The REAL objective of these movies.

Ok. There's this kid Anakin Skywalker and he's supposed to "bring balance to the Force." What does this mean? A lot of people seem to think it means he will get rid of the Sith or something like that. I don't think it's just that. Look at what he does.

10-year-old Anakin goes to be trained as a Jedi. Apparently he's pretty good at it. Then he turns to the darkside and plays some large role in killing off all of the jedi except for Ben Kenobi and Yoda obviously.

But Ben Kenobi is killed by Vader, so the only Jedi left is Yoda. Yoda is really old and is dying. Luke gets JUST ENOUGH training from these two yahoos to actually beat his old man. But Luke beats Vader JUST ENOUGH to beat some sense into him, not kill him. This makes Vader kill the Emperor, and then Vader croaks. Luke's all that's left, and he's really not a Jedi in the same sense that all the others were.

Does anybody see where I'm going with this?

Anakin brought "balance" by getting rid of the Sith and the Jedi. Why would Lucas want to do this? I thought the Jedi were GOOD GUYS!

NO! Well, they're not evil, it's just that their lifestyle and view of the world really doesn't work. You have to spend your whole life devoted to an abstract philosophy, you can't marry (that's why this is in this forum), and apparently you're supposed to keep a tight rein on your emotions as if they're a BAD thing! They deny themselves families and all sorts of other great human things! For what? A brown robe, a lightsaber and telekinesis! Good choice everybody! Way to go!

So, I think Lucas' motivation is to show that while the evil Sith and their "parasitic" nature is obviously no way to live, the Jedi and their austere life devoid of everything except the Force is no more valid. Lucas is a family man! He has kids and they're all he ever talks about! Why would he support a monk-like life where a family isn't an option? He isn't. In the Time magazine interview with Bill Moyers he said you don't have to blow up spaceships and get in lightsaber duels to be a hero. You just need good manners and you should care for the people close to you, your family.

So Anakin, who HAD a family in his mother (whom he abandoned) AND in his wife and kids (whom he abandoned) kills the Sith and the Jedi, making it possible for his son, Luke to lead a normal life free of all that Force-using monk warrior clap-trap. Luke can go and just live a normal life with his sister, her boyfriend, and all their other pals. That's why we have a FAMILY PORTRAIT shot at the end of ROTJ to conclude the story. After six movies of fighting and inhuman social groups (Sith and Jedi), we get the only real normal family in all of the movies. And I think that's what matters to Lucas.

 

Good God, that was a lot longer than I thought it would be. Sorry about that.
BOO-YAH!

 

Good point.

The black-and-white lines that *apparently* seperate good and evil are not always true.

There may be other lines that are truer.

 

BISMARCK, I hope you know what your name means.



!snap

 

I really like this idea. I'm not completely convinced that this is what Lucas means be "bringing balance to the force" but it sounds good. The Jedi in TPM are definetly portrayed as "holier than thou" stuck-up monks. Maybe that got that way because they DIDN'T have families.

 

Yeah, and it's not even necessarily an issue about good and evil. It's just that you can't grow very much as a human being if you deliberately avoid the big things in life, like love or marraige or friendships based on something besides a bizarre philosophical belief. The Jedi just sit in their temple and interact with their own kind! They might know a lot about the Force, but how would they handle an argument with a girlfriend at 3am? They would meditate for God's sake! And that's just not a realistic or valid response! You argue back and eventually you go to bed and one way or another the issue is settled. I just don't think being a monk is a responsible way to live. You learn things by experiencing things and dealing with them, not by avoiding them.

 

I understand what you're saying about the Jedi, but you have to understand what they're really doing.

They're giving up all of these things so that they can protect the galaxy, and follow a religion. Buddist monks do the same thing, other than the protect the galaxy part. Sure they wouldn't know how to handle an argument with a girlfriend at 3 am, but they're serving a greater purpose.

Girlfriends become kind of unimportant when you're talking about deep rooted religious beliefs and the protection of trillions of lives.



!snap

 

Oh yeah, Mr. !Snap-hiss, I'm well aware of what BISMARCK means! HA HA!

*gurgle gurgle*
*wap wap wap*
*phfffttttttt.....*
*"MY EYES!"*
*POW!!! "BISMARCK!"*

I also know all about the Cleveland Steamer, the Blumpkin, the Country Blumpkin, The Dirty Juanita, The Dirty Sanchez, and the Donkey Punch.

BOO-YAH!

(I hope nobody is offended by all this!)

 

I must say, originally I thought this post was going somewhere ridiculous, but I'm glad I kept reading.

I don't know if that's exactly what Lucas was intending conciously, but it's an interesting interpretation. The one thing I see as possibly flawed in it though is that you seemed to suggest toward the end that Vader was actually working toward the goal of giving Luke a fresh starting point.

Good food for thought though, I might have to come back to this thread when I have something worthwhile to say.

 

oh lord Bismark, you've opened up a can of worms now. I really had nothing to do with all of this... *runs away*



!snap

 

The Jedi are good, but they are also defenders of peace. And that sometimes means they have to kill a few Sith. For me, I have a tough time with the word "balance". The word implies equal or the same on both sides. At the end of ROTJ, this is supposedly the fulfilling of the prophecy. But with Luke remaining, the Jedi actually make the situation +1 in their favor. We know the Sith are dead, but by the true definition, maybe there's still one Sith lurking. Maybe the Emperor didn't die when he fell down the shaft

 

Giving up your life and sacrificing that you might study a religion or philosophy and protect the galaxy is a very noble idea, but I think the Jedi went too far. They developed these arrogant attitudes that made them incapable of protecting the people they were supposed to protect and the Empire came to power.

I think Buddhist or any other "monks" that sacrifice the things of a "normal" life are very humble and I think they do a great thing.

 

Sapient, what you have to understand is that the balance of which they speak isn't about phsycial numbers, but about the force itself.

The darkside isn't just evil and Sith. It's also about negative emotions and the lesser evils of the world. In that reguard the majority of the galaxy's population produces a darkside presence. Not as strong as say a Sith, but it adds up with all the people.

In the glory days of the Jedi, when there were a ton of them, the force was balanced. They were able to keep things in check. When Palp took over and instated the Empire, obviously things went dark.

The force is balanced when there are NO SITH. The Jedi can balance out the darkside projected by the minor evils of the world, but not the Sith.

Therefore Anakin got rid of the sith, bringing balance.



!snap

 

I've always interpreted balance to mean harmony, not an equal number.

 

I understand. But that is contradictory in and of itself as well. That's saying the Force, which is made up of all living things good or bad, is only balanced when the evil as represented by the Sith no longer exists. This contradicts the definition of the Force.

Darth Akuma, you are exactly right. And I know that is what Lucas means. But I agree with you that harmony much better defines what he's trying to explain. The words just don't flow as well. Balance means something entirely different than harmony.

 

I don't think it contradicts anything. It's just saying that the world is evil. If the world wern't so bad the Sith would be nessesarey to balance things out.


!snap

 

I'm saying that there's balance when there's no Sith AND no Jedi. They're opposite ends of one problem: fanaticism and whacked out priorities! Life is not about good vs. evil. Far more often it's about you vs. yourself. The Sith deal with this by giving in to everything they want. The Jedi just say "Oh, if I try something I might fail and become EVIL, so I won't do it at all!" Good job, avoid all possible problems and you'll have an easy life. That's why I say they're irresponsible. How about trying something hard, and if you succeed, great, and if you fail, well that sucks but you learn something about yourself.

And protecting trillions of people doesn't matter. "Oh, I can't get involved with you personally and care about you because I'm too busy caring about the galaxy!"

That's a dodge. I appreciate the things soldiers do. They protect people with families. But I don't have more respect for a tough soldier than I do for a good dad. I mean who's more important to a normal society and a normal life? The soldier or the dad? Soldiers protect families because families are what's important, and although you may give up on having a family, which is noble enough, you are by no means more important or noble than what you are protecting.

 

If I'm on a balanced diet, does it mean I eat the same abouts of all the food groups? NO!!!

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the number of Sith or Jedi. It has to do with the amount dark and light force in the galaxy. The Galaxy was already in decay by the time of TPM. "Like a large tree rotting from the inside". When Palpatine took over and created the Empire the galaxy spiraled even farther into darkness. Because of Anakin, they were able to get out of that spiral and back on the right track by the end of ROTJ. Thus instigating the domino effect that would lead to a balance of the yin and yang in the universe.

 

So all the baddies and all the monks snuff it to be replaced by something like a balanced but liberal minded bunch of force users?. Surely the end result would be horrifically close to "The Waltons"?.

 

Good night John-Boy!

 

Lucas has said time and again that the force is balanced when ONLY the Sith are destroyed. Killing the Jedi did not bring balance, it only threw the force off balance causing everything to go dark and all life as we know it slowly rotting away as the Sith uses the force for their own means.

He also said that both sides of the force (light and dark) can never come together or else everything will become grey thus mixing life with death which is why only one side of the force can be balanced and that's the Dark Side which is what Anakin did when he killed the Emperor.

 

I'm saying that there's balance when there's no Sith AND no Jedi.

The non forcer population creates a definitive dark side presance. The Jedi are needed to balance that.


!snap

 

Liken the term "balance" to your own body.

When it is in balance it works properly without any sickness or defects. When it is unbalance something is out of whack.

when you get a cold or virus, your body is out of balance. The same is said for the SW universe. The sith has infected it like a virus, thus throwing it out of balance.

The jedi are like your immune system in your body(but for the galaxy ),always ready to defend your body incase of desiese or virus, to put it back in balance.

That's what Anakin does by restoring the Jedi order in killing the life threating virus, Palpatine(who would've killed Luke and thus end the Jedi order altogether) restoring the universe in balance and leaving Luke to restore the Jedi order. Building up the immune system again.

What the Jedi sacrifice for the better good of the people of the universe is noble and not some self-righteous philosophy. They sit on that wall, so to speak, so those who can't fight for themselves don't have to.

In the OT is what happens with the Sith is in order of the univere, look at the decay, seperation of species,continual wars and genocide that takes place in them. That's not a philosophy, that's evil.

GL is dealing in ABSOLUTES here. In SW there are absolutes in what's right and wrong.

Light side of the force=Good

Dark side of the force=Bad.

It's that simple for this type of movie and not as complicated as philosophies, lifestyles and choices in our real world.

Which makes it such a great escape, even for a little while.

 

Evil will always exist. Good and evil have a balance. When evil overtakes and dominates the galaxy, then problems begin. There is no good left in the galaxy. The Alliance is the only source of good left and it is very weak. By killing Vader and Palpatine, balance is restored. Good regains it's place and evil is sent back to where it was. The Sith overtake the lightside and the Republic. With a new Jedi, the lightside and goodness reclaim their place in the grand scheme of things.