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the prequal EU

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Absolute, Jan 23, 2006.

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  1. Darth_Absolute

    Darth_Absolute Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 15, 2005
    i read somewhere on here that before the prequals came out that the EU was tearing up the events prior to the original trilogy so i was wondering what exactly (according to the EU) happened before the original trilogy?
     
  2. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    It really didn't screw too much up, except for the dating and a few minor things. Originally, Lucas had the Clone Wars set years back on the timeline from where they are now, and that has lead to some dating issues (mainly in the Thrawn Trilogy.) Also, the (thankfully few) accounts of the Clone Wars don't exactly match up to what we see now, and some of the information about the Jedi (marriage, training practices) isn't in line with what we see in the PT. However, much of this has been explained in newer EU sources. Another problem was the Death Star construction, which wasn't supposed to take place until under a decade before ANH. However, RotS shows it differently, and the EU has been forced to change its story.

    Luckily, the EU can explain its changes, unlike the completely revisionist history of the movies (and George Lucas...)
     
  3. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Often the EU is employed to fix George Lucas' eff-ups. I mean, I love Qui-Gon as much as anyone but...I don't buy that Obi-Wan meant "Jedi master who instructed me...oh so long ago...when I was around 7...for while"

    Then again, the EU messes stuff up that's IN the movies, i.e. making up Thame Cerulian. Yoda explicitly says, "My old padawan."
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    The younglings are all padawans to Yoda ("the padawan is right"). I think that, given the context of AOTC, "my old padawan" is far less specific than "the Jedi Master who instructed me".

    If we have to live with that, the Dooku thing really doesn't bother me much by comparison ;)
     
  5. Master_Uxi

    Master_Uxi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2005
    I find that if I pretend there are 10 years between Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith, the old timeline still works without any gesticulation... A decade long Clone Wars is more epic than a 3 year old one. Not that I have a problem with the retcons for the change of dating. "When EXACTLY did Palpatine's reign begin?"

    When do we even say something like WWII began? Usually it's September 1, 1939, but for some it's December 7, 1941. Depending on your Certain Point of View, you could say Jan. 30, 1933... If you were a German Jew, you might point out the Kristalnacht...
     
  6. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Hm...but then doesn't other EU contradict even that? I thought you weren't a padawan until a Jedi took you under his wing to train you personally. Until then you were just a youngling. Ugh.
     
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think you become a "padawan learner" once taken as an apprentice. I could be wrong though.
     
  8. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Wookieepedia: Padawan
    "A Padawan was a Jedi apprentice who began serious training under a Jedi Knight, chosen by the Knight himself from the ranks of the younglings."

    Wookieepedia: Youngling
    "Youngling was an unofficial title, referring to a Force-sensitive child undergoing the early stages of Jedi training - otherwise known as a Jedi Initiate."

    Wookieepedia: Jedi Initiate
    "Jedi Initiate referred to a Force-sensitive child undergoing the early stages of Jedi training - also known informally as a 'Youngling'. Typically, Jedi Initiate was used to describe those Jedi-in-training who were yet to become Padawans."

    Interestingly, however, The OS Databank Entry for Bear Clan says:
    "Prior to a young Padawan's pairing with a Jedi Master, she was taught in a communal group called a clan."

    Interesting that the Wiki articles definitively say that Padawan is a rank above the younglings, the OS refers to younglings as Padawans. Of course, Wookieepedia articles are written by fans, but it's obviously prevalent enough in the EU that, for most fans, the definition for Padawan is mutually exclusive with youngling. (Just look at KotOR: you begin as an initiate, then EARN the rank of Padawan.) In Episode III, the younglings are never referred to as padawans, though this may be for dramatic effect: it's more important to draw attention to the effect that Anakin killed children.

    Anyway, it's moot. Again, as it was with Obi-Wan, it seems a stretch to say that Yoda meant, "My old padawan...who I trained, for a little while, in the basics, for a couple of years, before giving you to Master Cerulian, who trained you." The possessive "my" implies that he was Yoda's padawan.
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    >> In Episode III, the younglings are never referred to as padawans<<

    They may have been once, again by Yoda- the "not even the younglings survived" scene has Yoda pointing out "this padawan, killed not by clones, by lightsaber he was" or something like that.

    Still, we have a couple places calling younglings padawans, at least one from the films, so there's certainly room for that interpretation (which, given what AOTC implies Yoda's role to be, seems the most logical).

    And "my" is no less possessive than "the Jedi master who instructed me".


    Anyways, we're a bit offtopic, I think, ha...


    To answer the quetsion of this thread- the main jist is the Empire was supposed to have been around for a couple more decades, and the Clone Wars themselves were further in the past by the same amount of time.

    The generally implied events most people thought was gonna happen (but weren't necessarily carved in stone by the EU) was the Clone Wars being about the Jedi and Republic vs clones and Mandalorians. Which, in many ways, still happens in the movies, just not as in such a straight forward manner as initially believed.
     
  10. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Yeah, and that's pretty important. There were supposed to be armies of mandalorians assisting armies of clones (I think a lot of people assumed Dark Jedi) in fighting armies of the Republic and the Jedi. Also, Bail Organa was a king, Alderaan was active in the war, and Obi-Wan served him as Bail as a general. You know, like how the movie says he did...

    And "my" is no less possessive than "the Jedi master who instructed me".
    You're right, and that's exactly what I meant to say. I don't like that Obi-Wan's statement got screwed over, too. In fact, "my" implies an even greater amount of possession. "Who instructed me" is vague...maybe he tutored him in math. MY Padawan implies a greater relationship than one of hundreds that pass through the Temple each year.
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    >>"Who instructed me" is vague<<

    When combined with the "the", though, it isn't, IMO.
     
  12. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Good point. I agree, but someone can say Obi-Wan didn't want to go into details with Luke, or just plain lying again...etc.

    "My old padawan," while more or less as specific as what Obi-Wan said, is less open to obfuscation on the speaker's part.

    Point is, the EU sucks sometimes.

    So do the prequels, though.

    And a big chunk of the middle of ROTJ. lol
     
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