or not; which, if you think about it, is richly symbolic in itself).

Not that I'm calling you one, but this seems to be the way most of its detractors enjoy it.

I know. I've spent time on IMDb.

 

Thirty-minute edit allowance? Ack!

A bit strict for me.

I need to add a final set of observations -- to expand on what I wrote here:

To finesse that contention of mine:

For instance, consider how Han says to Luke, "That's two you owe me, junior", when Luke is recuperating in Echo Base (all these terms and situations are so symbolic!). And we see those two incidents that Han is referring to: saving Luke from Vader and allowing him to take that critical shot at the Death Star at the end of ANH, riding out into the snow and placing a wounded Luke safe from the elements in TESB until they are both rescued the following morning at the start of TESB.

Whereas, in AOTC, Obi-Wan and Anakin chew the cud over a situation that we never see and that has already occurred without our knowledge (an undefined mission where they, or rather, Obi-Wan, with Anakin effecting a rescue, fell into a nest of gundarks -- bringing the Han-Luke exchange to mind), while in ROTS, Anakin jocularly and proverbially refers to a variety of previous incidents where he saved Obi-Wan's "skin", only for Obi-Wan to possibly kid, "Ninth time, Anakin. That business on Cato Nemoidia doesn't, doesn't count..." If there really were nine previous incidents (or however many), none of them are shown. We have to infer that more has happened -- a lot more -- since we last "saw" them.

This superficial difference between the trilogies, and as articulated on this level, and this way around, isn't merely superficial. It signals something key about their aesthetic priorities, which are both disparate and unified. In the prequels, even "throwaway" dialogue and moments (in the AOTC and ROTS examples, there is obviously a "throwaway" element to the way Obi-Wan and Anakin tease each other), is richly infused/enthused with meaning. Some of it -- a lot of it -- is obviously non-obvious (or non-obviously obvious). Some of it hits you immediately and adds palpable texture (or all of it does this to some extent), while you have to ponder and work through the rest of it until an inner meaning begins to shine out.


The metaphor of the midi-chlorians centres the dense allegorical construction of the PT.

If each scene or frame is "a living cell", then each is also awash in very small details, symbiotically intertwined.

"Midi-chlorians are a microscopic lifeform that resides within all living cells."
"They live inside of me?"
"In your cells, yes. And we are symbionts with them."
"Symbionts?"
"Lifeforms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force."

One must cultivate a respect for the small and even the trivial for the larger picture to resolve correctly and hum with life: for the larger picture, in fact, to make good and proper sense.

Something about the devil, or the jinn, being in the details.

To really understand and revel in the whole, the "throwaway" turns out to be not so disposable, after all.

 

It´s in PT instead of in OT, I suppose. To some people, when a simiral moment is in PT it sucks, but when it´s in OT there´s nothing wrong with it I quess

 

Han Solo: You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There aren't enough scoundrels in your life.
Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm nice men.
Princess Leia: No, you're not. You're...
[they kiss]

 

When I first noticed the little green squares around the Tie Fighters in ANH

 

That tells me you saw the original, theatrical version. In the recent S.E. releases on DVD and Blu-ray disc the brightness had been deliberately reduced to cover any remaining "travelling mattes".

 

Well I've seen some of them on the internet, and one on DVD (By accident), though not in theaters I admit. They might be "toned down" In the S.E but they are most certainly still there.

 

Well, that kind of stuff you have to excuse as being pretty good for the times. The ships aren't dangling on strings.

 

When padme was giving birth with her back and head down.

Aren't women supposed to give birth in a reclined position?

 

Could that have been a factor in her death laying down while giving birth?

 

I always assumed the birth was induced. But yeah, the position wasn't great. The only thing I can think of is that med bay or whatever it was was only equipped with a flat bed and she was in no condition to be able to crouch or bend over to help with the births.

The 14 year old queen thing was the biggest problem for me too. At first I thought she was just in line for the throne and perhaps her parents died- fine. But then we find out its an elected position. WHY. At least make her 18 or something (even though I think that's still too young). But maybe there was some sort of cultural reason to have a young girl as a queen. Who knows.

 

Totally fits the vibe of AotC, especially Genosis. Everything during that final act felt like it was straight out of a 50s sci-fi serial.

 

For me, it was shortly after The Phantom Menace began.

 

You know .. I was ecstatic about the existence of TPM. I saw it multiple times and defended Jar Jar with my core being, just because after 20 or whatever years .. STAR WARS! Yay! I counted down the days to AOTC, went to the midnight screening and bawled at the ending as it was all soo tragic. I still have a soft spot for this film and I still do get the feels big time when I hear the great music BUT .. for me, it was when I saw the duel in ROTS, the Vader turn the whole thing and felt . not a single thing. When I realised I was bored at the arguably, the most climactic and emotional moment of the PT, that was when I put my toys behind and went on with a different life. Until last December..

 

I stopped being a true star wars fan in 2004 when the original trilogy came out on DVD and the transfers and new special edition 2.0 was revealed. Jar Jar in Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader's pink lightsaber & editing out Sabastian Shaw out of ROTJ. Star wars was dead to me for years and years after that and only the Disney buyout eventually made me reconsider my love for the series.

 

"YIPPIE"

 

When I was younger, I used to just walk out of the room during any romance scene in Revenge of the Sith.

 

That's it for me too.

Just can't describe how I felt when he appeared onscreen and started speaking...."Oh my god...No...".

And it felt rather faked as well.

I've since gotten used to it, but the first time was really awful.

 

The first time I saw the Phantom Menace. Still is my least favorite movie of the whole saga. However when I watched it I gave it (and Lucas( the benefit of the doubt - because Darth Maul was awesome. No they killed him off (a mistake in my mind) but I was hopeful for Attack Of The Clones.

No that movie started off ok - then we got to the point where Padme and Anakin are rolling around in the grass. That's where the PT really lost me.

I like everything about the OT, and TFA.

 

Call me a fanboy, but I've always hated Boba's death scene.

 

TheSlave1

What "death scene"?

Boba Fett hit the sailing barge with a side of his body (not his head) and then fell into the Sarlacc with his equipment mostly and otherwise intact. Since the Sarlacc doesn't instantly kill his victims (according to Threepio) and Fett had a considerable equipment advantage over everybody else who fell inside, I'd say that reports of his death were greatly exaggerated and constitute a myth.

 

The reveal that Leia was Luke's sister always bothered me. Unlike the revelation that Vader is Luke's father, this reveal adds almost nothing to the overall saga. It just ends up making some scenes (you know the ones) in the previous films feel incredibly awkward. Since we never see Leia develop her force powers or have another confrontation with Vader after the reveal, it doesn't really add anything to the story. People joke about everyone being connected in Star Wars and this is the one that I feel really started that negative trend.