The Power of the Force

Ok, this is sort of a different topic, so I hope I can get it across in a way that promotes discussion.

I was watching the movies the other day (aren't we all) and for some reason I just started wondering what it would be like to be able to use the force. I mean what it would really feel like. For a long time I focused on the mere "special effects" if you will of the whole thing. The jumping the running the lightsabers which seem intimately connected. But can you even imagine what it would feel like to be a force user. It must be incredible to feel like you can influnce reality in sometimes some really insane and poweful ways. And to feel like that nagging sense of destiny that I think a lot of people can relate to, is possibly quite real. And maybe the force even has a plan or will for you our events.

So this whole thought process brought me to the Jedi and the Sith, and I think for the first time I connected a little bit with Vader and Palapatine. Not on a moral level, but perhaps an emotional one. That scene where they are looking out at the Death Star gives me chills now. Here are two beings who are more or less able to control parts of reality, staring out at the beginnings of an Empire they created by battling the other set of people who had their abilities. It must be such an odd and loney feeling, but I am sure it is also alluring. It makes me understand how they could justify taking so much power. Wouldn't the lives of other sentients seem a little ridiculous compared to yours?

And lastly, this perspective I think makes the Jedi seem even more noble. As they must have felt the same thing, but were able to hold on to compassion and humility, at least in part.

Any thoughts on this? Or what having the force/or a destiny centerd around it's will woudl feel like? And once again, I am sorry if this seems scattered.

Cheers

 

If I had the ability to touch and learn how to use the force, I'd want to learn it all, sorta like Jacen Solo(even the sith knowledge). I'd imagine it would awesome and scary to have that kind of power.

 

Yeah I have found Jacen to be a very intersting character. Both his inital questioning of the force, and now his transition in recent novels, though I dont know if everyone has read em so I wont say more. But he is very interesting. It is nice to see someone who is not black and white, light or dark, but feels the spectrum.

 

Let's keep the discussion limited to the movies themselves.

 

Oh right.

Well in that case I see Qui Gonn as very similarly interesting

I was always fascinated by his character, his seemed to be utterly devoted to following the living force, wherever it lead him. With a conviction that was astounding. And in many ways, Count Dooku was his dark mirror. Similarly independent, but with a streak of arrogance. But I think they are both cut from the same cloth.

 

I'd agree with that. It's a shame we didn't see Dooku before he turned.

 

In many ways, it was interesting to see how many views there were on the force.

Very loosely,

The Jedi Order- they did not always agree, but seemed to have a degree of faith in the living force combined with a dedication to ideas like law and order.

Jedi Radicals- With Jedi like Qui Gonn on one end and pre sith Dooku on the other. Prodcuts of the Order, but seemingly compelled in different directions

The Sith- An order dedicated to control, and to the exploration of the darker side of the force.

But even within these categories there are a lot of differences. Yoda seems to have a different view than Mace. And post prequel Yoda and Obi Wan are very interesting to consider as well. As is Luke, who seems to view the force very much as a tool, as he was trained amidst a war and as a means to defeat Vader and the Emperor.

 

In many ways it seems similar in my mind to the superhero or god mythologies. The same types of ideas are being explored. I just can not think what it would be like to have such power, I can imagine it, but I dont know if it can sink in. To have to choose not to abuse power, whereas I have very little power to abuse, and so there is no choice. I like the idea though that this does not change morality. And one could argue that the moral choices of a force user are no different than that of a peasent. But the difference I suppose is responcibilty. The whole galaxy was affected by the choices of Anakin and Luke and the rest. Trillions and trillions of beings. But a friend of mine argues that this is only right as in his view force users do have a different moral responcibilty. That of Gods basically. They can change the galaxy and so they must. He even supports ideas like a just emperor, a more moral Palapatine. We disagree on this, but it is good to think about. Did Palapatine have a responcibilty to save the Republic? Did he let that go by pursuing his own power? I dont know.

 

It casts the motives of the Emperor and Vader in different light, hearing them speak of peace and ending destructive conflicts, establishing order and instating stability. These things caught me off guard, I must say, as in the OT Ben and Yoda spoke of the Dark Side as a path to unspeakable acts in the pursuit of power and domination. When I see things in my world that I want changed, I wonder if I am dark side or light side. Would I destroy our way of life and establish my own, based on what I felt was right, or would I gently lead others to do what I think is right? Is my own moral compass guided by a higher force, or does it stir from within? I believe this is the central conflict for the users of the Force, that they must choose to inhibit themselves or give in to their own passions because they weild so much power. It makes Anakin's fall so much more visceral, he was always coming from a very human place in all of it. He wanted to protect others, punish the evil, and live in peace, but his Jedi teachings deterred him from seeing these desires fulfilled. It makes me wonder if my own path would resemble his, or be much worse.

 

You have a great discussion going here!

Notice that Anakin uses the Force rather casually in AotC: first, when he's talking to Padme about Obi Wan, he can be seen levitating a small object in her apartment, and later, when they're having dinner, he levitates the fruit from and to Padme. He's not above using the Force for menial tasks which make him feel better: relieving boredom (levitating the ornament) and winning his love (levitating the fruit). These are delicate touches, but they're also something of an indictment: a Jedi really shouldn't be abusing their powers in this way. Then again, perhaps Lucas isn't necessarily against these applications of the Force, as they pertain to the mindset of one endowed with such ability, but at the very least, he seems to be making a visual statement about Anakin's nature and where it will take him.

 

Nice observation, Cryogenic. I always saw it as if he was showing how easy the Force flowed through him and how simple he viewed the training, and then he launched into the diatribe of how Obi Wan was holding him back, and that he was ready for something greater. Anakin is always ready to do something greater. If the Jedi had fostered him like a brother and not as a deadly implement, then he may never have fallen. They whispered to him in one ear that he was the Chosen One, and then tell him that they thought he was dangerous and untrusted in the other. If Qui-Gon had lived to train Anakin, things may have been extremely different. The trilogies made me think very hard on whether the Force was two entities, or one, and if the sides were not distinct places, but intentions. Is the darkside evil, or is it the magnitude of power that helps one to do evil? Is the light inherently good, or is it the intentions of the one who draws on its power?

 

Lucas makes it quite clear that the Jedi don't approve of using it in such ways (proof - when Ani says that Obi would be'grumpy' if he saw him float the fruit).

 

If we're getting into the Nature of the Force itself and both it's sides I have to quote BobaMatt from the Lit board

This was in response to the post

and I think that BobaMatt's right on the money.

I do think that the sheer power of the Force as sonofcoruscant noted would feel quite intoxicating if you allow that to consume you, and I think that it shows the Jedi as far more noble than the light they are at times cast in.

 

Interesting that the above poster compared being a Force user to being a superhero - having special powers, then decideing whether to use them for good or evil.

When reading this thread i immediately thought of Batman Begins and how Gotham is a desolate place, but Batman still doesn't agree with Liam neeson's - of all people! - proposal to destroy Gotham in order to rebuild it again.

Compare this with how Sidious & Dooku plan to destroy the Galaxy with a war, so they can rebuild it as they see fit. It is an evil means to a somewhat noble end.

Another superhero analogy will be in Spiderman 3 when I believe Spidey must confront the darkside to his own powers.

So yes, the superhero analogy does fit well

PS yes i know Batman has no super powers

 

I think it would be awesome to touch the force.
I personally would want to know all the possibilities of such power, much like Jacen, but I would lik eot remain in the light. I would probably be a grayih kind of Jedi, because if a bunch of Sith were to attack me with force lightning, I wouldn't bother holding back. But since these powers are rumored to increase the allure of the darkside, then I wouldn't want to dabble in them to much, and would instead focus on all the lightside powers.

 

I noticed I didn't address the actual power. I think that a fully realized Luke or Anakin would be impossible to defeat in a head on confrontation because they would have even greater power than people believed Palpatine and Yoda to have before the Prequels(that is that they are so powerful that they would no longer have any need for a lightsaber in combat, though I think both Anakin and would probably still use a saber, even if it wasn't necessary for their survival.) I also think they likely could take down an army on their own. They would truly be on a completely different level from anyone than each other and could easily take down anyone in the films or the EU including Palpatine and Yoda.

 

This probably has nothing to do with the subject you wanted to discuss, but in some way it kinda relates to it anyhow. It has to do with the experience of actually feeling and using the Force.

I was thinking, does the Force feel like a sort of extension of your organs, mainly your hands if you will, is that why people in the movies who use the force to lift, hold, push and pull things actually gesture with their hands? I know we've seen people who don't need to do it as well, but generally we see the characters using the force to manipulate things as if it was an extension connected to their arms. So does that mean that you can't focus on more things on the same time, just like you can't without the force either? So a species that is born with more arms would have an advantage because his brain is designed to coordinate four arms instead of two? IRL we can barely coordinate our TWO arms. You need to learn how to coordinate your hands when playing drums or to juggle. And when you finally do learn to juggle, you'll see that while you can juggle excellently, with one hand even, you can't start playing the drum with your free hand. Because you can't keep your attention on both of them at the same time. Even if you juggle the balls instinctively, you'll notice that the rythm of your drum-playing is gonna align itself with the pace of your juggling. If you start playing faster you'll suddenly start juggling faster, and if you try juggling slower you'll be playing slower.

Will your ability to focus and coordinate actions limit your ability to do so using the Force too?

If so, then if you're levitating five balls up in the air simultaneously, you could push them all in the same direction at the same time, pull them all towards a center, or push them all away from a center. Pull two of them back and push three of them forward. All with ease. But if I was to perform an independent action with each of them, say, write my name in the air with one, draw circles with the other, draw stars with the third, write the numbers 1 through 9 with the fourth and draw triangles with the fifth, then I'd have serious difficulties as it would be too hard for my brain to handle all those separate tasks independently.

Or will the Force not only be an extension of your limbs but also the capacity of your brain, so that given the right amount of training a jedi could at some point potentially perform all those tasks at the same time?

 

what would it be like to have the Force? what i imagine it to be like is mind magic from Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series. that there is power everywhere and you just have to be trained and gifted enough to use it. read the bookd, you'll get a better idea of what i'm trying to say.

Master Corlath out, may the Force be with you.

 

I think it depends on the Jedi. Someone like Scout(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tallisibeth_Enwandung-Esterhazy) it would feel like mostly just a slightly greater awareness(similar to how I think it would feel for many untrained Force Sensitives) however, when it comes to people such as Sidious, Yoda, Mace, etc. I think it's just as natural as using any of their limbs, however it's different some how. The way I see it is sort of seeming like a thought, but it exerts itself outwards. Now, that's partially based on the exchange between Luke and Yoda on Dagobah of "I don't believe it." "That is why you fail." so I think that the power of the Force is also limited to a large extent by your faith in it. I think this is most evident in the Skywalkers whom as I previously posted I believe have the potential for basically unlimited power, however when they don't believe they can do something, they simply can't.

I think that a Jedi definitely needs to concentrate for the more complex tasks(such as Luke's rebuilding Vader's castle using only the Force to pull an example from the EU) however I think for things such as a simple push or pull, that a Jedi can do it pretty much like we would reach for something, that is that it's instinctual and easily done even when distracted.