The Rebel Flag: Spitting in the Face of Federal Tyranny

as a poor bastard i have managed to travel overseas many times in my young life. It is not as expensive as you think. Most americans dont care about the rest of their world and their idea of culture is goingto universal city.

 

I think many American's hate the UN for one reason. America isn't the boss.

I dislike the UN for other reasons. First and foremost, they fail to act, alot. Only twice has there been a good UN coalition formed to defeat "a great evil" fighting the North Koreans where the over confident, over supplied UN troops were overran by the Chinese and North Koreans; and nearly half a century later when Iraq invaded Kuwait.

Personally I belive there are certain unalienable rights such as the freedom of religion. No nation has a right to dictate any religion or no religion, such as China, North Korea and the Taliban. And other laws as such.

And to the above if its alright for these nations to dictate in a Talibanese manner, and the UN should be the ones to guarantee this, not the United States or any European nation.

 

I agree with you on why americans hate the un, jedi xen. I also kind of agree with you on the rproblems of the UN.
And freedom of religion is an offshoot of freedom of speech and freedom vs. tyranny. This is not just the EU's or the US's problem, it is the worlds. That is why we need the UN. Though it hasnt alwasy done the right thing it has provided much humanitarian aid throughout the world.

 

"The most telling stat is only something like 6% of americans own passports. It just goes to show you how many americans feel about the rest of the world."

Sleazo, as strong as your loathing for other Americans may be, I think this belongs over in the 'why do they hate us' thread.

By the way, 16% of Americans had passports in 1995 based on figures on passports issued 1985-95. And the State Dept issued a record 7 Million in 1997 alone, and the dollar has been unusually strong, so that number is probably conservative.

Not that such a small number has anything to do with the geographic isolation of the US, the amount of vacation we receive, and the geographic and cultural diversity within the United States. Or does it?


(of course, I will agree with you when you say Americans are 'conditioned' not to travel as much, especially to countries outside of England, Canada and Mexico. It is something that hasn't caught fire in American culture the way it has in Canada, Australia, NZ or Europe over the past 40 years)



I also strenuously disagree with the points DAgger made about the American Revolution. I, for one, am glad we did not have to go through the belated decolonization process that Canada underwent, and believe that the time Independent has helped us develop as a nation and a people more distinctly...and, I think, for the better. The example of the US certainly had an impact on hastening decolonization in the British Empire, and the experiment in Federal Republicanism that preceded even the French Revolution is an important historical touchstone.

 

"as a poor bastard i have managed to travel overseas many times in my young life. It is not as expensive as you think. Most americans dont care about the rest of their world and their idea of culture is goingto universal city. "

Do you do anything but bash Americans? And yes, it is very expensive for Americans to travel. I'll show you my pricelist from the last time I tried to travel. It is not easy for us to just pick up and leave as soon as we can afford to. Besides our own country is so divers, going to the other side of it is almost like traveling to another country.(That reminds me: I need to work out this year's roadtrip)

And what the hell is universal city?

Also, I live in NYC, the world comes to me.

And we have lots of reasons to dislike the UN. Not because we aren't incharge, but because we have a large share of responsibility, yet are on the same level as countries like Monte Carlo and Luxemburg. Also, we were removed from the Human Rights Council in favor of China. CHINA!!!! And the UN screws us over plenty of times(Somolia).

Its not that we hate the UN, we hate how it is run.

 

No i do other things besides bash americans, i also enjoy bashing christians


There are many things to bash about america, sorry. As for how cheap travel is, the last time i flew to Europe I paid $245 round trip from Newark airport to Amsterdam.

Red Seven--The attitude is what i am talking about, not the exact statistics. People in america are not encouraged to see what is out there, and it is a shame. My point is that americans are very self centered, as is the Govt, which is why we are removed from the human rights council.

And before you go attacking me about how the US champions human rights, I ask you one question, what about the Sudan? The Sudan is just one of the places in this world that we never hear about and the US does very little for. It seems to me human rights generally start with white people or are used for political(stopping the advance of communism) or the economic(our butt buddy oil monger terrorist sponsoring Saudis)

 

"And before you go attacking me about how the US champions human rights, I ask you one question, what about the Sudan? The Sudan is just one of the places in this world that we never hear about and the US does very little for. It seems to me human rights generally start with white people or are used for political(stopping the advance of communism) or the economic(our butt buddy oil monger terrorist sponsoring Saudis) "

Well, what has the UN done about it? Nothing. Doesn't that seem a little hypocritical.

As for our government looking out for our interests: good. That is their job. Not to protect other people. If public opinion tells them to, then so be it.

You know why all those Euopean countries enter the EU? To protect their interests. Don't give me any garbage about their love of unity.

Everything you accused the US of, the rest of the world is just as guilty.

 

This is the wrong thread for this but

Of course european countries join th eEU b/c of their own intrests, i hav enever said otherwise. And the UN has done alot for the Sudan, trying to protect peoples human rights. The US has done virtually nothing. My problem is when people start trying to say that the US is this great nation that helps all other countries, when all that is done is for the sake of Politicians and Corporations.
Europe has its problems too, and i am not saying that any of their Governments are perfect. I am simply pointing out reasons why the US and its citizens are looked down upon. The actions of our Govt and our people generally show little to no intrest in any other country or people but our own.

 

In other words, we act like everybody else in the world. They look down on us because they are a bunch of hypocrites.

 

Actually, if Americans admitted that their country is just like the rest of the world, and not some super-altruistic divine nation, then people would probably feel differently.

 

I think we need to get back on topic. The UN doesn't have much to do with the Rebel flag.

 

The problem is, we are expected to be some super altruistic divine nation, and policeman to the world. Then, when we aren't willing to live up to their standards and act like they do, they cry bloody murder. Do you know how much crap Europe does and then buries? Look into DeBeers and the war in Sierra Leonne. This is a modern day massacre funded by European currency and weapons. The hell with them and their "holier than thou" attitudes.

 

well me being from the rebel areas and i am not raceist if that is what u tink and most rebels if that is what you call them hear were mostly farmers fighting for there farms and robert E.lee did not care about eny thing that the "rebels" wanted to do if the "rebels" won the war he was just loyal to his state and so the rebel flag has more then just racest meanings it also has means if you look from the "rebels"point of looking at it.it also stands for much more the raceist belefs

 

Why is this even an issue? Just don't fly it anymore. You lost. Its been 135 years. Let it go.

I'm not talking about individuals, if you want to paint one on your car, fine. But, why does it fly outside of the state capitol in south carolina? As a yank, I find it a bit insulting that a flag that symbols a time of conflict and civil war still flies on an official building. Are you part of the USA? Yes. Do you still want to be a part of the USA? Then take it down.

 

Do you still want to be a part of the USA?

Do you remember a little thing called Reconstruction when the States were forced, at gunpoint to reenter the Union? Of course we didn't want to be a part of the USA that was why we seceded to begin with.

 

Yeah, but you lost the war. And you have no standing army. Not only that, but you reap the same benefits each and every other American does.

And when the Union could have really stuck it to the South, we helped you oout. Ever hear of the Reconstruction? Oh, you have? Then you remember how the Union practically rebuilt the South.

Life in the USA ain't so bad. You didn't fight in the war your parents didn't, their parents didn't and their parents didn't. The flag is as useless as the USSR flag.

 

You helped us out...

By placing us under military occupation. Forcing us to live under one form of Reconstruction, but then when we had just met the requirements intended by Lincoln and then Johnson after Abe's death, Congress decides, No, the South has not suffered enough. Let's make them pay more. Forced the Southern states to craft new constitutions. Declared that anyone who owned more that $20,000 worth of property was disenfranchised until pardoned by the president. Gave military governors the right to remove anyone from office, even if they were duly elected for any reason. The railroads had to be rebuilt due to Sherman's destruction of them. Farms had to be rebuilt because of the scorched earth philosophy.

So yeah, I guess you did help us out, you helped us fix everything that the Yankees had destroyed in the first place.

 

The Confederacy is a conquered and dead government, their people now forcable made into Americans over the past century and change. Their flag has no purpose except to remind us of a nation that couldn't defeat a bunch of New England pansies.

 

Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

"So yeah, I guess you did help us out, you helped us fix everything that the Yankees had destroyed in the first place. "

Aww, gee. Your stuff got broke because you started a war? Guess what, next time, don't pick a fight if you can't handle the consequences. To the victor go the spoils.

And besides, you act like you don't benfit from being part of the USA.

 

Sure we benefit from being in the union, just as the north benefits from just Texas being in the union. 61% of all petroleum refining is done in Texas alone. People complain about how gas is expensive now, imagine if you had to pay an additional import tax on it.


And we did not pick a fight with the Union, we left peacefully. It was the North that provoked the war.

 

And we did not pick a fight with the Union, we left peacefully. It was the North that provoked the war.

I tend to remember a thing called Fort Sumpter, lemme explain Ft Sumpter to you. A union held fort in Charleston Harbor, attacked unprovoked by the southerners. Why was it provoked? Lincoln had two choices he could have built an army or he could have used that money to keep Virginia in the Union through campaigning.
Had Virginia remained in the Union, then General's Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson would have led the Northern Army against the South, and with out them the South would have lost the war in 6 weeks (exaggerated).

The Confederacy arrogantly chose Richmond as its nations capital in 1861 about a month before Virginia voted to join the CSA. Why? To help lure Virginia to its cause. Two counts of war the Confederacy used against the United States over Virginia. Thats like the United States moving its capital to Toronto to try and lure Canada into a Union, then attacking Britain to make it look like the British are barbarians.

And quit talking about the Confederacy as "we" you are not a Confederate anymore than the great grandson of an Irish immigrant is an Irishman. There is no ethnic division between the descendents of the people in the CSA and the people in the North. This is not the middle east, the United States is not Turkey and the southerners are not Kurds. You are the same ancestory as the people in the North.

Sherman was wrong for burning the plantations, congress was wrong for its actions, but as that was over a century ago you cannot look at it as now. Its like looking at Germany and calling them Nazi's because 65 years ago they were.

Fly the southern cross, let it wave, anybody who tells you to take it down obviously doesnt believe in free speech and would like to wipe their butts with the constitution. The southern cross has come to symbolize southern unity, yes. No different than the pine-tree flag has come to represent New England or Malcolms "X" has come to symbolize black unity. Unless everybody is willing to sacrafice everything that might be offensive to someone else, then nothing should be sacraficed, but rather respected.

 

And quit talking about the Confederacy as "we" you are not a Confederate anymore than the great grandson of an Irish immigrant is an Irishman. There is no ethnic division between the descendents of the people in the CSA and the people in the North. This is not the middle east, the United States is not Turkey and the southerners are not Kurds. You are the same ancestory as the people in the North.

Sure, I won't talk about being a member of the Confederacy anymore. Heaven forbid I offended anyone. We don't want those outside of the US to think that we are all of one mind on every single issue, now do we? We are just one happy nation, and when a sizable portion of the states in the union decides they do not agree with the course of the nation the federal government pounds them into submission and tells them to shut the **** up and sit down.

 

I read through this thread at first interested, then angry, then dissapointed.

Because I am new here, I'm not going to respond to anything directly here. I don't want to make people mad, and frankly, I'd rather talk about walls. I will say this:

I have never seen more stereotypical crap.

The North was just as racist as the South.

Almost all Americans (me being one of them) want to travel to another country, but never get the chance to. Sleazo, with a country as large as ours, many people don't even get to see it, let alone travel around the world.

[Most] Americans do not have the mentality that everybody else appears to think we have towards the rest of the world.

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I'm done with this thread. I just had to get this off my chest. Believe the things I said or not, that is what I know to be true.

 

"when a sizable portion of the states in the union decides they do not agree with the course of the nation the federal government pounds them into submission and tells them to shut the **** up and sit down. "

THE CONFEDERATES VIOLATED A CLAUSE IN THE CONSTITUTION. Maybe 3 more. That is treason. The federal government better say "Shut the **** up and sit down."

Second, the part about treason is listed before free speech, so technically, it takes pecedence.