The Reason why George Lucas needs to make episodes 7-8-9

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by JediofAlcatraz, Jun 16, 2009.

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  1. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Considering the lack of the main antagonist from the previous six films, I don't really know how well a full on Sequel Trilogy would work out. As long as Lucas were still directing it, of course, I wouldn't mind-- I just don't figure what it would be.

    Without Palpatine as the main villainous figure in some form or another (mentioned in ANH as the Emperor, cameo'ed in ESB via-hologram, present throughout ROTJ and the PT), you lose the sense of continuity that strings the previous six films together. So what exactly would a ST be about, anyway? Luke Skywalker going on the Jedi equivalent of a Carlos Castaneda journey, a vision quest through the Force, getting high off of midichlorian-mushrooms? A "Star Wars" version of "Altered States"?

    I don't think there's really enough potential for an entire trilogy that hasn't already been explored and exhausted by the EU. Maybe there's some space for a couple of last SW movies-- maybe a prologue, showing us the downfall of the Sith (and don't gimme that crap about the "Knights of the Old Republic" games), and an epilogue about... well... something.

    At any rate, if Lucas ever did decide to make 7-8-9, I think it'd probably be motivated more by a desire to play with 3D technology than anything else. And again, I'd be okay with him doing a third trilogy, just as long as he doesn't bow to fanboy pressure and hand them off to another director.
  2. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    THANK YOU
    Can I have your permission to fanfic that?
  3. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Isn't asking for permission sorta against the whole philosophy of fanfiction?

    Whatever, man. What're you gonna call it? "Skywalkabout"?
  4. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Well said, JFP. ROTJ is the end of the story. Whatever plans Lucas may have once harbored were jettisoned in the '81-'83 period, when he decided to cram all the material that could very well have comprised four films into a single two-hour capper.

    Luke's completed training?
    The rescue of Han Solo?
    The search for the Other?
    The destruction of the Empire?
    The confrontation with the Emperor?
    The death/redemption of Darth Vader?

    Four films, easily. Wouldn't even be padded, like those Harry Potter flicks.

    There will not be a Sequel Trilogy.
  5. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Okay, there's one of the best arguments ever against the whole 7-8-9 idea. I can't stand it whenever people hold up J.K. Rowling as a paragon of children's literature. Do you really need seven Pynchon-sized books to tell a story that guys like Tolkien, Lewis or Pullman polished off with one? When your story is too long to fit comfortably into a one-volume edition, you're doing something wrong.

    Eh. Again, if Lucas wants to direct another trilogy, be my guest. I'll certainly be more eager to see it than the two-part film of "The Hobbit".
  6. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
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    We're both in agreement that there's no story left to tell.

    My question: Do you think Lucas was right to compress all of the remaining material into one film, and are you satisfied with the results?
  7. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Yes. Ask Zombie for the full story, but as I recall, ep.6 was originally supposed to end in Luke defeating Vader, which would kick off the 7-8-9 story of finding the "Other Skywalker", confronting the Emperor and Leia "becoming Queen of her people", or some such nonsense. I vastly prefer the way that Lucas recast it into the story of Vader's redemption, recognizing that he'd been the central figure of the past two episodes already, even if he wasn't always originally Luke's father.

    I will admit that Wookie warriors would've been cooler than Ewoks, and that Alan Hume's cinematography is pretty much phoned in (ESB is great not because of Irvin "Eyes of Laura Mars" Kershner, but because of Peter Suschitzky, perhaps the best living DP). Still, everything that works does so gangbusters.

    That being said, would I call it the "weakest" of the saga? I guess so, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I may not think "Rubber Soul" is quite as good as "Revolver", "Sgt. Pepper", "The White Album" or "Abbey Road", but it's still the freakin' Beatles!
  8. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

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    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    :eek:Consider it half-joke. I don't know anything about fanfic.
  9. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    star 6
    Ha! Skywalkabout...

    "Don't tell me what I can't do, or do not!"
  10. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

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    Apr 26, 2009
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    This is one of the most common misconceptions about the ST, & yet again, it needs to be pointed out that it is not true.

    I started a thread a while back to compile what actually is known about the trilogy of Eps VII-IX, little though there is:

    http://boards.theforce.net/the_star_wars_saga/b10456/30565196/p1/?76

    From these few precious tidbits, it can be gleaned that the Sequel Trilogy would have:
    - been set at least twenty years after ROTJ
    - dealt with the rebuilding of the Republic
    - dealt with moral and philosophical problems
    - been about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned

    None of this found its way into ROTJ, although the final point is touched on between Luke & Yoda, perhaps as one final way of leaving the option open for the ST to happen. Luke never actually 'passed on what he had learned'.

    What is true is that ROTJ was, most certainly, changed heavily when GL realised he didn't want to take the saga beyond Episode VI. The mysterious 'Other' turned out to be Leia, Luke did not "end up isolated & out on his own", as Gary Kurtz claimed would happen, and most importantly, it was all tied up in a neat little package, no open ending, no reason to go any further.

    Many of Gary Kurtz's claims are somewhat contradictory & relate to the earlier serial plan of the saga, he also brings up ideas which were only vague ideas tossed around in story meetings as being fundamental elements, such as Han dying, but I do think he's somewhat correct when he refers to the third film originally being conceived as being bittersweet in tone, leaving the way open for the ST. It's this that I believe was the most fundamental change - I don't think ROTJ could ever be described as 'bittersweet' overall.

    My own theory is that some of the ideas & material originally destined for the Sequel Trilogy found its way into the PT. A few minor notions may have also ended up in ROTJ. Specifically what, we'll probably never know.
    However, to claim that an entire trilogy set decades after ESB, dealing with the rebuilding of the Republic, was all stufffed into the plot of ROTJ is completely & utterly untrue.
  11. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    You just said what I was about to say :)
  12. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Yep. Even post-ROTJ, Lucas talked about a ST, although never concretely what the story was about(beyond the "it will be more philosophical and deal with moral issues").

    The ST has the potential for the best villain of the entire series. One much more complex and even sorta agreeable, than the Snidely whiplash villains of the rest of the saga.

  13. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Better than Vader (who is one of the most popular villains in movie history) or the Emperor? I doubt it.

    And a new and better villain would diminish the importance of the Emperor and his big revenge (which is the main plot of the Saga).
  14. shanerjedi Jedi Master

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    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    How?
  15. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Sidious is synonymous with the power of the dark side. He's like the devil in the new testament. If you can get rid of him, there isn't supposed to be any more evil. It would be like having a sequel to the book of Revelation.

    EDIT: This is the reason I like Dark Empire. It does a very good job of handling Palpatine's role as the ultimate evil, and not just any old bad guy. Luke doesn't just give into his anger, the Emperor has to be there to seduce him.
  16. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Funny that since Lucas thought there was enough of a sequel story to keep the idea with him for over a decade post-ROTJ.
  17. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

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    Jul 28, 2005
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    Well, a sequel trilogy about "passing on what you've learned" doesn't have to have a villain at all. And somehow I doubt it would have.
  18. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    The Emperor was already diminished by his portrayal in the PT...:p
  19. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    The whole "ST compressed into ROTJ" isn't accurate. The only thing that got carried into it was the resolution of the "Other", but who is to say that wasn't going to be part of ROTJ anyway. The only consequence is that since it is Leia, the plot point is left sort of dead. But if the intention was to set up a protoge of Luke--which I think is what it was--there's no reason why you couldn't still have that in a ST, and in fact all indication is that this was still going to happen. Vader and the Emperor seemed to have always been killed off in Episode VI. The ST was always set twenty years after ROTJ dealing with the aftermath of the Empire and re-establishment of the Republic. A lot less was changed than has been surmised.
  20. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    I agree. The PT portrayal of a cunning Machiavellian who forces his prey to do all the wrong things for the right reasons stands in contrast to the incessantly-cackling ROTJ Snow White analogue, whose idea of a soul-rending temptation was to spew ten thousand variations of "Give into your hate".

    Boy, Lucas sure ruined that character. Why did he have to make him interesting?
  21. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Eggs plain?
  22. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, you'd almost think Star Wars was supposed to be some sort of "fairy tale" or something.;)

    To clarify, though - I've no real problem with Palpy the manipulator. But from the moment he grabs his 'saber in RotS I can't stand him. From the bad make-up to the stupid vocal manipulation in post to a performance that makes the RotJ version seem underplayed and subtle in comparison, it's just no good.
  23. Gary_Buchenara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2009
    star 3
    I thought The Emperor was great in TPM and AOTC, but degenerated into a bit of a cackling Pantomime ham in ROTS. I'm not sure who suffered more from being seen in action with a lightsabre - him or Yoda.
  24. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Because if you look at the three trilogies as one big Saga, the final climax would have nothing to do with the Emperor and Vader. The climax is always the culmination of the whole story, and it is there where the true meaning of everything becomes clear. If you don't have the Emperor in the climax, you are diminishing his importance as the ultimate villain from 1-6.

    For example, in Harry Potter, is it possible to have new books dealing with a completely new (and better of course) villain, without diminishing the importance of Voldemort and the existing books?

    Palpatine is the ultimate bad guy, pure evilness, he is the devil himself. And IMO, it is impossible to have a more interesting bad guy (within the Star Wars universe).
  25. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    [image=http://thechaly.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/vader.jpg]
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