Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Perfect_Dark, May 19, 2001.
so ah PD um who says the line(s) in your new upcoming sig?
it's going to be another ANAKIN sig!
i think ALOT will be said about it when i do it!
alright anakin's lines (besides yoda's) always seem to be the most intriguing!
this one is ANAKIN to OBI-WAN, very cool..
you'll think alot about the movies 4,5,6 when you read it.... VERY COOL!
a bit of foreshadowing going on in there?
Oh man! Im excited, that sounds very intriguing. Cant wait. Did i mention PD rocks?
PD, you're such a tease!
Here are my thoughts. There is a Light side and a Dark side. Yoda can see the future, but dark times are ahead that are dominated by the Dark Side, so Yoda can't see. So I still think the Sith are tunnel-visioned because (as I said before) Palpatine can't see defeats!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Palpatine, in the Classics, is prone to foreseeing wrong! Now about Luke being able to see the future. I don't think he does (except on Dagobah)!! And the reason he could see the future is because he was IN the dark times. Now I agree Vader might have lifted the Palpatine Blindfold for Luke to see his friends pain BUT not the trap! So the Sith are tunneled-visioned and prone to error but the Jedi are pretty accurate, but there is danger when Jedi probe the Dark Side.
Now people may say that Palpatine can see the future just fine, but the truth is he can deceive the Jedi but he can't PERCEIVE the future (at least not very good)!! I really want people to get that the Sith are not just all powerful because they have no rules! There are serious penaltys. I believe the inaccuracy of future-telling is one of them.
Always in motion is the future...
Do the Jedi see a possible future and acknowledge that it is only a possible future? They realize that while they can see a possible future, they don't know if their actions will change or soldify that future.
When the Sith see a possible future, they do everything in their power to make sure it happens (or doesn't). This is actually why I think Palpatine tries to have Amidala killed: he has seen a future where she is responsible for his death--and would like to prevent that.
I just thought of something!!!! Luke doesn't see the future at Dagobah!!! NOw I could be wrong but he sees the NEAR future. Maybe thats why he can see through the Dark Side. And also the fact that he is IN the Dark times. but I have been thinking about that too, Master Chbel. " Always in motion is thae future".
I wonder about that.
Nice thread PD, some gret speculation going on.
PD: " i have
-= THE BEST =-
sig that i'm going to use... but not now, in a few days or so!
this one is geting OLD
this is soooo cool
Alright PD! It'll make us reconsider the OT, huh? Wow, it MUST be good... Can't wait to see it!!
I think all this new insight into the Force should quell everybody who thought Lucas didn't know what he was doing when he came up with midichlorians (I'm not one of them though)!
This is so tantalizing! There's this deep sense of impending doom in these lines! Yoda is definately shaping up to be someone not to be messed with as well!
I feel bad for the Jedi now. They realyl don't have much of an idea of what's gonna come do they? This also makes the Sith seem so much more deadly in new ways!
Ur right. I feel sorry for the Jedi as well. I luv how Lucas is crafting the series. Darth Sidious truly rocks!
He is the worst evil in the galaxy. He is everyone and he is no one.
Lucas created one of the best bad guys in history. A bad guy who can manipulate, dominate, and who can destroy you slowly without you even knowing the entire time.
No wonder Sideous thought Endor was in the bag! Look at everything else he did!
Pesky Chosen Ones turning back to the good side. . .
Don't know how many times I've said this but....
Palpatine is da man
PD, look forward to the sig....
This is what we have so far:
In dark times nothing is what it appears.
Why couldn't we see the attack on the Senator?
Masking the future, is this disturbance in the force.
And only thoes who have turned to the Dark Side can sense the possibilities of the future. Only going through the Dark Side can we see.
Has Master Yoda gained any insight
into whether or not this war will
Probing the dark side can be a
dangerous process. He could be in
seclusion for days... May The
Force Be With You.
I tried to put them in the order they seem likely to appear, but I could be off.
My take on the order:
Why couldn't we see the attack on the Senator?
Masking the future, is this disturbance in the force. In dark times nothing is what it appears. And only thoes who have turned to the Dark Side can sense the possibilities of the future. Only going through the Dark Side can we see.
This is my first post in this forum. I've been reading this one for a while now and theres's some good points here.
Here's my take on it:
Dark And Light can see the future with the Force.
The Jedi have issues in their everyday life, they have responsibilities and morals to uphold. While they may see the future, they realise that it isn't the "definate" future.
They know to create the future requires the interaction of millions of people and to not recognise everyones input into creating the future is to deny the people of the SW Universe their free will.
The Sith however only have one future in mind, their own. This leads to the "tunnel vision" mentioned earlier in the thread. They have no doubts about the future because in their opinion they are right and their will *is* the future.
For Yoda to forsee the future he has to dabble with the Dark Side to see what their plans are. When he does this, he has to ignore the future of the rest of the sentinent beings in the SW Universe. When he does this he will tread *very* close to the Dark Side of the Force, having to give up all sense of right and wrong.
This is why the Emperor doesn't forsee his downfall at Endor. When Vader offers Luke the chance to rule the galaxy as father and son, it is a *possibility* along with the line "Don't make me destroy you" When Vader is in the presence of Luke it seems he has the ability to see the "variable future" as opposed to the "tunnel vision"
Another example is "Sister, so you have a twin sister. If you will not turn to the Dark Side then perhaps she will" This may be just a taunt, but it is also another "possible future"
When Luke is on Dagobah and sees his vision he is Han and Leia will die. Yoda and Obi-Wan disagree, knowing that the future is always in motion. This is another example of Luke not being ready. He has the ability but is using the Dark Side, the quick and easy path to see the future while the Light Side has to take into account many more variables.
Only a Jedi Master, with a complete understanding and control of the Force can even begin to contemplate in seeing the future correctly. For the only true vision that can be seen is one of oppression and destruction with the foreteller in control of his and everyone elses future. Once a Jedi starts to look into what is beyond his rightful control, he starts to tread the Dark Path and forever will it dominate his destiny.
Dsource, good to have you on board!
Quality stuff, enjoy the boards.
Dsource, nicely done. A quality summary of much of what we've been discussing.
Only two Kouhons ehh.....
Thanx for the extra details PD....
I hope this has not been brought up before but I think it relates to this topic.
In a copy of the ROTJ script I have, there is some dialogue cut out of of the film.
It is where Ben and Luke are talking in the swamp
There is still good in him.
I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.
I can't do it, Ben.
You cannot escape your destiny.
I tried to stop him once. I couldn't do it.
Vader humbled you when first you met him, Luke...but that experience was part of your training. It taught you, among other things, the value of patience. Had you not been so impatitent to defeat Vader then, you could have finished your training here with Yoda. You would have been prepared.
But I had to help my friends.
BEN (grinning at Luke's indignation)
And did you help them? It was they who had to save you. You achieved little by rushing back prematurely, I fear.
LUKE (with sadness)
I found out Darth Vader was my father.
To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side - the side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door - for you, like your father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door, and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong and patient. And now, you must face Darth Vader again.
I can't kill my own father.
Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.
I think the Jedi have the ability to probe the Dark side as has been suggested in episode 2 and maybe Yoda was helping Luke use the dark side to gain the vision of his friends and when Luke decided to leave his training, Yoda feared that Luke would continue down the dark path. Anakin couldn't get past the dark side, and maybe Obi-wan helped Anakin use the dark side in Ep 2 or 3 and Anakin liked what he saw and stayed with it.
DS, this is what I have thinking for a while. It also puts new meaning to Obi-Wans line in ROTJ where he tells Luke:
OBI-WAN: Luke, you are gonna realize that a lot of the truths we cling to depend on a certain point of view.
Jedi and Sith can both forsee the future, but from THEIR point view. That is why Palp couldn't forsee Luke turning Anakin back and his own death. It doesn't happen in the future HE forsees, not in HIS point of view.
I think you are right when you say the Jedi have to take into account everyone else's point of view when looking into the future. And since the future is dynamic and is always in motion then only the near future is what they rely on. The distant future has way too many variables to in play to get an accurate picture.
Also, there's a darkside and a lightside future. Since each side can only see the future from their point of view, the jedi can't look into the darkside because they have to see it from their, the darkside's, point of view.
Speaking of theories, I have one regarding why the sith are so strong. Perhaps force users are simular to imortals in highlander. What I mean is maybe that the more users of that side existing, the less powerful they are. The fewer, the more powerful. Remember, only two sith lords at a time. This would make them extremely powerful. This also sheds a little more light on what Obi-Wan tells Vader in ANH: "If you strike me down, I shall only become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." That is probably why Obi and Yoda can merge with the force, they were the last few of the jedi, giving them enough power to do so.
IT is not in order!
sorry- just mixed up- but all around the same part of the film!