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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph The rabid, stupid anti-spoiler culture (current Breaking Bad, GoT TV, and Hamlet spoilers within)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Guy, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    First off, I have to say I don't really mind being "spoiled" for things that have already been aired or released. I know it's kind of inevitable because other people than myself exist and they like discussing things they've read or seen. Plus, I don't usually consider the general plot points the important part. "Hank and Gomez die" doesn't begin to "ruin" the amazingness that is "Ozymandias" and "Robb Stark dies" doesn't do the Red Wedding justice. I would rather be "surprised" (though neither example was all that surprising), yes, but I wouldn't get upset by it if someone who had already witnessed these events wanted to talk about it.

    There are people who do get upset by it, though. A lot of people. Now, I'm not talking about the reactions to trolls who post future plot points in /r/gameofthrones. Getting annoyed/mad because of that is justified. I'm talking about people like a guy who responded to this tweet (OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE) by Dean Norris (the actor who plays Hank on Breaking Bad). This idiot follows an actor's Twitter feed and expects him not to comment on his own goddamned show. And judging by his other tweets of Daily Mail links and blabbing about Chelsea football, he really is that stupid and not a troll.

    This is not an isolated incident. There are comments on every pop culture blog whining about being spoiled. For example, last Sunday I read a Dexter review on the A.V. Club because the author's reviews and people's comments are far, far more entertaining than the show itself (though that's not saying much). He mentioned the Red Wedding. Sure enough, even though the A.V. Club has a relatively intelligent commentariat, someone whined. About being spoiled for a months-old episode on a blog about current television shows. Remember people getting upset about knowing the Olympics results before the events were broadcast in the United States? Yeah, it's stupid that NBC aired them delayed by a bajillion hours, but that's beside the point. People got upset about knowing the results of something that had already happened.

    This sort of thing appears to be rather new. Yes, people have always wanted "twists" kept secret-- though does knowing "IT WAS HIS SLED" ruin Citizen Kane? (No, the bad acting and pretentiousness did. [face_beatup]) But it was never to this sort of degree. No one felt entitled to be isolated from what happened on Twin Peaks the night before. Why is this? No, it's not the "ME ME ME generation," Time magazine. I think it'd be interesting to discuss. I have a few ideas, mostly to do with TV in particular:

    -You used to have to wait to discuss it with people "around the water cooler." The internet and social media have made it much easier to convey reactions immediately.

    -DVR's, DVD's, Hulu, Netflix, on-demand, and torrenting. It used to be that you had to watch something when it aired (or record it on VHS, but that was not nearly as prevalent as delayed DVR viewing) or wait a long time for a rerun. Now a ton of people watch a few hours to a few days... or a few years... later. Naturally, they don't want to know what happened, but they still visit Facebook and Twitter and Buzzfeed and reddit and expect their "friends" and strangers to accommodate them.

    -Increased serialization of TV. Unless it was a season finale or something, no one cared if they knew what happened on Friends before they saw it because it didn't matter in the next episode. Now it matters, at least for HBO-style dramatic TV.

    -The concept of "spoilers" and the internet-style attitude toward it (SPOILER ALERT) has entered the mainstream. I'm not sure how prevalent the word was before the internet and blogs and social media-- Wikipedia is unhelpful and I AM NOT OLD LIKE YOU.

    TL; DR I'm not summarizing for your lazy asses. This post is not that long. The list of side effects for your ritalin prescription is about ten times longer.
     
  2. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Hamlet dies in the end. The ghost may or may not be a product of his mental illness.
     
  3. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Other people see the ghost. [face_talk_hand]
     
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  4. Skywalker8921

    Skywalker8921 Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Oh, get this. Downton Abbey's new season is set to begin Sunday, and a couple of people on a UK based Facebook Page -UK, mind you - have basically said UK residents should not post spoilers because the rest of the world has to wait. As you can probably guess, those who want to avoid spoilers live outside the UK. I'm thinking, "HELLO! This is a UK fan page! UK residents are going to be discussing the episodes after they air! You can't expect them to keep mum just for you. Besides, you've already been told repeatedly by the page administrators to hide the page if you don't want to see spoilers!"

    Ticks me off no end. Some non UK residents complained about the two biggest plot twists of Series 3 being spoiled on Facebook, but I don't feel sorry for them. They were warned and didn't listen.
     
  5. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 1999
    Other people seeing the ghost may also be a product of his mental illness. The audience is seeing the play through the eyes of Hamlet's ongoing internal monologue with his own crazy.
     
  6. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I once accidentally spoiled a friend on the big twist in Knights of the Old Republic. That was 8 years ago. He still hasn't forgiven me.
     
  7. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Oh, that reminds me of another example that compelled me to post this thread. I've read people comment that although they prefer to game on PC, they're buying the 360 or PS3 versions of Grand Theft Auto V because they can't possibly avoid being spoiled in the 6-12 months it will probably take for the game to come out on PC. They spend $60 to avoid spoilers for a game whose plot only really matters at the end. lol
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I'm with you Guy. Especially on the GOT stuff - the books and therefore the plot, have been out there for years. But truthfully, with social media saturation, if you want the Facebooks and the Twitters you have to accept that you might see info you didn't want to hear or know. It's a trade off and a responsibility issue.

    I still can't believe the dinosaurs win in Westeros though.
     
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    We're talking about console gamers here. You know, the gamers for whom things are dumbed down..?
     
  10. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
  11. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    I'd love for Guy to post a similar thread in the 7NSA just for the **** storm it would create.
     
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  12. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    So do I. Every single time. You'd think that after 500 years I could catch a break. :(

    And just for the record, I kind of like spoilers. They give me a sense of how I should shape my expectations. I get kind of overwhelmed by super-suspenseful shows, so spoilers can help soften the emotional blow of intense drama. But then, I'm all old and pre-Millennial and stuff.
     
  13. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    OMGWTF SPOILERS.
     
  14. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Episode VII hasn't been released yet (though a whole forum dedicated to discussing something you ostensibly know nothing about is pretty funny). This thread, however, is a bit overboard.
     
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  15. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    I agree! However, I was in the minority opinion there.
     
  16. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I actually don't mind the sensitivity to "actual" spoilers like the ones you mentioned. While I agree with your premise that they shouldn't completely diminish our enjoyment of the work, I do think there's something to be said for people wanting to preserve the frame of mind the author intended for them when approaching a surprise or twist. While they don't have much business complaining, it's certainly a valid sentiment.

    What I have special scorn for is the tendency to define spoilers up. For instance, in responding to the first of the new Breaking Bad episodes, a person I know commented "that garage scene was incredible." This earned them a prolonged berating about how they'd ruined the whole show. Even though there was no mention of the characters, context, location, or meaning of any of it. The mere mention of a scene in a garage "ruined" the entire episode. Even more unreasonable, people label promotional posters as spoilers. Really? The information the creators are distributing to the general public about their product is going to ruin the story said creators want to tell? It's a hysterical, stupid attitude. While I can understand the desire to go in free of preconceptions, this is absolutely not the way to do it. It's just contrived and non-sensical.
     
  17. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    If you want to avoid spoilers for some things, you need to make a real effort. Like, not use social media or watch certain news programs. The first half of season 5 of breaking bad, we waited for the BluRay but this time we didn't as we knew how hard it was going to be.

    Most of my friends are careful, asking if people have seen it before discussing it. One things can think of is Star Trek Into Darkness. Among people who haven't seen it we just say it should have ended sooner.

    But there's no excuse for not knowing something like Julius Caesar is assassinated.

    I think people WANT to be offended sometimes.
     
  18. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Guy, you're criticizing examples of stupid people, that's not that hard.

    Judging by your OP, this isn't a criticism of anti-spoiler culture, it's a criticism of stupid people.

    As you said, getting mad about being spoiled on future material is justified.

    Personally, I find spoiler seeking behavior far more rabid, stupid, annoying and bizarre.
     
  19. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I use to be one to watch all the trailers, read all the articles, and look for all the pictures I could find. I slowly learned to appreciate not liking endings told to me, and then ultimately liking to not know what was going to happen in a film at all. I think TPM was the first movie where I purposely avoided information and details. It was easy to avoid a trailer in 1998-1999, and once I saw a picture of C-3PO in Entertainment Weekly, I wished I hadn't seen it and decided I didn't want to see anymore. Imagine not knowing about a double-bladed lightsaber until Darth Maul whipped it out. When people say "the ending has a twist", it sets my mind up to anticipate it. It happened with The Sixth Sense. I feel like I don't like Shutter Island because before seeing it I read a comment where someone gave it away. It was all I could think about from the very beginning, making for an uncomfortable two hours in the theater. Why do I avoid what I consider spoilers? Take existing movies for examples: (Spoilers...)
    I went into Hugo not knowing A THING but that Martin Scorsese directed it, and it was in 3D. No footage, no cast, no setting, absolutely nothing. I liked realizing after a while that I was looking at Ben Kingsley. I liked being curious about the thing. I liked not being familiar with the story, and discovering this new person and his contribution to cinema with the characters. Take Almost Famous. I had no idea this little younger version of the main character was going to skip ahead to the older version. When I heard the name of the band, Stillwater, I recognized it (there was a band actually called Stillwater) but didn't know the movie was fictionalized. SW movies: I don't want to know how many planets will be in the movie, because I don't want to sit there having seen three planets and think, "well, I guess I won't see Alderaan." I'm more interested when I don't know what is going to happen.
     
  20. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
  21. AAAAAH

    AAAAAH Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    dean norris handled that really well.
     
  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I can't stand spoilers but I know to avoid, say, a site for a TV show right after the season finale airs until I have seen the season finale.

    I also post in the Lit forum and while I haven't read many of the books, I just avoid certain threads, because expecting people to not discuss a book that has been out for 10 years simply because I haven't read it, would be pretty self-centered.

    On the other hand, the implosion caused by "no information on the Sequel Trilogy was given at D23!!!" was absurd. The movie is two years away, nobody is "owed" information simply due to being part of a fandom.
     
  23. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    That wasn't what got me, it was thefact they teased so,etching might be revealed and we never got anything.
     
  24. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    I learned the 'avoid the Internet at all costs' lesson well after some fanbrat spoiled a rather big spoiler for Torchwood: Children of Earth two weeks before it aired on BBCAmerica.
     
  25. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Internet culture is spoiler culture. The internet LOVES spoilers. It's bursting at the seams with nerds who want to know everything possible about a movie the moment a rumor exists that the movie might get made. The attitude toward spoilers is only backlash after at least a decade of rabid fans spreading every detail of everything ever on every page of the internet.

    The internet is such a spoiler culture that even SPOILER FREE places usually aren't even close to actually being spoiler free. It's only "spoiler free" to internet folks who have no idea what spoiler free is.

    Just look at the definition of spoiler in 7NSA. No seriously, go look it up right now. It's a total joke. In 7NSA, anything that comes from official sources, no matter how major the info is, is simply not a spoiler. Ridiculous. Guys, George Lucas, JJ Abrams, anyone working on the movie and anyone high up at LFL are literally unable to spoil their own movie according to 7NSA, even though they have all the info on it. The only things that are spoilers are unreliable sources that may not be true anyway. 7NSA isn't "no spoilers allowed", it's "slightly less spoilers allowed". 7SLSA. Needless to say, I haven't signed up. Where's the value to someone who is actually trying to avoid spoilers?

    I often see people saying "it's impossible to avoid information", that you "must be living in a cave" to avoid spoilers. That's just how ignorant they are. They say that because they have no idea that there are people out there that aren't like them, that don't surf the news sites every single day, that actually turn away or don't click when they see news on something they don't want to be spoiled on. They don't get it, because they're internet people and everyone on the internet wants spoilers and wants to talk about them, or so they think.


    You know what's really rabid? People who want to see and know everything about a movie or show before they even see it. By the time they actually watch the movie or show when it airs, they've basically seen every minute of it, thirty seconds or a few minutes at a time in trailers, previews, sneak peeks, etc. They already know the entire script, because they read it online. They've read the novelization. They know everything for certain, who lives and who dies, there are no surprises for them. And they can't shut the **** up about it. That's internet culture. It's rabid, it has ADHD and is off its medication.

    Seeking spoilers just comes off as a total lack of patience and restraint and I find it totally bizarre. Unfortunately for me (but not for people who love spoilers), the entertainment industry has fed this behavior like a poor single mother feeds her kids McDonalds.

    *Just some perspective from an anti-spoiler person, one who does not visit news sites (I've been to the tfn main page less than ten times total), doesn't click links to movies he doesn't want spoilers on, and generally skips over any mention of the movie anywhere. I usually manage to go completely unspoiled whenever I want. I do sometimes get annoyed when I get spoiled, especially in allegedly SPOILER FREE zones, but like all things on the internet I completely forget about it as soon as I get off. In the end, though I take steps to avoid spoilers by completely avoiding sites like reddit, Facebook and Twitter, (seriously, I've never even visited reddit or Facebook even once) I accept the possibility of being spoiled whenever I get on the internet, because spoilers can show up anywhere.

    If you want spoilers, that's cool. I don't want spoilers, I don't want to know everything about a movie or show before I actually sit down and watch it. I don't want to ruin your fun and stop you from talking about spoilers, just please do it in the appropriate places. There are million appropriate places on the internet for spoilers, be mindful of those who don't want to be spoiled, please. I am and will always be VERY appreciative of people who go through the effort to hide spoilers, even when they don't really have to. It's just a courtesy, but one I am thankful for.