Lit The Prophecy in "Darth Plagueis" & TCW cartoon (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Brenapp, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    You could assume that the "ritual" was just part of the prophecy that indicated the necessity for a "chosen one".
    It all fits together perfectly from what i can see . . .
  2. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    The ritual wasn't needed though, that's the problem in my opinion. Before the novel it seemed that the Dark Side growing stronger was just the result of a 1,000 years of Sith working in the shadows, and there wasn't any problem with that.
  3. HEDGESMFG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2010
    star 4
    The ritual is interesting because it emphasizes the specific importance of killing of Palpatine himself, allowing the prophesy to be fulfilled even if the Sith survive. Again, the exact nature of this remains ambiguous, as Palpatine himself survives, but somehow the prophesy is fulfilled upon his first death. As I suggested earlier, perhaps the death of his original body was the key as his new bodies and their inherent instability couldn't maintain the force ritual's unbalance or something.

    The core idea is that making them responsible for the imbalance makes their death the key to fulfilling the prophesy, ties them directly to the prophesy (even if it was created before their birth), and by tying anakin's birth to their actions, he becomes the chosen one which the force suggests must end their unnatural reign.

    The prophesy predicted a time when an entity so evil would come into being that they directly cause the force to come unbalanced. A chosen one, more powerful in the force than any other, would rise to stop this threat. His destiny was to bring it back into balance. Ironically also living a life half in the light, half in the dark, and finally defeating the evil himself in the end. With the evil defeated, Bane's line of sith are gone, and the force returns to balance, despite new "sith" later rising. No Sith was ever as great as Sidious, however.
    Ulicus, Arawn_Fenn and Brenapp like this.
  4. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    So we have two discontinuities: The Darth Plagueis version, where Anakin's purpose as the Chosen One is to kill Darth Sidious and restore the Force to its proper status, which he ultimately fulfills. Then there's the Fate of the Jedi version, where Anakin's purpose as the Chosen One was to take the Father's place and keep Abeloth imprisoned for ever, which he fails to fulfill.
  5. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    You win some, you lose some...

    That's Balance I guess. :p
    CooperTFN likes this.
  6. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    It's how to reconcile the two approaches that concerns me.
  7. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    been mentioned like 20 times already . . .
    For example:

  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I think we can also call that the Lucas/prequels version, because that was the idea in the PT.
  9. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    I could easily accept that Mortis had nothing to do with the prophecy, except Denning botched it all up in FOTJ, where he specifically states that Anakin's destiny as the Chosen One was to take the Father's place in Mortis.
  10. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2000
    star 4
    Because the good guys did everything wrong. All those 36.000 years, they should best have stayed home and shut up. Nobody likes good guys.
  11. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    They do not. :)
  12. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    On second thoughts, the discrepancy isn't really Denning's fault. It's Lucas' for introducing the whole Mortis thing and making the issue of the Chosen One even more of a train wreck.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That depends on what, if anything, Denning was told to do by "higher ups". I have no idea what went on there so I don't know whose fault it ultimately was. Lucas has made enough questionable decisions over the years that if it turned out the whole thing resulted from his directives I wouldn't be too surprised. But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Apocalypse angle on the situation did not come from Lucas, including the possibility that it originated solely from Denning. In that case, I can't call the discrepancy Lucas' fault, because the Mortis arc as a whole did not indicate that Anakin's destiny was to stay in Mortis. In that case, Denning becomes just another one of the many who let Overlords lull them into a false sense that Anakin's destiny was being changed while essentially ignoring the end of Ghosts of Mortis. TCW is not unlike the Clone Wars books and comics released between 2002 and 2005, in that it really doesn't come equipped with a mandate to fundamentally alter the meaning of the films. The end of the Mortis arc ultimately affirms, rather than replaces, Anakin's destiny that we knew from the films. You'd think that if Anakin had the power to squelch dark side threats in the normal galaxy just by sitting in Mortis, if his destiny was to stay in Mortis at the end of the arc, then the Father would have said as much before expiring. But he did not. In fact, if anything he indicated the opposite: that Anakin was to fulfill his destiny by leaving Mortis and returning to the normal galaxy.
    Ulicus and Brenapp like this.
  14. Lumiyas_Head Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2007
    star 2
    From a certain point of view, the Father's role was to maintain balance and joining Anakin's two conflicting destinies could be when Anakin died as a result of destroying Sidious, he fulfilled the prophecy, returned balance to the Force, and with his death will maintain the balance? Reconciled?
  15. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    It's beginning to sound as though Denning should've paid a bit more attention to the episodes. Now we're left with a bit of a mess to clear up.
  16. Brenapp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    If Dark Empire is anything to go by though, Palpatine had already died several times before Vader offed him in ROTJ!
  17. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    Not anymore, according to Leland Chee. His death at Endor was his first death.
  18. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    I was under the impression that the Force was still growing more and more unbalanced long before the Ritual. Just that that one event is what pushed it all but completely over the edge, and that the Clone Wars and Order 66 are what finished it off.
    Last edited by son_of_skywalker03, Dec 21, 2012
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  19. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, that's what Luceno's book says, and what was established before.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That's what it seems to say. The exact verbiage is a little vague.
  21. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    And we can also call it the prophecy, which trumps Denning's ill-thought out and offensive to the Saga and Mortis episodes (who'd have thought that was possible?), prophecy of Anakin taking the Father's place.

    Mortis is fine on its own as episodes of the Clone Wars; reiteration of Anakin's fate and an exploration of metaphysics for those who enjoy it. I disliked it personally, but I disliked Denning's uber-literal interpretation of the events from that trilogy in Apocalypse (seems rather fitting now) even more.
    Zeta1127 likes this.
  22. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    With how often we moan about TCW taking ideas from the EU and using them wrong like Ryloth's orbit, in Mortis's case I for some reason can foresee TCW taking Denning's idea and for the very first time being faithful to it just to mock us. :p

    "We respected your EU this time!"
    "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Dec 22, 2012
  23. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    [face_laugh]