The prequel trilogy is really all about Episode III.

Disclaimer: Since this thread is about the prequels at large rather than TPM, AOTC or Episode III specifically, I decided to post this here. Hope it's the right place.

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So, what am I talking about, anyways?

Well, after reading quite a few posts in many of the boards here, I've come to a conclusion about many of Lucas' creative decisions regarding TPM and AOTC. I'll address a few specific issues first, then recap it with a broad thesis on what I think the prequels are all about.


[i][b]1.)[/b] "TPM is too light-hearted. Why don't we actually [u]see[/u] the people of Naboo suffering and dying during the blockade?[/i]"

Well, it all has to do with Episode III. I've read how people thought George made the movie "too kiddy" in order to make more money and so on, and that one kiddy aspect of the movie was the lack of violence and suffering shown during the Naboo blockade. We hear the Governor speak of the catastrophic death toll, but we never actually witness the death of (apparently) thousands of innocents. No mass murders, no executions, nothing. Why? Well, step back for a moment. Think of the bigger picture. What is the prequel trilogy [i]really[/i] about? Are the people of Naboo a central aspect of the prequels --and the entire saga, for that matter? Is the Trade Federation (the group inflicting these sufferings) the [i]real[/i] villian of the prequels? If we were to see first-hand the grim reality of the Trade Federations rule, we would learn to hate them above all, and feel incredible sympathy for the Naboo people.
But, what is this all about? The prequels are really all about the decimation of the [i]Jedi[/i], not the people of Naboo. The real villians George wants us to despise are the Sith. After all, if we were to see all this horrendous suffering in the first film, how could the purge of the Jedi top that? How could we learn to hate the Sith if we'd seen the silly little Trade Federation do worse over a taxation blockade?
My point is, George Lucas is saving us for Episode III. He's saving our emotions, our sympathy, our hatred, for Episode III. If TPM were dark in this respect, how could Episode III top it?


[i][b]1.)[/b] "AOTC's arena battle isn't dark enough. Why don't we see more Jedi being slaughtered up close? Why are their deaths stuck into the background of the frame?[/i]"

Well, if you understood my previous point, I really don't need to explain this one. If we saw innocent, little, Jedi younglings being slaughtered in only the second episode, how could Episode III get any worse? If the prequels are indeed, as Lucas has stated, a progression from light to darkness, how do you get any darker than 200 Jedi dying in an arena killbox? Once again, I believe Lucas is saving us for Episode III. If we felt the Jedi had already been cruelly killed in AOTC by a governmental resistance group (slightly more evil than the Trade Federation), then what would make Vader's decimation any worse? How could we learn to hate Vader when a group of guilds and alliances with droids had done so much worse?



In the end, as I look at the two prequels created so far and be amazed at what a bold move Lucas made to reserve himself on two entire movies so as to make the third as best as he humanly can. Because, in my opinion, these three movies are all about Episode III. This is where it all "hits the fan." If you could call TPM and AOTC simple prologues to establish contrast between lighthearted joy and the darkness that is Episode III, I would say you are not far from the truth.

Either way, my real point is: if you think Lucas is simply "afraid" to show darkness, evil, malice, or violence anymore, think again. He's saving you. Whetting your appetite.

And when you see Episode III, you'll realize that the wait was all worth it.

 

I agree with Sithy.

We knew that Lucas had a "pre-story" back in the days of the OT. What did everyone want to see when he hinted that he might go back and tell Episodes I-III someday? Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. Anakin's fall to the dark side. Palpatine becoming Emperor.

Unlike 1976, Lucas knew when he started TPM that he was definitely making a trilogy. He had two films to set up the climax of not only the PT, but the saga. Personally, I think TPM and AOTC are wonderful films. But if there is only one film I could see since 1983, it would be Episode III.

And more than anything, I think everything in the PT sets up The Duel. The Trade Federation blockade, the pod race, the love story, the Clone Wars... all "set-up". All icing on the cake. (And sweet icing at that.)

 

I agree with Sithman as well.

There was a quote from Lucas a while back (where is MeBeJedi when you need him? where he said TPM is the intro piece, the set-up - so it's the most plodding, plot-wise.

In AOTC, the conflict is introduced.

And Episode III is the "payoff".

I think Lucas had to show the Republic before he could show the downfall of the Republic.

He had to show how the Sith work - in pairs, in secret - before he could show how they bring down the Jedi.

I still think it might have been better to make Anakin a little older in TPM and not have a 10-year gap between TPM and AOTC, but that's just me. It's not a huge deal.

And I still think the Gungans, while graphically impressive, could have been made more interesting - and bearable.

And my final bone to pick is that Dooku should have been introduced in TPM - I realize Lucas prolly didn't think of his character until AOTC, but it's too bad.

Other than that, I have heard that we won't really understand the PT until we see Episode III....

I can't wait.

 

I agree!

I am going to make an example.
In TPM Lucas had a small duel in the dunes between Maul and Qui Gonn, not much of the battle was seen. Lucas stated that it was "A small preview or a teaser of the final duel of the film." Then we all saw the final duel and were blown away.

THe Prequels are the same. We have only seen 10% of what we will see in Episode III.

Do not judge anything intill you have seen the entire work. You have not see all of the Prequels so how can you hate them?

--Seldon

 

There's also the question of whether or not the people of Naboo really were suffering and dying. Some speculate it was just a ruse to try and draw the queen out.

 

And my final bone to pick is that Dooku should have been introduced in TPM...

After the climax of the Theed lightsaber battle (and the rest of the Battle of Naboo), would the introduction of Dooku/Tyranus really have fit well? Remember, there is the parallel of TPM with ANH, with the basically upbeat ceremony at the end. I think the "mystery of the Sith Master/Apprentice" chat between Yoda and Mace, and the not-so-subtle shot hinting at Palpy is enough to whet the appetite for the following episode.

Now, the degree to which Lucas expands on the whole Sifo-Dyas/recruitment & turning of Tyranus plot line may impact whether or not it would have even been possible to really introduce him in TPM. The fact that we don't see Dooku on screen until halfway through AOTC creates more of a mysterious air about him.

 

I agree as well.
I already love the PT, but E3 is the one we've all been waiting for. It will make the whole PT worthwhile.

 

Hmmm...I thought the "problem" with Dooku is that I thought he was a fantastic character - but he didn't get enough screen time, IMHO.

In a way, he didn't even have to have any SCREEN time in TPM - they could have simply referred to a former Jedi Master who had left the Order - a political idealist who had created a stir talking about a Separatist movement.

That sounds intriguing, right? A Jedi Master who left the Order? Cool concept!

Plus, by the time we finally see Dooku, it's pretty clear he is a bad guy.

I know at the end of AOTC it's supposed to be a big surprise when Sidious welcomes Dooku as "Lord Tyrannus", but I wasn't really shocked at all. I saw the red lightsaber and the Sith Lightning. That was enough for me.

But that's really small bones I'm picking - for a while, I thought AOTC might be my favorite single SW movie. It's not, but it's probably 2nd or 3rd.

And I expect Episode III to be even more exciting. Which is why I recommend everyone to be as spoiler-free as possible.

 

Great post.

I agree with everything that's been said. I suspect that after seeing Ep3 I'm not going to go and watch A New Hope, I'm going to watch Phantom Menace.

I'll want to see just how everybody ended up in the mess that they are in.

The TPM end celebration will no longer be a celebration because we'll know for sure, the dark fate that awaits everybody involved.

When Naboo is invaded, it'll be more real because we'll know just what the Sith and Palpatine are capable of.

One of the most amazing things about the prequels is how many people think George Lucas doesn't know what he's doing.

This is a man who changed filmmaking, created the biggest pop-culture phenomenon ever seen, created a modern myth, and has broken new ground with every movie he's ever made.

 

I already like the PT and don't think episode III will effect my view of them. I also think that if people don't like TPM or AOTC then episode III will do nothing to change that; in face it could do the opposited. If Episode III turns out to be great for the people who don't like the PT so far they are going to think what the hell was George doing for the first two.

 

Another great post by TheFury.

The thing a lot of people don't get is that the OT was all about the Rebellion rising up to topple the Empire. The PT is a progression of the Republic crumbling.

Int he OT, relationships build up.

In the PT, relationships break down.

It's like two sides of a mountain. Things slowly start to go wrong in the PT, and it takes a step-by-step process to get there. Same with the OT, except things slowly start to go right.

I think people want to see a good, fun story with a happy ending. They are more accepting of that. That's not what the PT is about. It has a very unhappy ending.

 

I love that mountain top stuff, royalguard. I see it more as a valley, though. It all starts out high up with TPM, then goes downhill until we get to the very bottom at the end of EpIII. Then we move up on the other side with the OT.
It's like the middle of the story is some kind of cleansing fire that you have to get through on your way to glory.

 

"If Episode III turns out to be great for the people who don't like the PT so far they are going to think what the hell was George doing for the first two."

there are scores of fans who are already thinking what the hell was George doing with the first two.

 

That's their problem. Not Lucas' and not ours.

 

Another thing that I've heard people mention is how lackluster and short the AOTC duels were. And it's true! Each individual duel could not have lasted longer than perhaps 25 to 30 seconds, even though Lucas obviously had much more footage shot.

His reasons? It's all about Episode III, once again.

After all, TPM was about as good a lightsaber fight as we've ever seen. It was fast, intense, not to mention having a double-bladed lightsaber thrown into the mix. So, what would be the obvious next step for AOTC? Well, up the ante, so to speak. Throw in, say, Dooku using two lightsabers against Anakin and Obi-Wan perhaps, and then add a few verbal jabs of dialogue so as to up it a notch from TPM. Then maybe have Yoda added the mix a the very end.

Well, if we had gotten something like that (a bigger duel than TPM) in AOTC, what would be left for Episode III? When --I assume-- Anakin and Obi-Wan face off with only single lightsabers, one-on-one, wouldn't that almost seem like a let-down from the previous film? I think many people would perceive it as such.

Thus, that's why I think Lucas decided to tone down AOTC's duel --to shorten them, include very little music, and in general, bring them down a notch-- so that Episode III would stand out in all it's glory. So that when we see our hero fallen from grace, enraged by the Jedi and his master, battling it out against Obi-Wan with blue-on-blue sabers against a surging, bubbling lava pit with a rousing, adrenaline-pumping musical piece, we will be utterly stunned.

At least, I know I will.



P.S. I am completely, 100% (I don't even read the Prequel Updates in my Insider or look at any pictures) and all of this is total guesswork and it's simply what I have imagined Episode III could be like. Please don't disrespect us non-spoilers by bringing in Episode III facts. Thanks.

 

there are scores of fans who are already thinking what the hell was George doing with the first two.

And here they still are, complaining about them years later instead of moving on.

 

I'm not sure if I see the point of your thread. By definition, a story is about telling how you got to a certain conclusion. So every story is about its final part. I don't see why we need to make special note of it here.

As for Lucas "holding himself back" for EPIII I don't really buy into it, and am not even sure that's a legitimate strategy for anything.

 

I too am spoiler free.

After seeing Ep3, I KNOW I will go straight home and watch TPM.

Watching Anakin in TPM will be like watching videos of someones childhood after you've just been to their funeral.

 

"I'm not sure if I see the point of your thread."

"As for Lucas "holding himself back" for EPIII..."
"




That is the point of the thread! I simply think Lucas has been holding himself back, as you said, on the first two movies so that third will be able to shine out the brighter.

 

It also fits to have short but intense duels in AOTC, since it's all about Dooku trying to get the hell out of Geonosis. To have longer fights wouldn't give that stressed feel to it that we have now.

TPM was mainly about introducing the characters, making Palpatine the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and having an exciting conflict to open the saga with.
AOTC is mainly the love story between Anakin and Padmé, but it also sets up the Clone Wars, which will play a significant role in EpIII.
Palpatine's rise to power and the love story, of course, are nothing but setups for what happens in EpIII. It's in EpIII that the real action will take place. That's when we'll all get our reward for waiting this long. That's when we'll get what some of us wanted already in TPM, without realizing that if we'd gotten it then, there would be no point in making three episodes. Two, perhaps, but not three.

 

I agree. This is whatI have been waiting for ever since the announcemnt of a new trilogy back in the mid-1990s. Everything in the newer episodes is leading us to this one central issue: The Duel between Kenobi and Skywalker. As well as the Emperor in total power.

 

Great thread Sithman -- I agree with everything you're saying.

Lucas has built a solid brick wall with TPM & AOTC and in Ep.III he's going to knock it down...

 

>>>>There's also the question of whether or not the people of Naboo really were suffering and dying. Some speculate it was just a ruse to try and draw the queen out.

Sorry for going off topic, but there are enough clues for this to almost certainly be the case. Compare what we see Sio Bibble say to Nute Gunray, and what we see his hologram say in the transmission (that Obi Wan tells us is a fake);

Real Sio Bibble;

NUTE
When are you going to give up this pointless strike? Your Queen is lost, your people are starving, and you, Governor, are going to die, much sooner than your people, I'm afraid. Take him away!
BIBBLE
This invasion will gain you nothing. We're a democracy. The people have decided... They will not live under your tyranny.

Hologram Sio Bibble (from an online 3rd draft of the script, so may not be 100% accurate);

... cut off all food supplies until you return... the death toll is catastrophic... we must bow to their wishes, Your Highness... Please tell us what to do! If you can hear us, Your Highness, you must contact me...

Real conversation: Nute refers to a hunger strike.
Fake transmission: "...cut off all food supplies until you return."

Real conversation: Nute threatens that Bibble will die "much sooner than your people"
Fake transmission: "The death toll is catastrophic."

Real conversation: "We're a democracy. The people have decided."
Fake transmission: "Your highness, please tell us what to do!"

Draw your own conclusions, but I don't think that George "show, don't tell" Lucas held back on showing the death of the citizens because he felt a bit squeamish, when the only evidence that it happened is from a clearly fake transmission...

(To go even further off-topic, ever wonder why we saw a changeling in AOTC? )

 

Not only that, but when Obi-Wan calls Qui-Gon about the transmission, Qhi-Gon says, "Sounds like bait to establish a connection trace."

To me, it should be obvious after all that you pointed out as well as what Qui-Gon said that this is exactly the case. The people weren't suffering - at least not to the point where "the death toll is catastrophic." They were obviously being held prisoner, but not suffering.

 

I dont think so.
The Prequels are the back story to the OT.