The PT is Anakin's Fall to the Dark Side, or is it?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by nyjet10, Apr 3, 2005.

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  1. nyjet10 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2005
    star 2
    Ive seen and read many posts about how Anakin fell to the darkside, how he betrayed the Jedi by going to the Emporers side. That ROTS is Anakins transformation to a life of evil. But this is untrue.

    The fact is throughout the PT Anakin has had a hard time dealing with change. He becomes attached very easily. When he was separated from his mother he was very upset. For at least 10 years he had dreams about her. He loved Padme after a few days. He is extremly emotional and he likes to hold on to things and be in control.

    The PT is not the story of Anakins fall but the world changing around Anakin with him standing still. Anakin was on one side the whole time, he never fell.

    The Republic was the good guy, they were a republic and the Jedi were on there side... everything is peachy. As things start to change, as the Jedi leave the Republic Anakin stays with it and the eventually Empire.

    Id like to hear what people have to say on this, reply at will
  2. Darth_Fred Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2004
    star 5
    He went from a little boy who wanted to help people to a monster that destroyed anyone who opposed him and enslaved the galaxy.
  3. TheForgottenJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 4
    Swing and a miss. Kinda obivous that the PT follows Anakin Skywalker and his journey to becoming Darth Vader.
  4. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    nyjet10 posted on 4/3/05 8:08pm
    The fact is throughout the PT Anakin has had a hard time dealing with change. He becomes attached very easily. When he was separated from his mother he was very upset. For at least 10 years he had dreams about her. He loved Padme after a few days. He is extremly emotional and he likes to hold on to things and be in control.

    The PT is not the story of Anakins fall but the world changing around Anakin with him standing still. Anakin was on one side the whole time, he never fell.

    The Republic was the good guy, they were a republic and the Jedi were on there side... everything is peachy. As things start to change, as the Jedi leave the Republic Anakin stays with it and the eventually Empire.

    Id like to hear what people have to say on this, reply at will
    />

    That's the most redundant and uninformed theory I've ever heart. Of course the PT is about Anakin's rise as a Jedi and his fall to evil./>/>
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It's not a theory. It's a point of view.
    I would say that it's both. Anakin remains on Palpatine's side and that's why he falls to the dark side.



    The dark side is treacherous
    /LM
  6. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    SoME be nice. I think there is merit to nyjet's theory. Specifically the statement that the world is changing around Anakin who desperately tries to cling to what he had and to stop the change. Sounds like a like of people in this world who cannot cope with change.

  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I agree. However, to stand still while everything else is evolving is a very active choice. You have to work hard not to change and even if you die trying, you can't stop changing. No matter how hard Anakin tries to stand still, he moves forward.
    At the same time, part of him is still where it was when he was 9 years old. That part is dying, because it won't breathe.
    This is what causes Anakin to eventually see himself as another person. The Anakin Skywalker that he knew is dead, so he must be someone else.
    What he does not see is that Anakin is still alive, but he is different now. Just like Obi-Wan is different from when they first met.



    Everyone changes
    /LM
  8. Avid_Prequels_Fan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2003
    star 2
    Interesting theory. For me it is definitely about the rise and fall of Anakin but it also true what you say about the fact that its the Jedi that move on and are out of touch with what is happening and Anakin stays with Palpatine and the Empire.
  9. Avid_Prequels_Fan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2003
    star 2
    Lars_Mull that was very well put and perceptive post.
  10. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yah I agree. I think one of the most interesting things about the PT is the lack of a black and white, good vs. evil type conflict. Good and evil are both present but much of the world is so gray. I love the more subtle nature of the story; the treachery and betrayal. It's great to me that we can find these different layers to Anakin's character and his fall. There certainly is no one way of looking at it and I believe that is the way Lucas intended it. Most good stories have multiple interpretations.

  11. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Very true. The real beauty of Star Wars becomes apparent when you start discussing it and you discover how many layers and possibilities of interpretation it has. Nothing is as simple as it appears upon first viewing.

    APF: Thank you :) It's amazing how you sometimes discover something about the story while you're writing a post!



    Star Wars is deeper
    /LM
  12. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Very well put, Lars_Muul. You know, the Jedi Order as a whole has the exact same problem. It's one of the great ironies of SW. It's extremely difficult to be a Jedi. You have to fight to stand upright in the hurricane that is human nature. There are no exceptions, and the second you let go it's over. That's why the dark side is so easy and seductive... just let go of that burden and it becomes easy to use the Force for your own ends, you don't even have to think about it. The Jedi turn into soliders and they can't retain that delicate balance. They don't realize they need to bend in the wind, instead of letting their rigidity break them in half. The Jedi have never had to bend before. Same exact thing with Anakin, he's always been able to get what he wants, he's always been the best, and when he doesn't, he does not possess the flexibility of mind to be able to deal with it. Their blind eye in the face of change, and their inability to purely hold on to their original convictions, destroys all of them in the end.
  13. Annadalla Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 1
    That was a good post topic, Lars_Muul! You really see that the PT isn't just a battle between one person and himself. I believe it's an extensive battle among a group of things.

    * Anakin's battle within himself
    * The Jedi's battle to keep their Order and the Force within the limits set by that Order.
    * The empire's struggle to gain control
    * Palpatine's struggle to win Anakin over
    * Obi-Wan's struggle to raise Anakin to Qui-gon's vision of how it should be.

    The last one is REALLY what I always considered to be a big focus of the PT. I mean, yes, It's about Anakin's journey to the Dark Side, but when you think about it, is it not also about Obi-Wan's promise to his dying master, and how he failed in that promise? Hmmm...

    Annadalla
  14. nyjet10 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2005
    star 2
    Guys sorry if its too wordy or uninformed but the point was that Anakin didn't do anything wrong, he just didn't do anything. Which by default meant joining the Empire and being part of the Empire meant killing the Jedi. Yes he did make a choice to stay, but there was no switching teams on Anakins part.
  15. danaldinho Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Anakin being the chosen one is like Christ, that is the theory. Yoda is like God(in the sense he is the good side to choose between)and Palpatine the Devil corrupting him, like when Jesus was in the desert.
  16. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I loathe it when people turn Anakin into Christ. Lucas has said point blank that he is not intended to be. As for Anakin doing nothing wrong, that is completely ridiculous. He makes plenty of wrong decisions. Lucas backs that one up too.

  17. roca_fella Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2005
    How is Anakin not Christ, Christ could have made wrong decision, opting for the devil in the desert, had he have done this he would have been like Anakin. Anakin could also be Neo.
  18. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Because Anakin is no where near perfect or God. He is simply a young man with a lot of power who has a lot of chioces to make. That does not make him Christ. He's just a traditional central/hero figure type.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  19. marajadebean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2005
    star 2
    Lars and Annadalla bring up some good points. Honestly, I see an even more subtle trend in the PT. What I have seen is the progression of straying from the Jedi codes. Think about it, Dooku, Qui-Gon (he does defy the Jedi Council in terms of Anakin), even Obi-Wan (though he for the most part is an example of someone in this line that doesn't stray)and of course Anakin have all shown rebelliousness. And look at something this way, Anakin is the only Jedi that Yoda did not train (based on PT only and my own assumptions, I haven't read any PT EU books so if someone can add something to this, by all means do). I just see the consistent pattern of the fraying of the fabric, kind of like how society does. Does this make sense? It's subtle but I still see it.
  20. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    What a surprise that Roca Fella agrees with danaldinho... after all they are the same user. So is Lord_Smith. Using socks to up a thread and fake discussion is a bad idea. Especially when you've been swearing, being vulgar and posting with socks while banned.

  21. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    ^^^ Yeah, that's pretty much bad idea #1. If you want to honestly debate, then do it. Don't try and stack the deck. The mods see all, and we really don't appreciate it.
  22. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Up!
    This was beginning to evolve into something interesting just before it died.

    The faults of Anakin are indeed mirrored by the faults of the Jedi, the Republic and everyone else in this trilogy. Anakin's story is representative of what happens to the galaxy at large. There's so much turmoil and conflict going on that doom is inevitable.

    Hmm, I don't really know what to write now, so please add something clever, guys! :)



    "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this!"
    /LM
  23. nyjet10 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2005
    star 2
    Exactly, Anakin is basically following the crowd. The tables have turned, the world has shifted, and Anakin is confussed about what to do. He finds a friend in Sidious and uses his help to become stronger and closer to the force than ever before. To the movie viewers it looks as though Anakin has fallen but in reality he has not changed his view point. He fights the Republics enemy and that happens to be the Jedi.
  24. hear+soul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 6
    Guys sorry if its too wordy or uninformed but the point was that Anakin didn't do anything wrong, he just didn't do anything.

    That couldn't be farther from the truth. Anakin changes in many ways:

    1- he falls in love
    2- he becomes a jedi
    3- he gets married
    4- he turns to the dark side
    5- he wipes out hundreds, at least

    How is that standing still? When he finds his way into the starship, he doesn't stay in the hanger, he goes and fights. When his mother dies, he kills the sand people. When padme pulls away, he chases her.

    Anakin is a dynamic character. period.

    Even Darth Vader is dynamic. Yes, for two movies he remains essentially the same, but he turns to the light side in ROTJ.

    These are conflicting points of view, not just different ones.

    If this was a story about the world changing and Anakin staying the same, he would have never fallen. He would have fought for what was good, no matter what his ultimate intentions were.

    Ep.1 Ankin is Innocent and fearful
    2- he becomes angry and passionate
    3- he becomes hateful and dark

    "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering."

    That IS the story of the PT. More specifically, that is the story of Anakin Skywalker.
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