PT The Prequels Strike Back: A Star Wars Documentary

No. You've got that somewhat flipped. I never hear anyone say, "they use just as many practical effects elements as they do CGI. That's what makes them great movies!" Such has really only ever been a counterargument to a specific (misinformed) criticism regarding the trilogy's FX makeup. But I do agree that, either way, overall storytelling should be the first and primary point of discussion.

 

You're telling me fans were as divided after ESB and ROTJ as they are now? That's laughable.

Luke, Leia were not on products because they were not in the films (save for a few seconds of baby time). The imagery used in marketing was the OT characters that were either in the story purposefully or shoehorned in. Battle droids don't sell Pepsi, but storm troopers do.

 

It is not, nor is it fair to compare the number of effects in films made in the 70's, early 80's compared with films made in the late 90's, early 2000's. Because the total number of effects and effect shots have increased a lot.
Say an effects heavy film in the 70's had 200 effect shots but an effect heavy film in 90's had 1000 effect shots.
Plus ANH had a somewhat limited budget. ESB had more but still Lucas had to keep it in check.
With the PT, he could afford a lot more but he didn't have an unlimited pool of money.
So comparing the total number of practical effects between the OT and PT isn't very useful. Because of what I just mentioned.

If the argument is "There were no practical effects in the PT." That can be proven wrong and quite easily. If the argument is "There were more CGI in the PT than in the OT." That can easily be proven correct.
But the issue seems to be that some say "There was too much CGI in the PT." Which is a fair opinion because there were CGI in the PT. It can't be proven to be correct as "too much" is a subjective viewpoint. But neither can it be proven wrong by saying "There were more practical effects in the PT than in the OT." Because that is a less than useful comparison. Both because of the ages of the films and the relative budgets of said films.

I have some films where less CGI would have been better. Ex, the film Spawn. In that film the head demon is a CGI critter and he looks awful. If they had limited him to just a voice or a shadow, then that would have worked much better. The film didn't need to show him and since he looked so bad, the film suffered. The film has other problems too but that one bugged me when I saw it.

Another not too good film, the Golden Child, also has a head demon/devil but this time as just a voice. And that worked better. That film has got loads of other problems.
But if someone wants to prove me wrong with Spawn and uses the argument "There were more practical effects in the Spawn film than in the Golden Child." That, to me, is not a good argument.
And the comparison isn't very useful.

Bue for now.
Old Stoneface

 

No, I don't think it will be a "they weren't great, but they were okay" documentary. With the scholars they are having in it (most of which can be seen in The Legacy Revealed gushing about the prequels), they will be really explaining how the stories relate to historical happenings (the the fall of various democracies around the world through history) and how they relate to classic mythology like The Odyssey, etc which will really demonstrate the movies' brilliance. I think it will be a brilliant doc and I can't wait to see it.

Also, when was the last time someone who produced an anti-prequel video on YouTube had PhDs and scholars in their video to help back up their points? You've never seen it, because most of the time it's just immature fan rage and uninformed opinions.

Bravo to The Ministry of Cinema for doing it this way. It's really going to come across as brilliant and professional and will put all of the bashing videos to shame.

 

Also Yoda, Vader, Chewbacca, Artoo, and Threepio were all in the PT. As for Padme, she has always sadly been ignored. From the parts of the films to the TCW. Even the EU. Aside from the AOTC novel and Queen Amidala journal, she's never even had a novel. That's why I'm pretty excited about that possible Padme comic.

 

I think this could be interesting if done correctly. With a rather large emphasis on "done correctly."

I hope Lancashire and Paglia follow through with their participation and take the whole thing seriously. That alone could make the project worthwhile.

 

Im excited about this! Personally I hope it turns out to be more of a celebratory exploration of the PT rather than the standard tepid PT-apologist route (the "ya we know the PT sucked, but hear us out for a minute.." shtick). Either way, they got my curiosity eagerly awaiting

 

Saw this on Twitter:

Ministry of Cinema:

 

Yeah and I said this to one of the producer Brad Weatherholt after I gave him my $100.

He said my email have him ideas to explore so I hope he does that.

They are at $9325 so should make the 10,000.

 

Ok...I'm going to reply to this, and please don't take it as an attack - I'm simply commenting:

sonnyleesmith, I know you feel this way about the films, and I'm not saying you've based your opinions off those of PT bashers or anything. But, don't you see how you are just basically listing what you think are faults with the PT based not on an opinion you've articulated, but instead simply based on the hearsay of some others? "The films themselves were lackluster as supported by millions" - and using statements like this to back up your opinion about the PT? Yes, I do see you acknowledge that millions also love the films, and you mention the fanbase being divided. Then in point 2, you mention glaring problems with the films, and don't go into detail - that's fine, but these are all opinions. You may not feel the protagonists were compelling, or that the plot had intrigue or wonder, etc, and that's fine. But those are not facts. I just think that on the internet it's so important to always make clear that we don't think any of our opinions are facts. If there were any objective facts in art, then art would be fascistic or stalinist, and I can't think of anything much worse than those two ideologies. It's fine to agree to disagree. Although I like a lot of things about the PT, I still don't agree with everything in the PT, but I'd still want to elaborate or clarify all of my points. I also appreciate that you do have your own opinions. But I like these debates to be interesting, and in order to make them interesting we need to analyse the films in depth, I think. I'd just like to know more.

Because to be blunt, I don't take anything a mass of people who ape each other on some unmoderated chat sites say seriously in the slightest. TFN isn't like that at all, which is why I like it. But that's what PT bashing is, and it's not intelligent critiques. If it was, then it wouldn't be bashing. It would instead be fair minded criticism, which would be much better. If only it was fair minded criticism, and then the whole thing would be more balanced and fair all around. Instead, PT bashing is, like all forms of internet based bashing, not anything close to actual critiques at all, but instead nothing more than the abusive, sneering, hate filled rants of those on the internet who hide behind their computers, bully others and generally act like douchebags. Again, I'm singling out trolls, not those who simply criticise the PT or other films in a reasonable and respectful manner.

Personally, I think that trolls deserve everything they get, and to be honest, the reverse, which is standing up for fair criticism of all the films and fighting back against bashers and jerks the world over - of all films, not just the PT - is very important. Bullies, trolls and flamers have power so long as they are enabled by good people simply ignoring them and letting them get away with behaving like they do.

And that's the difference. TFN is, by and large, a decent place which attracts decent and fair minded people. sonnyleesmith, you may not like everything about the PT (heck, even I don't like 100% of everything about it despite the fact that I rank all three of its films above ROTJ - I do like a lot about the PT though), but at least you are reasonable and polite.


Going back on topic:

In short, part of the problem with bashing in general is its unreasonableness, extreme bias and irrational, dogmatic thinking. Bashers of all films, music genres, and the like - the world over, not just in relation to Star Wars - are defeating themselves, by basically providing enough idiotic vitriol and abuse to self-articulate everything that is irrational, almost religiously biased and, I'm afraid I have to say, IMO, ridiculous and stupid about the dumb internet phenomenon of "bashing" (not only of the PT, but of anything) and all interrelated idiocy.

Hopefully, this documentary will be a breath of welcoming fresh scientifically based air, free of dogma and irrational groupthink.

 

Fair assumption, however it's not groupthink to share opinions. I appreciate your bluntness and rather enjoy the spirited discussions we can have without disregard for civility. Regarding my opinions, I've felt this way since 99 and tried so very hard to view the films from as many different angles as possible. Part of me wants to like it. There are certain aspects I do like, as evidenced by my thread stating what PT critics like about the prequels. But for me now, as has been for many years, I strongly dislike all three prequels. Not so much because they were not similar to the OT, but because they aren't told very well and the choices Lucas made left me scratching my head. So instead of scrambling to find answers, I just don't watch them anymore. So although it may seem like I'm bandwagonning, it's not the case.

Edited for content, because I don't proofread while I'm responding on my phone while I'm in the bathroom. Lol.

 

While I wouldn't say there is any clear fact that they aren't told very well, if that's your opinion, then of course that's fair enough. But why would you actually stop watching them for that reason? Unless you actually ended up disliking the films so much that you didn't want to see them?

And, again no offence meant, but how can you be absolutely certain you aren't being influenced by others at all? I know everyone is influenced by stuff to a point. As I type these words now, I am unconsciously calling on words which I have learnt over my years of growing up; as we talk, we are using words created for the English language...so we are copying others all the time, to one degree or another. There: a cliche "to one degree or another". A bit deep...but you see my point?

To be slightly more obvious, my point is that, IMO, in order to be sure one is being 'truly individualistic' in their opinions, one must really know one's self and always ask themselves if they genuinely like or dislike things due to an actual feeling, or to peer pressure. I'm not saying we should all have to intellectually analyse why we like or dislike something. But we should ask ourselves: "Do I just like/dislike this, simply because I like/dislike it? Or do I like/dislike it because I want to fit in with X crowd?"

But I'll clarify that by saying, sonnyleesmith, that I'm not accusing you of disliking the PT due to some idiotic trolls on the internet. You, like most people on TFN, seem rather too smart to be influenced by trolls. But what about critics?

In the end, what anyone else says means absolutely nothing with regards to one's own views, unless it's of importance in the real world - in art, everything surely must be subjective. Although, having said that, even if this makes me a bit elitist, I have no shame in saying that would place more trust in the artistic intellect of someone who listens to Wagner or Brahms than someone who listens only to modern pop music. But that's just me...and I don't do that with Star Wars. I don't think liking the PT or the OT is usually related to intellect, but more typically to preference.

 

My opinions are always my own. It was quite unpopular to not like TPM the day it came out, but I didn't like it. At 38 years old, I could care less what people think of me, and I could care even less about fitting in with the crowd.

And to reiterate, I dislike these films so much that I stopped watching them. I've seen them dozens of times and don't watch them anymore for the same reason I don't watch most sci-fi, I find them boring. This one is not only boring, but craps on the source material it was birthed from.

 

The first poster has been released:

 

So, the dark figure represents the derisive masses, and the defender is the appreciator?

The quote is a lovely touch though.

 

I kind like it! But I never thought that the characters would represent the divised fandom (the dislikers and theappreciators). My first thought was that the poster was similar to the upcoming battle between Kanan Jarus and Darth Vader in Star Wars Rebel's season 2:

 

Not at all.

The masses aren't derisive. They are the appreciative.

Unless of course you also thinks the masses despise the MCU movies, Harry Potter, James Bond, Batman, LOTR, Spider-Man etc etc?

The fans themselves are a fraction of the total audience of which the despisers are only a part of.

That really should be one of the main points of the whole thing.

 

I fully support this documentary, but I'm still surprised that they chose a title which alludes to a movie from the originals, rather than the prequels. Wouldn't something like Revenge of the Prequels be more relevant?

 

I thought about that, but I don't know I feel like "Revenge" might turn some people off.

 

The Prequels Menace or Attack of the Prequels or Return of the Prequels!

 

I think the title works against the purpose. It's not a war. Some don't like PT that's okay guys. Being dismissive of it doesn't make the fact invalid. Some love PT as well that's valid but hardly more so than the former. No need for such contention over different wiring and tastes. I hope this is informative and not simply a bash fest.

 

The same thing can go with one of the previous documentaries made by Alexandre Philippe, The People vs George Lucas. Even if Alexandre Philippe has said that his film was not meant to be one-sided against Lucas, I felt instead, after having watched the documentary that it was more a rant against George Lucas and the PT than anything else.

As I said in one of the threads here "The unpopularity and the negativity towards the PT: are people seriously missing out?" ( http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...-people-seriously-missing-out.50029548/page-7 ), I'm not so "nerdy" and even if I love Star Wars, I'm not a huge spender and I do not always let myself being always obsessed by it (we must not forget the reality of the real world).

The documentary The People vs George Lucas puzzled me. I mean, you are interviewing a lot of people and fans who now think that George Lucas cheated them and only want to make money over their heads (and for many "he ruined their childhood"), while in the other side, in the real world, there are far worst thing happening and far worst people than him.

I ask those fans and the critics the following question: if Lucas really was only interested on money, then why he donated the $4 billion Disney give him, when he sold his company, to education and to improve grades k-12?

I really hope that the following documentary, The Prequels Strike Back, will shed some light, be positive, and that it will be very informative, which it will be since there are many experts and professors who will be interviewed.

 

The latter might make a great sequel.

It's a bit early to tell, but I don't think that's the case. The many experts that are to be interviewed seem to be Saga fans. From what I can tell none are OT bashers. One of the experts, Chris Gore I believe used to be something of a Prequel basher, he was in the George Lucas vs the People. Now apparently he's had a change in tune. Not sure what exactly, but should be interesting. Same with the people behind the documentary.

Also from a marketing perspective, I think the title will work it's favor. Since many currently view ESB as the best of the bunch.

 

The problems those films fortunately don´t have.

 

The Ministry of Cinema has just surpassed the ultimate goal of $10 000 for the funding of the documentary The Prequels Strike Back (they are at $11 055). We will certainly have a great feature-lenght documentary on the Star Wars prequels before the release of Episode VII!